26 replies to this topic

[cylon]

Is the best way to treat GABA deficiency to supplement with GABA directly?

[β-Endorphin]

No, as GABA can not cross the Blood Brain Barrier, thus cannot get inside the brain if supplemented directly. A much better way would be to supplement Picamilon; Its a GABA molecule binded with a vitamin b3 molecule, this allows picamilon to cross the BBB(Blood-Brain Barrier), and once inside it is broken down into GABA, which then binds to GABA receptors and agonizes them.

 

But Picamilon would be just a quick fix, a band-aid solution to a complex problem. Taking it for a GABA deficiency would be like taking Benzodiazepines for a GABA deficiency; it would fix the problem right away, but long term use would desensitize GABA receptors and slow down production/synthesis of GABA. This would not only actually worsen the GABA deficiency long term, but cause withdrawal symptoms once you stop taking it.

 

A much better solution would be to modulate GABAergic neurotransmittion. For example, a Vitamin B1(Thiamine) deficiency has been shown to result in GABA deficiencies, so supplementing with Vitamin B1 could be helpful. Taking Kava might also help, because it upregulate GABA-A receptors.

 

Valerian root is another good one, because it seems to modulate GABA activity in the brain(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14742369)

[cylon]

Thanks! Vitamin B1 and Valerian are great suggestions. Also recall reading that inositol might work, Not so sure about the safety of long term kava kava intake so will probably avlid

[pinnacle]

Topiramate increases brain GABA? (please check for references, I'm short for time)

[Strelok]

 

 

Taking Kava might also help, because it upregulate GABA-A receptors.

 

Can you provide a citation for this?  It is my understanding that Kava Kava is a GABA agonist, and as such it could lead to GABA receptor downregulation over time.

[noos]

Maybe low dose Prozac

http://www.ncbi.nlm....0492522/related

http://www.theguardi...dose-prozac-pms

[xls]

fix your gut (superfoods and no processed foods), fix your sleep schedule, exercise

[VerdeGo]

I second that. Speaking of superfoods, cherry tomatoes helped me bigtime. 1 cup of these tomatoes has over 600 mg of glumatic acid, and significant amounts of tyrosine, dlpa, and methionine (boosts serotonin). In fact nearly every amino acid is present in these tomatoes, and they're loaded with minerals and vitamins as well. 

 

I tried an experiment to restore my GABA levels, so I ate roughly 1.5 cups of these tomatoes. Instant calm, but not a sedated feeling. Felt almost identical to supplementing l-glutamate. Since glumate/glumatic acid converts to GABA in the brain, could OP simply supplement with l-glutamate? It definitely has a calming effect similar to theanine, and I get consistent results each time I eat just over a serving of cherry tomatoes. No worrisome thoughts, no obsessive thoughts, no anxiety, no stress, etc. This effect will carry over into the next day, and I wake up in a good mood. A coworker ate a handful of the tomatoes, and he also felt the effect. It's definitely not placebo. If you looked at the amino acid mg content in a cup of these tomatoes, it would be impossible not to feel an effect if you consumed enough:

 

8.9 mg tryptophan/40.2 mg threonine/26.8 mg isoleucine/37.2 mg leucine/40.2 mg lysine/8.9mg methionine/13.4mg cystine/99.8 mg phenylalanine/20.9 mg tyrosine/26.8 mg valine/31.3 mg arginine/20.9 mg histidine/40.2 mg alanine/201 mg aspartic acid/642 mg glutamic acid/28.3 mg glycine/22.3 mg proline/38.7 mg serine.  They also contain vitamin A, retinol, alpha carotene, beta carotene, lycopene, lutein+zeaxanthin, vitamin C, vitamin D, Vitamin E, vitamin K, thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, B6, folate, pantothenic acid, choline, and betaine. For minerals calcium, iron, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium (highest level of all minerals), sodium, zinc, copper, and manganese, along with 10.4 mg phytosterols are present. 

 

Eat 2 cups (2 servings), and double those amounts. Factor in a third or more of these levels getting destroyed by digestion, and you're still left with more than enough. The first time I ate them I was having laughing fits a few hours after consumption (maybe from the increased serotonin levels?), but now everything is leveled out and I get consistent effects from the glumatic acid, which I feel is definitely increasing and regulating my GABA levels in a natural, non-addictive way.

