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Starting my very first stack. Opinions welcomed

nootropics choline alpha gpc acetyl l-carnitine lions mane mushroom true focus

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#1 woogyboogy

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 08:17 PM


I am a 24 year old male, currently getting ready for summer semester of school. My main goal is to achieve a better level of concentration and focus, as well as a greater amount of energy. I do not expect any miracles, I will be fully satisfied with minor improvements. I am extremely intrigued with nootropics, and tams, and would love to start as soon as possible. I have a very hard time trying to focus on something for more than 20-30 minutes. I will start to get easily distracted and side tracked. I also don't retain the majority of the material I read, and it is very frustrating.

 

I currently take daily;

 

2,000mg Fish Oil

1,000mg Vitamin C

760mg Echinacea

10mg Certizine

362mg Oregano Oil

2,000mg Olive Leaf Extract

200mg Caffeine

Men's Multivitamin

 

I take the 200mg of Caffeine at around 7am, and honestly feel no effect whatsoever. My overall energy level is horrible, and I feel like that makes a dramatic impact on my focus/concentration. I know that the basic of basic nootropics is, L-Theanine, and Caffeine, but I feel very little, if any effects from Caffeine as it is, so I might just jump ahead of that.

 

Among the previous listed pills, I've been contemplating taking these daily as well;

 

 

CDP Citicoline Choline 500mg

Alpha Gpc 600mg

Acetyl L-Carnitine 1000mg

Full Spectrum Lion's Mane Mushroom 1,000mg

NOW Foods True Focus

 

 

Or should I just jump right into things, and take;

 

 

Either 750mg Aniracetam dose 2-3 times a day with meals

OR Piracetam 5 grams per day ingested between 1 – 3 doses

 

CDP Citicoline Choline 500mg

Alpha Gpc 600mg

 

Any advice is welcomed, and thanks for this amazing forum!


Edited by woogyboogy, 09 March 2015 - 08:21 PM.


#2 β-Endorphin

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 05:40 PM

Welcome to the forums :)! Its always great to find someone else that is interested with nootropics.

 

Well first things first, I should tell you about 3 specific neurotransmitters that are mainly involved in focus/concentration and energy: Dopamine, Norepinephrine and Acetylcholine.

 

Dopamine is usually referred to as the "pleasure chemical", because dopamine controls feelings of pleasure, motivation, mood, sex drive and Self-confidence. What's most important to focus on here is that dopamine also controls focus, concentration, clarity of thought, Working/Short term memory and energy levels. Things that boost dopamine levels tend to make people more motivated, happy, confident, focused, energetic and horny. Drugs that cause massive boosts in dopamine like amphetamine and cocaine tend to be addictive.

 

Norepinephrine is a neurotransmitter that the brain creates from Dopamine, it controls focus, concentration, motivation, recall memory and a few other things. Unlike dopamine, norepinephrine has no "pleasure" aspect to it, its a form of adrenaline that mainly serves the purpose of making you focused and awake. Too much norepinephrine may cause anxiety or irritability.

 

Acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter that, similar to norepinephrine, has no "pleasure" aspect to it. It mainly controls Focus, Concentration and Working/Short term memory. In fact, not only does acetylcholine have no pleasure aspect to it, but it actually lowers the amount of dopamine in the brain(Usually). This means that too much acetylcholine may make people depressed.

 

These 3 neurochemicals are all linked(Acetylcholine regulate Dopamine and Norepinephrine release, Dopamine regulates Acetylcholine release etc.) and the fine balance of these 3 neurochemicals is what is responsible for your focus, concentration, energy levels, mood and confidence.

 

Most nootropics and supplements aim to either directly increase or otherwise enhance the function of one(or all) of these three neurotransmitters.

 

To relate this back to your stack:

 

Caffeine is a drug that very weakly increases dopamine and acetylcholine, with very little effect on norepinephrine. Unfortunately tolerance build extremely rapidly, making caffeine a drug that should be used only on occasion for nootropic effects.

 

CDP-Choline and Alpha-GPC both supply your brain with choline(the ingredient that the brain uses to manufacture acetylcholine), thus they increase acetylcholine levels quite a bit.

 

The Racetams mainly increase acetylcholine with certain ones(like phenylpiracetam for example), having some action on dopamine. 

 

I would recommend adding in some L-tyrosine. Its the main ingredient that the brain uses to manufacture Dopamine and Norepinephrine, thus supplementing with it should reasonably boost levels of these two.

 

Some herbs like Ginkgo biloba and Rhodiola Rosea have actions on dopamine, norepinephrine and acetylcholine, so those would be interesting to look at.

 

Sleeping enough is important too, as sleep deprivation has been shown to drop dopamine levels while increasing norepinephrine levels. Which could make people less happy and more anxious/irritable.

 

Exercise is important too, with multiple studies showing that exercise boosts dopamine and norepinephrine, with long term positive effect on these two chemicals.

