25 replies to this topic

[katzenjammer]

Greetings all, 

 

Since taking c60 I've been developing a problem that I cannot account for.  I have for quite a long time had slightly elevated RBC due to androgen use; I give blood and with labs and whatnot I have a good idea of the relation between my androgen levels and RBC.

 

Since taking C60, I have noticed a pronounced uptick in my RBC levels; it's been accelerating up, to the point that it's difficult to keep up with.  

 

The only other thing I've changed is I had also introduced niagen into the mix.  

 

Is there any chance that c60 is doing this?  

 

 

Edited by katzenjammer, 14 March 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[Invariant]

We had a user on here who gave blood after taking C60 and reported that his/her blood had a different color than usual. I think it was bright red. Not sure if that could be related; someone more knowledgeable on this topic should confirm.

Edited by Novotropic, 14 March 2015 - 10:29 PM.

[katzenjammer]

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it.  If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.  

 

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.  

[katzenjammer]

 

Phys Chem Chem Phys. 2013 Feb 21;15(7):2473-81. doi: 10.1039/c2cp42850d. Epub 2013 Jan 15.

 

Mechanical characteristics of human red blood cell membrane change due to C60 nanoparticle infiltration.

Zhang X1, Zhang Y, Zheng Y, Wang B.

Author information

 

Abstract

The mechanical characteristics of human red blood cell (RBC) membrane change due to C(60) nanoparticle (NP) infiltration have been investigated in the present work. Using experimental approaches, including optical tweezer (OT) stretching and atomic force microscopy (AFM) indentation, we found that RBCs in the presence of C(60) NPs are softer than normal RBCs. The strain-stress relations of both normal and C(60) infiltrated RBC membranes are extracted from the data of AFM indentation, from which we proved that C(60) NP infiltration can affect the mechanical properties of RBC membrane and tend to weaken the tensile resistance of lipids bilayers. In order to explain this experimental phenomenon, a mechanical model has been developed. Based on this model, the strain-stress relations of both normal and C(60) infiltrated lipid bilayers are calculated with consideration of intermolecular interactions. The theoretical results are in great agreement with the experimental results. The influence of C(60) NP concentration on the mechanical properties of RBC membrane is successfully predicted. Higher concentrations of C(60) NPs in the lipid bilayers will lead to increased damage to the cell membrane, implying that the dosage of C(60) NPs should be controlled in medical applications.

 

 

Could this be related?

 

Anyone have any theories no matter how far-fetched, lol?    

[Invariant]

 

 

Phys Chem Chem Phys. 2013 Feb 21;15(7):2473-81. doi: 10.1039/c2cp42850d. Epub 2013 Jan 15.

 

Mechanical characteristics of human red blood cell membrane change due to C60 nanoparticle infiltration.

Zhang X1, Zhang Y, Zheng Y, Wang B.

Author information

 

Abstract

The mechanical characteristics of human red blood cell (RBC) membrane change due to C(60) nanoparticle (NP) infiltration have been investigated in the present work. Using experimental approaches, including optical tweezer (OT) stretching and atomic force microscopy (AFM) indentation, we found that RBCs in the presence of C(60) NPs are softer than normal RBCs. The strain-stress relations of both normal and C(60) infiltrated RBC membranes are extracted from the data of AFM indentation, from which we proved that C(60) NP infiltration can affect the mechanical properties of RBC membrane and tend to weaken the tensile resistance of lipids bilayers. In order to explain this experimental phenomenon, a mechanical model has been developed. Based on this model, the strain-stress relations of both normal and C(60) infiltrated lipid bilayers are calculated with consideration of intermolecular interactions. The theoretical results are in great agreement with the experimental results. The influence of C(60) NP concentration on the mechanical properties of RBC membrane is successfully predicted. Higher concentrations of C(60) NPs in the lipid bilayers will lead to increased damage to the cell membrane, implying that the dosage of C(60) NPs should be controlled in medical applications.

 

 

 

Could this be related?

 

Anyone have any theories no matter how far-fetched, lol?  

 

I *think* this is about C60 aggregates, also called nano C60 or nC60. According to Niner, these have very different properties than the molecular C60 we take. In particular, they have repeatedly been shown toxic whereas molecular C60 has not shown any toxicity.

 

Someone with more chemistry knowledge needs to confirm this though. I can dig up the full text.

[sensei]

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it.  If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.  

 

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.  

 

I have had 3 complete blood panels since starting C60 (over the course of almost a year) -- none have shown any abnormalities

Edited by sensei, 17 March 2015 - 04:25 AM.

[katzenjammer]

 

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it.  If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.  

 

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.  

 

I have had 3 complete blood panels since starting C60 (over the course of almost a year) -- none have shown any abnormalities

 

 

thanks - your RBC wasn't raised even a bit?  

[kmoody]

We have not noted any elevation in RBC among our c60 treated mice.

[sensei]

 

 

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it.  If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.  

 

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.  

 

I have had 3 complete blood panels since starting C60 (over the course of almost a year) -- none have shown any abnormalities

 

 

thanks - your RBC wasn't raised even a bit?  