 

You may also want to look at chamomile tea (though I suspect daily use could lead to downregulation; seems to work similar as passionflower). You also need to make sure you get enough B6, B9, and B12. All these play a part in dopamine and helping synthesize all these amino acids. 

 

Hope that helps!

[timhill88@outlook.com]

WELL SAID, THANK YOU WELL RESEARCHED

How would the GABA cross the barrier the brain

[NeuroNootropic]

How do you know you have a GABA deficiency? Drink black tea, it has L-Theanine which releases GABA in the brain along with dopamine. Despite also having L-Theanine, I personally can't recommend green tea as it seems to have the opposite effect on me. With black tea, I find myself relaxed, but alert after a cup or two, but with green tea just one cup makes me stimulated and somewhat anxious.

 

Eat some yogurt as well. It doesn't have to be probiotic as all yogurts have bacterial cultures.

[VerdeGo]

The GABA doesn't have to cross the BBB if it's in the form of glutamic acid. The brain will convert it, so you're not actually consuming GABA itself, just the precursor.

I read a lot of reviews on GABA powder ( I forget the supplier, but they're on Amazon). A lot of ppl were getting effects similar to a niacin flush and feelings of calm. I think it depends on how much GABA you consume and the quality of the powder. I honestly haven't taken any, because I don't want to experience a flush.

And theanine produces conflicting effects in different people. Sometimes it causes more anxiety. I'd rather take in glutamic acid from food sources and let the GABA convert naturally. You may have low levels of both if you experience panic attacks, anxiety, misfiring nerves, etc.

[VerdeGo]

Thanks for the compliment Tim, but I must correct one thing. Instead of suggesting the OP try l-glutamate for his low GABA levels, I meant to say l-glutamine, which is available at many drug stores. 

 

I'm wondering if l-glutamine can cause a withdrawal after usage stops, perhaps caused by downregulation of GABA receptors? It doesn't seem to have addicting qualities. It always put me in a relaxed, somewhat lethargic state. I felt a little stoned while on it. I was very calm and my mind was in a haze, with no annoying thought process. However I wanted to start feeling energetic and passionate again, so I stopped using it. And I can feel the exact same effects after eating just over a serving size of these cherry tomatoes. It's more of a natural relaxation, a clear head, and a relaxed physical state. But I can clearly feel a full body relaxation occur. I slow down, I have little fear or irritation, or any other anxious thoughts or feelings whatsoever. And I'm noticing an effect in mood, usually the day after, perhaps from the tyrosine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and methionine present. I just hope I don't become addicted to these damned things. 

[timhill88@outlook.com]

VerdeGo You have my full support and backing I still have anxity but nothing where I have overcome,

 

Try adding excercising and I cant have supplements or tablets it sets me off with panic attacks and I moved out of family home because I get abused for being ill and unemployed so I live own my own and I cant afford to lose the part time job becuase employers only look at numbers anyhow Pls keep me updated bud ) if your ever in UK give me shout and Il see you Have a good day bud yh

[VerdeGo]

Tim, thanks again, I exercise frequently but not on my own intent. Mowing the lawn, being very active at a restaurant, and other activities keeps me constantly moving. I think meditation could be beneficial as well. I'm sorry you have suffered abuse. It's certainly not your fault, as you can't control what you're going through at the present moment. All we can seek is the truth to better ourselves.

 

I had my own rough experience after two years of sulbutiamine use, though I can't pinpoint that as the cause for my woes, but it certainly seemed to be the trigger (see my other thread on Sulbutiamine - Any Idea what Caused This?). I started experimenting again with B vitamins (sulbutiamine is derived from B1), but only standard vitamins B6, B12 and B9. On Wednesday I tried B6 again, and it left me with great energy. However I had difficulty staying asleep that night, and I woke up sore and lethargic the following morning (probably slept on my side wrong). Before work I took a small dose of vitamin B9. It provided a subtle energy and much higher dopamine levels (similar to how I felt supplementing on l-tyrosine), but several hours later I started feeling the tingling sensations in my feet and hands. Almost like a prelude to the 5 week nightmare I endured last year, which involved prolonged panic attacks, misfiring nerves, profuse sweating, anxiety, and so on. I was certain I had some sort of disease, so I went to a doctor but everything checked out normal. As far as the return of the tingling sensations, I'm guessing it's either GABA downregulation caused by eating cherry tomatoes with its high content of glutamic acid, or this is being triggered by B vitamins (either B6 or B9). My money is on the B vitamins, since sulbutiamine is a bioavailable form of vitamin B1. Tomorrow or the next day I plan to eat another 1.5 cups of cherry tomatoes to see whether that stops all my symptoms, and then take a wait-and-see approach, and take B vitamins only cautiously.