 

 

 

 


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#3 woogyboogy

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:30 PM

β-Endorphin,

 

Thank you so much for the very informative post, I appreciate it very much.

 

What do you think about taking these to aid with my Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Acetylcholine issues.

 

- 100 Mg L-theanine paired with 200mg Caffeine

- 500mg L-Tyrosine 

- 500mg Citicoline CDP Choline 

- 500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine 

- 500mg Rhodiola Rosea

 

I honestly get at least 8-10 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night. I sleep very well, but EVERY single morning, I wake up feeling like I only got 2 hours of sleep.

 

Let me know what you think, thanks again!



#4 β-Endorphin

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:51 PM

β-Endorphin,

 

Thank you so much for the very informative post, I appreciate it very much.

 

What do you think about taking these to aid with my Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Acetylcholine issues.

 

- 100 Mg L-theanine paired with 200mg Caffeine

- 500mg L-Tyrosine 

- 500mg Citicoline CDP Choline 

- 500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine 

- 500mg Rhodiola Rosea

 

I honestly get at least 8-10 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night. I sleep very well, but EVERY single morning, I wake up feeling like I only got 2 hours of sleep.

 

Let me know what you think, thanks again!

Your stack doesn't look bad. Caffeine will build up tolerance rapidly, so try to space it your use of it. Similar thing with L-tyrosine. Try to take the CDP-Choline alone for a bit before starting Caffeine, L-tyrosine or Rhodiola Rosea so that your dopamine receptors and dopamine production will upregulate first. Later on you could try adding in some Racetams for a boost, but this is not bad for a beginner stack.

 

Hmm, thats strange. Have you tried improving your sleep quality by improving sleep habits? Like sleeping in a room that is 100% pitch black with no light and no sound, avoiding alcohol before bed? If you still feel tired you could try adding in some melatonin, perhaps before bed.

 

Let me be clear in saying that the brain is an extremely complex machine. It runs on 100s of neurotransmitters, and the information I gave you was highly basic and doesn't take into account receptor desensitization, neurotransmitter synthesis and many other factors.

 

There are also many other important neurotransmitters like GABA, Glutamate, Serotonin, Opioid Peptides, Adenosine, Endogenous cannabinoids, Glycine and many, many more. But for focus and concentration specifically, the three neurotransmitters I stated are the main ones to look at.

 

Anyways good luck, and don't be afraid to ask me questions.


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#5 woogyboogy

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:02 PM

β-Endorphin,

 

Again, thank you very much for being so helpful!

 

I do not consume any alcohol period. I've maybe had 6 drinks total in my life, and I'm 24 years old. My bedroom is actually completely dark, and I have absolutely ZERO problems falling asleep, and staying asleep. But EVERY single morning I wake up, I feel like death. I've tried Melatonin in the past for several months, and didn't notice any changes. Also, I recently just had all my blood work done, and everything came back completely normal. 

 

I know that I haven't even scraped the surface yet of learning, and understanding how the brain works, but I'm trying my hardest haha.

 

Anyways, I just recently came across a thread that talked about Uridine, and the responses from people that take it were pretty remarkable. I was thinking about adding that as well as a couple other things. I was wondering if you could let me know what you think.

 

Here's what I've got so far, the ones in bold, are the new supplements.

 

- 100 Mg L-theanine paired with 200mg Caffeine
- 500mg L-Tyrosine 
- 500mg Citicoline CDP Choline 
- 500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine 
- 500mg Rhodiola Rosea
- 250mg Uridine
- 800mg Malic Acid
- Vitamin B-50 Complex
500mg Full Spectrum Lion's Mane Mushroom
Thanks again for all of your help!

Edited by woogyboogy, 10 March 2015 - 07:16 PM.


#6 β-Endorphin

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 01:56 AM

Those new additions are fine. Uridine is not really necessary as CDP-Choline is broken down into Choline and Uridine in the human body. Lions Mane mainly works by increases Neurogenesis, the process in which the brain creates new brain cells and supports the health of old ones, so its always a great thing to add in. Malic acid seems to stimulate the citric acid cycle, thus increasing longevity.

 

All in all, these are nice additions for general longevity. 



#7 woogyboogy

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:53 AM

Thanks again for the response.

So you think that taking all of those together daily would be ok? Should I cycle any of them?

How long do you think it would take to start feeling effects?

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#8 BeachyKeen

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:51 PM

Hey Woogy-

 

I'm pretty new to this forum (posting), but I've been doing this stuff (supplements) for a long time = 20 + years.

 

Waking up tired?  Been checked for sleep apnea?

 

I would keep your fish oil in the stack.  The brain needs fatty acids.  Hence 'essential' fatty acids.

 

I took lions mane for a couple months, didn't notice much.  It's expensive.  If you can afford it, then go for it.  It seems like it should be helpful.

 

 







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