 

 

Began C60OO 4/2014

 

Blood Panel RBC 6/2014 -- 5.11

Blood Panel RBC 11/2014 -- 4.84

 

Cant find the most recent test from JAN(?)

[katzenjammer]

okay, thanks!  

 

Either my (admittedly very weak) hypothesis is wrong (and my RBC has been accelerating for other reasons) or I am some kind of anomaly, lol.  

 

I'm going to stop C60 and monitor my RBC, keeping everything else the same.  

 

If anyone else has any thoughts and/or RBC data, please do chime in.  

[ambivalent]

Hi Kasenjammer,

 

Around a couple of years ago there were anecdotes alluding to both the preventative and healing effects of burn injury with c60; in particular a remarkable account from free10 where he sustained a bad burn from a propane torch. So dubiously, starting out for the first time with c60, I thought I'd try compare some 'moderate' self-sustained burns before and after using c60. The burns were not perfectly controlled but the difference in the injuries was stark, I thought. The redness of the injury with c60 present was accenuated. I've since wondered if this effect was due to changes in the blood, given your account and that of the person given blood where the unsual colour was noted.  

 

The grim posts are at 2550 onwards in the experiments at home thread.

[sensei]

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it.  If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.  

 

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.  

 

 

I have lab tests that have confirmed NO change in my RBC count over a 6 month period where I consumed at least 1 gram of C60 -- (twenty four 45 mg bottles)

[katzenjammer]

 

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it.  If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.  

 

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.  

 

 

I have lab tests that have confirmed NO change in my RBC count over a 6 month period where I consumed at least 1 gram of C60 -- (twenty four 45 mg bottles)

 

 

Thanks Sensei!  

[bixbyte]

okay, thanks!  

 

Either my (admittedly very weak) hypothesis is wrong (and my RBC has been accelerating for other reasons) or I am some kind of anomaly, lol.  

 

I'm going to stop C60 and monitor my RBC, keeping everything else the same.  

 

If anyone else has any thoughts and/or RBC data, please do chime in.  

 

I do not read any evidence that C60 is increasing RBC.

But if you have a High RBC you should considering donating Blood.

You will be helping other people and lowering your RBC at the same time.

A high RBC is not such a bad condition, a low RBC could be anemia,

 blood loss, or worst, cancer of the blood.  

I would not worry about C60 and high RBC

sounds like it could be a side effect of Androgens 

[Ark]

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it. If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.

Does no one else see a ethical problem with giving blood when on research substances?

[sensei]

 

thanks - yes, I remember someone reporting that - i think she was giving blood and noticed it. If memory serves, no one else confirmed this.

I wonder if anyone in the intervening time has discovered a possible connection.

Does no one else see a ethical problem with giving blood when on research substances?

 

 

If the red cross was concerned they would ask.  They ask a list of exclusionary questions as it is.

 

http://www.redcrossb...-criteria-topic

 

You can donate if you are on antibiotics for acne and infection prophylaxis

 

You can donate while taking most medications -- there is only a small list that requires a waiting period -- the list does not include benzodiazepines, nor ANY anti-psychotics, anti-depressants or other psychotropic meds

 

If you have inactive TB -- you can donate

 

If you have herpes you can donate -- you don't even have to disclose

 

The only exclusionary criteria regarding illegal drug use is IV drug use.

 

 

Remember -- the people getting the blood -- die without it.

[ambivalent]

 

Remember -- the people getting the blood -- die without it.

 

 

I'm sure it depends where you are donating your blood. In developed countries I suspect the likelihood of your donation making a life or death difference is remote (where blood supplies are completely depleted). As such the trade-off is questionable. I doubt patient or doctor would consent to using blood containing c60oo, when blood free from c60oo is available. I'm presuming the Red Cross have more relaxed criteria.

[niner]

 

Remember -- the people getting the blood -- die without it.

 

I'm sure it depends where you are donating your blood. In developed countries I suspect the likelihood of your donation making a life or death difference is remote (where blood supplies are completely depleted). As such the trade-off is questionable. I doubt patient or doctor would consent to using blood containing c60oo, when blood free from c60oo is available. I'm presuming the Red Cross have more relaxed criteria.

 

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, fluoroquinolones or statins.  It's kind of ironic that there are a number of conditions where getting a dose of c60 might save the patient's life.   (e.g. MI, Ischemic Stroke, Congestive Heart Failure)

[sensei]

doesn't approve any supplements herbal remedies or vitamins because they're not used to treat a disease
The FDA

[Ark]

Remember -- the people getting the blood -- die without it.

I'm sure it depends where you are donating your blood. In developed countries I suspect the likelihood of your donation making a life or death difference is remote (where blood supplies are completely depleted). As such the trade-off is questionable. I doubt patient or doctor would consent to using blood containing c60oo, when blood free from c60oo is available. I'm presuming the Red Cross have more relaxed criteria.

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, fluoroquinolones or statins. It's kind of ironic that there are a number of conditions where getting a dose of c60 might save the patient's life. (e.g. MI, Ischemic Stroke, Congestive Heart Failure)

The issue is the person receiving doesn't know. For me that's unethical, but that's me.

