8 replies to this topic

[Fakman87]

Hey guys,

 

At the moment I am taking 100mg of 5-htp before bed and 10mg of noopept when I wake up. Apart from that I occasionally take 1g of ALCAR and 1g of l-tyrosine. What else would you guys recommend to add to this or is what I'm taking sufficient?

 

I'm studying computer science at the moment and am quite tired a lot and struggling at times to focus and learn.

 

Thanks

[β-Endorphin]

I would advise you to replace the 5-htp with L-tryptophan, as L-tryptophan has much less of a risk of heart damage compared to 5-htp, but has a similar effect on brain serotonin levels. You could also try to add a source of choline(CDP-Choline, Alpha-GPC, choline itself etc.) to enhance noopept effects.

 

Just curious, what do you mean by a "basic stack". Do you want a stack that has only a few items? If you're open to any supplements, you could look in to DAergic and NErgic stuff, like Ginkgo biloba(A MAO-A and MAO-B Inhibitor, and a dopamine and Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor). Oregano extract seems to also inhibit reuptake of monoamines and prevent breakdown. Rhodiola Rosea is also a promising herb that not only inhibits both MAO-A and MAO-B, but also acts as a acetylcholinesterase inhibitor(Which increases acetylcholine levels)

 

Introducing a low dose of a DAergic stimulant, like caffeine/coffee, would be a good idea to give a little boost to the other nootropics' effectiveness. 

 

Most of all, unless you have a sleep disorder or have CFS, sleep will be your best bet in feeling energized and awake. Make sure you get at the absolute minimum 8 hours of sleep, with 9 hours being your goal. Of course I understand in University this may not always be an option, just make sure you always rest thoroughly after a period of sleep deprivation.

 

 

 

[Fakman87]

Thanks! Is there a big risk of heart damage with 5-htp? I was taking melatonin for 6 months instead of 5-htp, should I return to that?

 

By basic stack I guess I mean one that I could take most days without much changing. I've read some crazy experiments and stacks in here and I like the idea of just taking 4 or 5 nootropics and leaving it at that. I'm looking for the ones with the most bang for their buck, in a pareto principle kind of way.

[β-Endorphin]

Thanks! Is there a big risk of heart damage with 5-htp? I was taking melatonin for 6 months instead of 5-htp, should I return to that?

 

By basic stack I guess I mean one that I could take most days without much changing. I've read some crazy experiments and stacks in here and I like the idea of just taking 4 or 5 nootropics and leaving it at that. I'm looking for the ones with the most bang for their buck, in a pareto principle kind of way.

You should replace 5-htp with L-tryptophan, its one step before it in the Serotonin-Melatonin Synthesis ladder and is much safer for the heart. For reference, this is the serotonin-melatonin synthesis ladder:

L-tryptophan-->5-htp-->Serotonin-->Melatonin

L-tryptophan is transported to the brain, once inside the brain it is converted to 5-htp, which is then converted to Serotonin. At nighttime Serotonin is broken down into Melatonin.

So L-tryptophan gives you 5-htp, Serotonin and Melatonin. Versus Melatonin that just gives you, well, Melatonin.

 

For a basic stack(4-5 items you can take everyday), I would recommend Rhodiola Rosea + Low Dose L-tyrosine in the morning for Dopamine/Norepinephrine, Noopept + A Choline Source(CDP-Choline, Alpha-GPC, Choline itself etc.) in the morning for Acetylcholine and L-tryptophan at night for Serotonin and Melatonin. If you want you can also throw in a low dose dopaminergic stimulant like Caffeine. Just make sure to take it occasionally, to prevent tolerance. Only use it during times when you need a boost, like when you have a 48 hour assignment or something like that.

 

If you have the money you can also throw in L-theanine, great relaxant and antidepressant, but doesn't really give any benefits in terms of focus and energy. It can be used to treat anxiety and "smooth over" the jitteriness/anxiety that stimulants produce as side effects.

