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HIV virus much more contagious than we were told? (scared!)

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#1 bambam

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 01:52 AM


Hello people. I came across some news and they scare the hell out of me. I need opinions from other smart people.

 

https://www.yahoo.co...2626062832.html

 

This means basically that everything we were told so far is wrong.
I was always told things like "The HIV virus dies outside of the body totally fast and then it's no longer dangerous bla bla bla" and I believed it!

But this example proves that this is not so!

 

I am also disturbed by this here:

"Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA): Wash the instruments in soap and water, soak them in a disinfectant for 10 to 30 minutes, rinse the tools in clean water and dry them with a clean cloth, then store them in a clean, covered area."

 

Soak in disinfectant for 10 to 30 MINUTES??????

I have medical disinfection sprays which say they kill HIV on surfaces in 15 seconds! WTF?! :|? :|? :|?
I relied on this! If the disinfectants kill the virus in 15 seconds then why do they advise soaking for 10-30 minutes?

 

I am really afraid now because in the past I bought quite a few of hygiene articles like dermarollers which pierce the skin (via ebay from china) or

also things like blackhead removers (also via ebay from china) and one day when I was using this blackhead remover which is like a metal stick with

a tiny tip my skin was hurt and started to bleed a bit.

 

Now I am totally terrified and think if in order to kill a possible HIV virus you have to soak an object for 30 minutes but I only sprayed disinfectant spray on it

for 1 minute or so then how much in danger am I? ALL the damn time I was relying that these infos are true and that a HIV virus would not even survive the shipping

time from China to Europe. What if this is all wrong?

 

This is so absurd. I haven't had sex with women in years because I am too afraid of catching a disease and now I find out that I could have brought myself in danger

by ordering these things. This is unbelievable!

 

Think about what it would mean if this is really true. You couldn't even go to the barber anymore without risking your life!

My father once told me when the Aids craze started people even thought flies could transmit the diseases if they sting an HIV person and then sting another person.

I thought this was just irrational fear but now I think what if we have all been lied to and nothing is as simple as it seems?

I can easily imagine that they'd rather make the public feel safe than to tell them how huge the risk of transmission really is.

 


Edited by bambam, 15 March 2015 - 01:59 AM.

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#2 Astroid

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 04:19 AM

Could the Ebola virus not be transmitted the same way?  



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#3 Logic

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 05:27 AM

Wow!  Chill dude! :)

 

HIV, HSV, EB etc. etc. are all lipid coated virii.

Use Google Site Search  (In the top menu bar, 2nd from  the right to search for:

BHT lIpid coated virus

coconut oil lIpid coated virus

 

Note that coconut oil (Lauric etc. Acid) kills of an impressive number of bacteria as well!

 

Still worried?

http://www.google.co...c.q=bavituximab

http://www.longecity...infected-cells/

 

Feeling better now? 

Good!

Go find a girlfriend. Preferably one that's a shrink.   :cool:


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#4 Kalliste

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:16 AM

The 22 year old woman who was getting her nails done helpfully informed everyone that she had never had sex. Um... lol? And my bout with Chlamydia was from.a towel. Swear to god.

More likely version: she had sex, got HIV and is now blaming the nail saloon.

Edit: OK read the whole thing. Maybe it was true but then she did share a knife with someone with HIV.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 15 March 2015 - 11:18 AM.

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#5 corb

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 12:33 PM

She remembers she got a manicure?

A decade ago?
When she was twelve?
And that's her only contact with her cousin that could've led to the transmission?
I think not. She just thought up of a believable lie to hide an embarrassing episode - could be with her cousin, could be with someone else.

Or she really doesn't know and that's the only connection they managed to come up with.

This whole story has about as much credence as "I got pregnant in a pool". :-D


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#6 Kalliste

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 01:11 PM

Reminds me of something Eliezer Yudkowsky wrote in 2007 :-D

 

 

(SCENE:  A small cottage in Nazareth.)

Joseph:  Mary, my dearest fiancée, there's something I've been meaning to talk to you about.

(Mary's shoulders slump.  Slowly, as if under a heavy burden, she turns around to face Joseph.)

Joseph:  You seem to be getting fat around the waistline, and throwing up in the morning, and, er, not getting any periods.  Which is odd, because it's sort of like -

Mary:  Yes!  I'm pregnant!  All right?  I'm PREGNANT!

Joseph:  How is that possible?

(Mary's shoulders slump further.)  Mary:  How do you think?

Joseph:  I don't know, that's why I'm asking you.  I mean, you're still a virgin, right?

(Mary looks up cautiously, and sees Joseph's face looking blankly puzzled.)

Joseph:  Well?

Mary:  God did it.

Joseph:  You had sex with -

Mary:  No!  Haha.  Of course not.  I mean, God just snapped his fingers and did one of those miracle things and made me pregnant.

Joseph:  God made you pregnant.

Mary:  (Starts to sweat.)  Yes.

Joseph:  Mary, that is just so... completely...

(Mary's eyes squeeze shut.)

Joseph:  ...COOL!

(Mary opens her eyes again, cautiously.)

Mary:  You think so?

Joseph:  Of course!  Who wouldn't think so?  Come on, we've got to tell everyone the news!

Mary:  Maybe we should keep this between just the two of us -

Joseph:  No, no, silly girl, this is way too important!  Come on!

http://lesswrong.com...rgin_pregnancy/


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#7 Brett Black

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 03:32 AM

I think some of the previous replies in this thread are nonsense. This is potentially an important issue for anyone who has a strong interest in their health (as many here at longecity do.) This is no joke, the professionals in the field agree that there may be real risk here that has been overlooked:

 

 

 

 

Hepatitis transmission risk needs to be studied in nail salons, barbershops, analysis suggests

 

"The risk of hepatitis transmission through non-single use instruments -- such as nail files, nail brushes, finger bowls, foot basins, buffers, razors, clippers, and scissors -- during nail salon and barbershop visits cannot be excluded, according to the results of a new report unveiled at the American College of Gastroenterology's (ACG) 76th Annual Scientific meeting in Washington, DC..."