[ambivalent]

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, fluoroquinolones or statins.  It's kind of ironic that there are a number of conditions where getting a dose of c60 might save the patient's life.   (e.g. MI, Ischemic Stroke, Congestive Heart Failure)

 

Certainly most here would likely agree that on the balance of probablities patients would be better off with c60 infused blood than a random sample but it just doesn't feel like our call: most of us wouldn't feel happy dosing people with c60oo without their consent where they are perfectly capable of giving it, even with high confidence in its likely benefits. 

[sensei]

 

 

 

Remember -- the people getting the blood -- die without it.

I'm sure it depends where you are donating your blood. In developed countries I suspect the likelihood of your donation making a life or death difference is remote (where blood supplies are completely depleted). As such the trade-off is questionable. I doubt patient or doctor would consent to using blood containing c60oo, when blood free from c60oo is available. I'm presuming the Red Cross have more relaxed criteria.

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, fluoroquinolones or statins. It's kind of ironic that there are a number of conditions where getting a dose of c60 might save the patient's life. (e.g. MI, Ischemic Stroke, Congestive Heart Failure)

The issue is the person receiving doesn't know. For me that's unethical, but that's me.

 

They have NO IDEA whats in the blood -- it could have an antibiotic or drug they are allergic to.

[sensei]

 

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, 

 

Actually, you have to wait a month after Accutane to give blood

 

LOL

[niner]

 

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, 

 

Actually, you have to wait a month after Accutane to give blood

 

Well, thank god for that.  I'm not proposing that we secretly dose people with anything.  I don't even tell my friends and family that they should use c60 or anything else.  I don't want them to blame me if some random bad thing (that would have happened anyway) occurs after they take it.  I tell them about it, tell them I take it, but then it's up to them.  There was one case where my wife's mom had an ischemic stroke.  I smuggled a small bottle into the hospital and said "here, drink this."  (She's completely normal now, which may have happened anyway.)  Doctors are the same way-- they don't want to give people anything that isn't approved.  If they give you something that's FDA approved, they are officially off the hook.  If you get damaged by it, and these fora are full of people who have been damaged by various drugs, then, I guess no one's to blame, or the FDA is, or something.  You threw the risk/reward dice and it came up snake eyes for you.  Tough luck.  Accutane, fluoroquinolones, and statins seem to claim a lot of victims, despite their status as approved drugs.

Edited by niner, 24 May 2015 - 03:09 AM.

[bixbyte]

 

 

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, 

 

Actually, you have to wait a month after Accutane to give blood

 

Well, thank god for that.  I'm not proposing that we secretly dose people with anything.  I don't even tell my friends and family that they should use c60 or anything else.  I don't want them to blame me if some random bad thing (that would have happened anyway) occurs after they take it.  I tell them about it, tell them I take it, but then it's up to them.  There was one case where my wife's mom had an ischemic stroke.  I smuggled a small bottle into the hospital and said "here, drink this."  (She's completely normal now, which may have happened anyway.)  Doctors are the same way-- they don't want to give people anything that isn't approved.  If they give you something that's FDA approved, they are officially off the hook.  If you get damaged by it, and these fora are full of people who have been damaged by various drugs, then, I guess no one's to blame, or the FDA is, or something.  You threw the risk/reward dice and it came up snake eyes for you.  Tough luck.  Accutane, fluoroquinolones, and statins seem to claim a lot of victims, despite their status as approved drugs.

 

 

I agree with niner.

Come on let's be realistic about having a Blood transfusion.

If you need random blood from a blood bank.

When I was young my Father owned a Building in a Skid Row area with a Blood Bank on the First Floor.

Poor people that sleeped on the Streets were paid $9 for a pint of Blood, today they probably pay more.

They had one freezer that held tainted blood or blood that tested positive for Hep or Aids.

A trash truck would come once in a while and haul it away dripping blood out.

Now, they use medical disposal companies and the Blood Bank moved to North Carolina.

I think Merck owned it, I am sure they made the Blood Bank into a separate entity. 

So, if your blood contains Fullerenes the argument with the thumbs up and thumbs down for donating Blood.

Is it Bad to donate Blood if you are experimenting with C60? 

I do not think donating blood is dangerous to the receiver, since the C60 dose is only a tiny 1 or 2 ml of C60s.

Look at any of the mice and Rat experiments, you are taking the same size dose as a Rat.

1 to 4 ml is not a human dose.

And if you take a large dose your spleen turns on microphages that remove the C60s 

[Ark]

I understand that doctors don't want to use blood that contains anything that the FDA hasn't approved, as opposed to safe medicines like, oh, I dunno, accutane, fluoroquinolones or statins. It's kind of ironic that there are a number of conditions where getting a dose of c60 might save the patient's life. (e.g. MI, Ischemic Stroke, Congestive Heart Failure)

Certainly most here would likely agree that on the balance of probablities patients would be better off with c60 infused blood than a random sample but it just doesn't feel like our call: most of us wouldn't feel happy dosing people with c60oo without their consent where they are perfectly capable of giving it, even with high confidence in its likely benefits.

http://www.longecity...cdotal-reports/