 

Noopept functions like racetams and their are many racetams, so if noopept isn't working for you, take a look at Piracetam, Aniracetam, Phenylpiracetam and the other racetams .

 

There are other herbs you can take as well like Gingko Biloba, Bacopa Monnieri and Lions Mane if you have the money, but in terms of focus/concentration and energy, I think the above supplements should give you plenty bang for your buck.

[Fakman87]

Wow thanks for that detailed reply, I really appreciate it. Just have a few more questions for you if that's ok.

I saw 500mg l-tryptophan, is that a good dose to take at night? Also should I stop taking Alcar and ala with the l-tyrosine?

I drink coffee most days, should I stop this?

Thanks!

[β-Endorphin]

Wow thanks for that detailed reply, I really appreciate it. Just have a few more questions for you if that's ok.

I saw 500mg l-tryptophan, is that a good dose to take at night? Also should I stop taking Alcar and ala with the l-tyrosine?

I drink coffee most days, should I stop this?

Thanks!

A good dose of L-tryptophan is really a subjective thing, I wouldn't recommend taking more than 2 grams a day, but below that, you can play with the dosages. 500 mg is a good starting dose, you can increase it slowly as you see fit though. Of course, as long as their are no side effects.

ALCAR is fine to take, and seems to improve attention in kids with ADHD(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12213433), it just has no evidence proving it can improve focus and awakeness in healthy people, which is why I didn't include it in the "most bang for your buck" list, but you can take it if you have some. Interactions aren't really an issue unless you have some side effects, then obviously stop taking it.

 

You can continue drinking coffee everyday, coffee is not bad for you and actually has some long term health benefits. What I was reffering too was that the nootropic and focus enhancing properties of coffee go away really quickly with tolerance, so if your taking it for that purpose you should really only use it occasionally so their is no tolerance. However their is no issue with you taking it everyday for other reasons.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions you may have, so ask away!

Edited by β-Endorphin, 05 March 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[Fakman87]

Cool thanks very much. From your advice I've planned the following regime:

 

Morning: 500mg Rhodiola Rosea with 500mg l-tyrosine  

               10mg Noopept with 300mg Alpha GPC

Night: 500mg l-tryptophan

 

Do these doses look ok? Also should I take all 4 of the morning supplements together or take a break between the first 2 and second 2? I have a fairly decent amount of ginkgo biloba, alpha lipoic acid and alcar from the past, if I was to incorporate these should i take them in the morning as well?

 

When I first started getting interested in nootropics I read that taking alpha lipoic acid was important due to its antioxidant effects but I'm not sure if this is true. Thanks!

 

[β-Endorphin]

Cool thanks very much. From your advice I've planned the following regime:

 

Morning: 500mg Rhodiola Rosea with 500mg l-tyrosine  

               10mg Noopept with 300mg Alpha GPC

Night: 500mg l-tryptophan

 

Do these doses look ok? Also should I take all 4 of the morning supplements together or take a break between the first 2 and second 2? I have a fairly decent amount of ginkgo biloba, alpha lipoic acid and alcar from the past, if I was to incorporate these should i take them in the morning as well?

 

When I first started getting interested in nootropics I read that taking alpha lipoic acid was important due to its antioxidant effects but I'm not sure if this is true. Thanks!

Alpha lipoic acid is an antioxidant for general health, but It probably won't help you in enhancing focus and energy. 

I would recommend you take the rhodiola/l-tyrosine and Noopept/Alpha GPC an hour apart, so that they don't compete for absorption into the brain 

Other than that, its up to you. Play around with the dosages until you find what works for you, or until you find this stack doesn't work and you have to add in something extra.

The l-tryptophan looks fine, just be wary that L-tryptophan/5-htp can produce vivid dreams if taken before bed if you don't like that sort of stuff.

[Fakman87]

Thanks very much endorphin! One more thing, should I cycle all of these or just the noopept? When I was taking alcar, l-tyrosine and 5-htp I was taking them monday to friday and taking a break on weekends.