8 replies to this topic

[Bulbasaur]

[Please ignore the "Editing a post in" in the the title, I copy/pasted the title from an identical posting in the wrong forum] 

 

I've been prescribed Adderall since April of last year, I'm weary of the long term physical and neurological effects for some time and have long since decided that I cannot remain on it daily forever, the intestinal side effects have now become overbearing to the point that I think I need to stop taking amphetamines sooner than expected. 

 

I'll list all of the supplements I take daily and the side effect I take them for, then will elaborate on the specific effects of Adderall that seem unsurmountable and what I'm looking for a in a replacement drug/supplement regimen. tl,dr further down. 

 

 

[format: Supplement - Side Effect - Supposed Efficacy

 

1(symptoms made worse)-3(No change)-10(necessary for normal functioning)rating of dependency/efficacy]

 

[>] = taken before starting Adderall

 

-Chelated Magnesium - Build up of tolerance, muscle cramp - I've haven't had to increase my dose in months(increasing it no longer has feel good effects so there is no point, however the effects are definitely sedated compared to the first 2-4 months of daily use)

7/10

 

-5HTP -[>]Depression- I actually can't remember when I first started taking 5HTP, but I stopped a month or so ago and became very depressed, despite the Adderall, within days of starting 5HTP, my mood improved dramatically

9/10

 

-CDP Choline-Sporadic mood effects of Adderall-Honestly I can't feel a definitive difference but I don't feel worse, I could probably stop no problem

3/10

 

-L-Glutamine-I'd just read a lot of good things about it taken in conjunction with Adderall-Prevents me from feeling suicidal on off days, massive improvement, negligible effects on Adderall days

9/10

 

-Potassium Citrate-Digestion and muscle cramping-Massive improvement in digestion, immediately relieves a certain kind of stomach pain(hard to explain, I have many unique stomach pains and this stopped one of them), eliminated all cramping, significantly reduced muscle spams, and improved blood circulation in body peripheries(fingers, toes) 

10/10

 

-Soluble Fiber-Stringy, forced diarrhea and constipation-Reduces stomach gurgles, does not really stimulate bowel movements, very had to discern when and how much to take

6/10

 

-Vitamin C(as Ascorbic Acid)-Insomnia-definitely seems to speed the comedown process, I feel better when taking it in the morning(not with Adderall)

7/10

 

-Sodium Bicarbonate-Decreased effects of Adderall-Absolutely increases efficacy of Adderall, but has unpredictable effects on stomach, sometimes stimulates bowel movements following constipation(good thing), sometimes produces bloating

7/10

 

-Cetrizine-Prostate inflammation from Adderall-Only taken for a few days, big improvement so far, no longer have feeling of bloated, beating(like a pulse) prostate on my left side, so longer experience pain urinating, penis no longer perpetually shrivlled, i was very surprised at how well this has worked

10/10

 

-L-Theanine-Speedy agitated feeling-Relaxes me but also seems to make me a little anti-social, I don't measure the dose and abuse it at times, definitely eases the Adderall comedown but I don't need it

7/10

 

-B12(methylcobalamin)-Honestly can't remember, read it was good in conjunction with Adderall-I remember thinking it helped early on, so much anymore, haven't taken a break to know if it helps or not 

3/10

 

-Zinc Picolinate-[>]Weak immune system-I used to get sick nearly every year with no exceptions, I haven't been sick in the past 2 years and cold like symptoms clear with a good nights rest

10/10

 

-Biotin probiotic-Variable digestion issues-I no longer have a sick bloated feeling after dinner each night, big improvement, however my intestines don't seem to empty any quicker

10/10

 

-Pancreatin(pancreatic enzymes)-Feeling of undigested food in stomach, particularly poor digestion of meat-Basically the same as Biotin, but more variable, some days I seem to need it, other no so much

8/10

 

The following I take or have taken in the past, they aren't listed as I don't believe they have impacted Adderrall efficacy or side effects in any significant way:

 

Fish Oil, Diphenhydramine, Glucosamine w/MSM,Electrolye replacement pills, Selenium Beatine HCL

 

Thank you to anyone that has made it this far, with the listed supplements I have surmounted every side effect from Adderall except for a certain class of intestinal pain. I'll eat(I've simplified what I eat on Adderall, sample meal: rice protein shake with mango, greek yogurt, some of the above supplements, almond/rice milk, maple syrup + rice cereal w/almond milk, raisins, and walnuts or peanut butter, sometimes with pancreatin and a probiotic, sometimes not, doesn't seem to make a difference anymore), maybe have a 'norma' bowel movement, feel fantastic for 3-7 minutes, then experience a lot of bloating and stomach gurgling(it likes I'm cleared, then something 'moves' down the digestive tract and causes more new irritation),the feeling of gas(But not being able to produce any or not nearly enough) often so bad, that despite the Adderall, I'll have to lie down for 15-60 minutes as the discomfort prevents from doing anything productive.