 

BTW a friend consumed 1.5 cups (1.5 servings) of cherry tomatoes earlier tonight, and he reported tingling sensations in his head, a lack of fear in approaching women, and a carefree, goofy attitude. So not only does science back up these effects, but personal experiences are starting to as well. But it makes sense you can simply supplement with l-glutamine (not sure if it's available in the UK), and feel similar effects. 

 

Please let me know if your anxiety and panic attacks go away (at least temporarily) after eating these tomatoes or supplementing l-glutamine (if it's available). I must stress I'm not a doctor, so please do your own research. My guess is that B vitamins may aggravate anxiety in certain individuals. I'm speaking for what has helped me in the recent past, and I will certainly update you on whether more glutamic acid stops my present symptoms. And if it does, I hope it helps you as well. 

[VerdeGo]

Sorry, I just realized you can't have supplements or tablets because it sets off your panic attacks. As xls pointed out, getting the right amino acids from superfoods, along with exercising and probably meditation, seem to be the best bet. The glutamic acid in the tomatoes should calm you down quite a bit. I'd also slice them, because a lot of people dislike the explosion of a bursting cherry tomato as they chew them up. It's much easier to get them down when they're chewed. So far I haven't had any stomach discomfort or acid reflux. I'd go with organic though, since they have the least chance of having pesticides.

[VerdeGo]

I must report that the weird sensations in my hands and feet have dissipated. Something about B vitamins tends to aggravate these conditions sometimes. I know too much vitamin B6 can cause irreversible nerve damage in the arms and legs, though my consumption was far below the UL. If you have anxiety, I'd probably avoid B vitamins and any quick fixing GABAergic drugs like benzos. You're probably better off that you can't tolerate pills of any kind. Stick to superfoods and get what you're seeking through diet. Keep me posted on whether you decided to try the tomatoes and if they help you.

[timhill88@outlook.com]

Hey I bought Cherry tommatoes today and will update you on what effect I get thanks man

Big likes ) Thanks my Bro

[timhill88@outlook.com]

Hi, what is the cycle on Cherry tommatos?? like everyday or miss a day and have it??

How do you know you have a GABA deficiency? Drink black tea, it has L-Theanine which releases GABA in the brain along with dopamine. Despite also having L-Theanine, I personally can't recommend green tea as it seems to have the opposite effect on me. With black tea, I find myself relaxed, but alert after a cup or two, but with green tea just one cup makes me stimulated and somewhat anxious.

 

Eat some yogurt as well. It doesn't have to be probiotic as all yogurts have bacterial cultures.

 

Thanks Brother

[VerdeGo]

I notice I'm calmer than normal with less of an anxious thought process for about three days after consumption, so I eat them twice a week. I just found out that a serving of brown rice (one cup, cooked) contains over a gram of glutamic acid, and about 250 mg of glycine (another amino acid that calm produce calm; many people use glycine for sleep; I haven't used it yet, but plan to soon to see what effects it has). So you can alternate between brown rice and cherry tomatoes (shrimp also has a high level of glutamic acid in it). I just ate two servings of brown rice, and I definitely feel some effects, though the tomatoes seemed to hit me harder for some reason. Also, make sure you're getting enough zinc in your diet (oysters have the highest amount), because zinc can boost sex drive and confidence and regulate neurotransmitter levles like dopamine in your brain.

 

I'm crossing my fingers that you get the same beneficial effects that I did.

[timhill88@outlook.com]

Hey,

 

 

Good man I will buy Brown rice thanks brov Oh yh traning certainly helps runing and walking make sure u include that in ur reigeme as well bud and when I make a covo with stranger or help someone It helps too to feel at ease and Im somone who wud have panics full on while going to pick up bread

Hey, I kind of also getting the vibe of your also into getting ur vitamins from superfoods than relying on  vitamins tablets which arnt natural...