 

"...The true magnitude of this risk has yet to be defined and clearly needs further study..."

 

"...In the meantime, Dr. Johnson urged nail salon and barbershop customers to be aware of the potential risks for hepatitis transmission, and to take precautions including asking questions to determine whether or not the nail salon or barbershop is properly cleaning and disinfecting tools and equipment. He also suggests customers bring their own equipment like clippers, razors and nail files (both men and women)..."

 

"...No one should accept on blind trust that a business is taking the necessary steps to prevent transmission of bloodborne infections such as hepatitis," said Dr. Johnson..." http://www.scienceda...11031114947.htm

---

 

I am not a medical professional, and some of what I post here may be incorrect, but I have keenly read the medical literature relating to pathogen transmission, disinfection and sterlization. 

 

Personally, I would be very careful when buying, using or being treated with any instruments or techniques that puncture (or have a risk of puncturing) the skin. The disease risk from this seems like it is probably generally small, but I think it is wise to take precautions.

 

This is particularly the case for items that originate from developing countries (e.g. China, both because of widespread transmissable disease amongst the population like Hepatitis B and widespread poor manufacturing standards) and items that are not considered truly "medical grade" in nature and thus are far less likely to be subjected to the stringent hygienic manufacturing processes of true medical grade instruments.

 

If I were buying any such instrument (e.g. dermaroller, tweezers) that could puncture the skin, I would at least immerse it in boiling water for some time(which can inactivate almost all viruses and essentially all non-spore-forming bacteria) before first use. Ideally though, my reading suggests that 45 minutes at ~170C in a conventional oven is considered capable of complete sterilzation and therefore equivalent to an autoclave cycle.

 

Keep in mind too that disinfection and sterilization using amateur techniques may be prone to failures - e.g. voids and crevices not coming into contact with the disinfectant. Of course, many cheap (e.g. plastic) non medical grade instruments will not survive these disinfection/sterilization techniques.

 

I would also recommend against using any services that share (potentially skin puncturing) instruments between clients, unless they have serious sterilization procedures in place (i.e. autoclaving) which probably almost none do. I would thus advise against manicurists, barbers (hair clippers, razors), body hair removal by waxing or electrolysis etc.

 

These services exist in a grey area - they are carrying out procedures that can puncture the skin and draw blood, just like a dentist or doctor, but they often have very limited safety protocols (and compliance to safety procedures may be poor or non-existent.)  Personally, I don't think it's worth the risk.

 

Part of my consideration in all of this too, is that common pathogens that are currently considered to be "low risk" by the mainstream, such as cytomegalovirus (CMV) and herpes simplex, may play a significant role in worsening and/or initiating the declines seen in old age (e.g wiping out the immune system, initiating Alzheimers.) There is also some evidence that just the total "pathogen load/burden" (ie total number of infectious pathogens in the body) in elderly humans may play a part in the delines of old age and perhaps particularly in raising the general pro-inflammatory tone of the body.

 

Here are some resources that may be of use:

 

Pathogen Safety Data Sheets and Risk Assessment

http://www.phac-aspc...s/index-eng.php

(Excellent large list of pathogen, risks of transmission and how to disinfect against them. The list and information on effective disinfection techniques is not complete, but it's a good start.)

 

Here is part of the entry for HIV (note that it can be active for more than a week outside the body even when dried):

 


 

SUSCEPTIBILITY TO DISINFECTANTS: HIV is susceptible to fresh 2% glutaraldehyde, 2% Jodopax (detergent and iodine), hypochlorite, iodine, phenolics, and to a lesser extent 70% ethanol, NaOH and isopropanol.

 

PHYSICAL INACTIVATION: HIV is inactivated by ultraviolet (UV) light; however, the level of the inactivation is heavily influenced by the proximity of the UV source to the sample and the concentration of protein in the sample environment. HIV is easily inactivated in a cell free medium; however, in cell associated samples and blood samples complete inactivation requires much longer exposures to the UV source\. HIV is also inactivated at pH higher or lower than the optimal level of 7.1. A temperature of 60°C for 30 minutes will likely inactivate HIV; however, higher temperatures and incubations may be required depending on the initial titre of the virus.

 

SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: HIV can remain viable in blood in syringes at room temperature for 42 days, and in blood and cerebrospinal fluid from autopsies for up to 11 days. Although drying in the environment is known to cause a rapid reduction in HIV concentration, under experimental conditions, Cell-free HIV dried onto a glass coverslip in 10% serum can survive for longer than 7 days, depending on the initial titre.

www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/hiv-vih-eng.php

 

 

 

 

A primer on sterilization:

http://en.wikipedia...._(microbiology)

 

 

 


Edited by Brett Black, 31 March 2015 - 03:53 AM.


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#8 Kalliste

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 05:35 AM

Sterilization is hard as hell. We run every instrument through a dishwasher that reaches near boiling temperatures and then most of the instrument through an autoclave. And even this procedure is not fool-proof as you stated, mircobes can still survive on the surface of a rusted instrument.

 

It would be very intersting to see what the world of Virology will turn up during the next 25 years with cheap analysis-tech. I'm also wondering if there are not hundreds or thousands of minor viruses that accumulate in us and help cause run-away biomolecular damage in our tissue.







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