 

Exercise(I hit a punching bag) temporarily quells the spasms but then it starts after exercising. This one side effect is killing my productivity and my mood. When I try to take a day off of Adderall I get constipated until I take Adderall, and eventually the same stomach problems occur. Something I found interesting is that when I smoke weed on off days, the stomach problems cease(I remain constipated, but comfortable), when I smoke weed when having the problems and when on Adderall the bloating becomes much worse for hours.

 

I have taken caffeine less than three times a week for the past month(before that it was probably twice daily), I often end up binge eating to force a bowel movement, sometimes this helps temporarily. 

 

My latest theory as to the cause is the Adderall causing pelvic spams, something to do with my sympathetic nervous system not being able to function with or without Adderall anymore, it functions minimally when off Adderall, and spastically when on it. I haven't looked too much into this yet as it seems the only answer will be to discontinue using stimulants

 

 

tl,dr: Adderall is impairing digestion to the point that the after effects of eating anything is physically crippling, even when I eat simple foods(rice, high glucose foods), I am not able to have normal bowel movements. I'm completely dependent on Adderall to maintain a positive attitude at work, taking a lower dose than I do now(30-50mg daily, brand name) has a lazy, anxious effect on my mood, I stutter and am antisocial. I'm looking for  something I can buy or be prescribed that does impact digestion while proving the following effects. What I'm looking for, in order of necessity:

 

-Positive mood

-Focus

-I'm comfortable doing things alone on Adderall, not sure if this can be lumped in with focus

-Energy(I want to sleep ever 4 hours on days off from Adderall)

-Appetite suppressant(would be nice, not necessary) 

-(I hope this is allowed)I no longer feel sustained effects from MDMA, even on Adderall off days, it'd be nice to have that reversed 

 

Somethings I'm considering:

 

Ritalin/Dexedrine(I don't understand why Adderall vs. Ritalin have different digestive effects, but I've read anecdotes online from people who have been on both)

Modafinil

Piracetam

 

 

 

Thank you to anyone that took the time to read this, particularly if you are able to make suggestions. 

Edited by Bulbasaur, 06 March 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[YOLF]

If you're having stomach discomfort on adderall it could be related to magnesium deficiency. Checked your levels lately? Or just add a magnesium supplement and see if that makes things improve. 

 

If that's the case, some other things that are good for your kidneys:

Ornithine

Delta fraction tocotrienols (annato tocotrienols)

Curcumin or Turmeric (read up on this and get a good formulation)

 

Also:

2g/day of psyllium husk fiber

 

[Bulbasaur]

Thanks but did you read the thread? I already take both a magnesium supplement and soluble fiber. I've also tried circumin, felt no effect, I don't think inflammation is the problem.

[YOLF]

Sorry, saw the fiber, missed the chelated magnesium as I skimmed.  If there is nothing wrong with your kidneys (have you had tests done?), I'd try piperine, Turmeric/Curcumin, and ginger. Those are great for GI health. Make sure you are in fact taking methyl cobalamin, if you have an MTHFR mutation you wouldn't respond to other forms. I accidentally bought a years worth of cyanocobalamin and didn't realize until it ran out just how how much I missed the Methyl form.

 

Aside from that, maybe switch to dexedrine or vyvanse? Adderall is a mixed salt with left and right enantiomers (mirrored forms of the same chemical). One side is readily taken into the brain while the other is not and is metabolized elsewhere in the body where it can cause intestinal disturbances etc. Think of them as your left shoe and your right shoe. They are a mirror image and made from all the same things, but they only fit the appropriate foot. So if your foot is the receptor that picks up the amphetamine, it will only take the appropriate side. The receptor for the amphetamine is the same. 

 

Ritalin or Methylphenidate aren't amphetamines and differ quite a bit from them as I understand. Dexedrine will give you a more complete set of benefits if it works for you.

[FunkOdyssey]

-Biotin probiotic-Variable digestion issues-

 

 

This is intriguing.  Can you elaborate on "biotin probiotic"? Is it biotin (a b-vitamin)?  Is it a probiotic (friendly bacteria)?  Is it a special formula that includes both?  Or did you accidentally put two words together that have no meaningful relationship, like "table bear" or "rock cloud"?

[Bulbasaur]

Sorry, saw the fiber, missed the chelated magnesium as I skimmed.  If there is nothing wrong with your kidneys (have you had tests done?), I'd try piperine, Turmeric/Curcumin, and ginger. Those are great for GI health. Make sure you are in fact taking methyl cobalamin, if you have an MTHFR mutation you wouldn't respond to other forms. I accidentally bought a years worth of cyanocobalamin and didn't realize until it ran out just how how much I missed the Methyl form.