[timhill88@outlook.com]

I notice food has a better effect on me (personally) I dont know about everyone and its more expensive than supplements too tho :(

Oh yh ass anti oxident at least one each day like fruit blueberries or juice good to keep balance right

[VerdeGo]

I agree that diet and exercise is the best course of action. I have a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, usually followed by a banana. For lunch I have non-processed deli turkey on whole wheat bread with baby spinach (high in vitamins) and some Gouda cheese. That is coupled with whole grain chips. At work I snack on blueberries, eat cherry tomatoes when needed (I think I'm about to switch to brown rice for my GABA source, however, as it goes down easier), a granola bar, more whole grain chips, a sandwich or leftovers from the night before, and celery and carrot sticks with hummus. After work I have a full dinner, and I go to bed with a smile on my face almost every night. 

 

I'm curious to know if increasing your GABA naturally through superfoods like brown rice and cherry tomatoes as helped your anxiety any? If not, then the root of your anxiety may be more complicated than low GABA levels. I just learned today that the calmest dude at work eats 6 cups of brown rice a day. Perhaps that explains why he's always mellow, never loses his temper, and is consistently calm. Before I can make such a basic assumption, I do realize that the human body and brain is very complex, and what has helped me may not help you, but I don't think it can hurt you. At least you'll be one step closer to finding answers and what works and what doesn't, and you'll be eating a lot healthier in the process. Please keep me updated on your progress. 

[timhill88@outlook.com]

I agree that diet and exercise is the best course of action. I have a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, usually followed by a banana. For lunch I have non-processed deli turkey on whole wheat bread with baby spinach (high in vitamins) and some Gouda cheese. That is coupled with whole grain chips. At work I snack on blueberries, eat cherry tomatoes when needed (I think I'm about to switch to brown rice for my GABA source, however, as it goes down easier), a granola bar, more whole grain chips, a sandwich or leftovers from the night before, and celery and carrot sticks with hummus. After work I have a full dinner, and I go to bed with a smile on my face almost every night. 

 

I'm curious to know if increasing your GABA naturally through superfoods like brown rice and cherry tomatoes as helped your anxiety any? If not, then the root of your anxiety may be more complicated than low GABA levels. I just learned today that the calmest dude at work eats 6 cups of brown rice a day. Perhaps that explains why he's always mellow, never loses his temper, and is consistently calm. Before I can make such a basic assumption, I do realize that the human body and brain is very complex, and what has helped me may not help you, but I don't think it can hurt you. At least you'll be one step closer to finding answers and what works and what doesn't, and you'll be eating a lot healthier in the process. Please keep me updated on your progress. 

 

The diet above looks good, maybe try to add more vegetables, But what I am talking about is completlty me personal expereince and knowdlege. I have spent endless hours in looking at amionios acids and treatments but anything that helps it brings it back but I am currently having once a week 2 cups of brown rice and adding green teA but excercise has helped... so I will kep u updated..

 

 

Maybe we could look at other neurotranmitters as well like serteion maybe..

[timhill88@outlook.com]

What I have learnt in the past is not to over do it on one thing for example having 12 cups of rice 5 days stright n bealive me I would do in the past and just add too many nootropics etc but I have learnt to take it easy and keep the anxity managable... There is no cure all the guys here talk about treatment but nothing could bring back How I was as a teenager... But for me I cant over do it becuase I just managed to find a job and left my family. They took the piss and were using me loll hard t bealive right but its ture when they saw the panic attacks and anxity and dizzyness I was out of job and became worthless to them and everyone I knew had walked away thiking Iv lost it but im glad Im able to earn a living its a cofee shop waiter but much better than getting abuse from people that once respected u

[VerdeGo]

Sounds to me like you are on the right path. Just keep doing what you're doing. Everything in moderation, and maintain a well-balanced lifestyle. Eat right and exercise. I wonder how many issues these two simple things could have solved before people resorted to supplements and drugs for a temporary cure? At either rate, keep your chin up and keep moving forward. You have the right attitude to get through this and conquer your anxiety.

[timhill88@outlook.com]

Sounds to me like you are on the right path. Just keep doing what you're doing. Everything in moderation, and maintain a well-balanced lifestyle. Eat right and exercise. I wonder how many issues these two simple things could have solved before people resorted to supplements and drugs for a temporary cure? At either rate, keep your chin up and keep moving forward. You have the right attitude to get through this and conquer your anxiety.

 

Good man supplements and drugs to me are an example of: How many jobs have we seen people take shot cuts as long as its nt too much they wil cut corners with supplements.. so keep me updated bud too

[LongLiveTheKing]

So what if my Gad1 is filled with homozygous snps that affect the conversion of glutamate to gaba. Am I just screwed? Ha.