 

Aside from that, maybe switch to dexedrine or vyvanse? Adderall is a mixed salt with left and right enantiomers (mirrored forms of the same chemical). One side is readily taken into the brain while the other is not and is metabolized elsewhere in the body where it can cause intestinal disturbances etc. Think of them as your left shoe and your right shoe. They are a mirror image and made from all the same things, but they only fit the appropriate foot. So if your foot is the receptor that picks up the amphetamine, it will only take the appropriate side. The receptor for the amphetamine is the same. 

 

Ritalin or Methylphenidate aren't amphetamines and differ quite a bit from them as I understand. Dexedrine will give you a more complete set of benefits if it works for you.

 

I have used ginger in the past to cure a certain kind of stomach problem, I was having awful throbbing gurgling pain after eating a sandwich, chewed on some ginger root and the problem dissipated immediately; it was amazing, but it only works for a certain kind of stomach problem and not the kind I'm experiencing now. I am taking methylcobalamin, I always research the most bioavailable forms of all supplements before I buy them. 

 

I understand the post is long and I appreciate your help but if you're going to offer suggestions please at least ctrl+f first, I say near the end of the post that I am considering Dexedrine and have already stated that I have taken Curcumin(I misspelled it in my previous reply) to no benefit. I'm not considering Vyvanse  as I don't want anything extended release. 

 

 

 

-Biotin probiotic-Variable digestion issues-

 

 

This is intriguing.  Can you elaborate on "biotin probiotic"? Is it biotin (a b-vitamin)?  Is it a probiotic (friendly bacteria)?  Is it a special formula that includes both?  Or did you accidentally put two words together that have no meaningful relationship, like "table bear" or "rock cloud"?

 

 

The last one. I meant Bio-Kult, a probiotic. 

 

Edited by Bulbasaur, 07 March 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Nootropic Milk Hotel]

I switched from Adderall to Dexedrine, and I find it easier on the body all around. I think it's worth a shot.

[FunkOdyssey]

I switched from Adderall to Dexedrine, and I find it easier on the body all around. I think it's worth a shot.

 

This is a good call.  If you try methylphenidate and find that harsh, you might also want to try dexmethylphenidate (focalin) as that is easier on the system than racemic methylphenidate.  Of course, what we mean by easier on the body is generally less norepinephrine release or reuptake inhibition, and a lower ratio of NE/DA activity.  That's better for your gut (NE throws a huge monkey wrench into the digestive system), but probably less effective for your symptoms.  I think you should be prepared to make some compromises.

[Bulbasaur]

An update having not take Adderall since March 5th(well, I took 5mg on the 6th, but I'm not going count that):

 

New supplements I now take daily:

 

-L-tyrosine[for DA levels]

 

-Beta-alanine[for energy]

 

-Primatene(Ephedrine)[for energy, usually only taken at the gym] 

 

-I now take 5HTP and CDP choline twice daily instead of only once(5-6 apart) 

 

-I now take abut double the L-theanine per day, about 3 heaping tsp

 

Physical/Physiological Effects(of no amphetamine):

 

-Digestion is no longer spastic and food feels as if it's being digested properly, however I still experience a lot inconsistency and discomfort(but no pain anymore, big improvement) once the food leaves the stomach(intestines, etc), so I'm reliant on caffeine for closer to proper digestion and though its effects are much more mild than adderall it is not a perfect solution

 

-Muscles spams are very rare now, sometimes my biceps will still spasm a bit, but nothing I'm concerned about

 

-Obviously I'm very tired, I go into work and yawn every 10 minutes in anything but bright light, I drink a red bull what seems like every day now, when I don't leave the house right after breakfast I end up taking a 2-3 hour nap even after a full nights sleep. In regards to energy, I was most concerned with how my gym performance would be impacted and if my appetite would spike and cause me to binge eat again(I have a history of this). So far so good, Primatene and Beta Alanine are good enough at the gym, the former suppresses appetite almost as well as Adderall(at the time when I stopped, not when I first started adderall) for more reasonable period of times and without the stomach trauma should I eat something

 

-I wake up in the middle of the night(2-4 hours before my alarm is set) less often

 

Psychological Effects:

 

-With the 5HTP and CDP choline my mood is stable daily, this was a pleasant surprise, I fully very afraid of becoming depressed without Adderall

 

-Socially, it's a net improvement(another surprise) with the 5HTP and CDP choline, I smile and laugh more often, the good parts of my personality as noticed by others are in no sense dulled, nor am I less sharp mentally in conversation. The other side of this is that I'm much less mature acting and more child-like by default. I notice now that I have to actually think about acting like an adult as to not embarrass myself. This is one of the more interesting side effects.   

 

-Well, I am less productive, when I look at my progress at the end of the day now, there is simply much less done. When I started Adderall I was in school and now I'm taking this semester off, so this isn't a huge problem but it's not helping my self esteem to think I'm doing what feels like nothing all day

 

-I used to stutter if I got the Adderall dosage wrong(too much or too little) and if I didn't sleep enough, I used to stutter as a child as well. I no longer stutter at all w/o the adderall.

 

 

The next time I see my psychiatrist, I'm going to request Dexedrine.