Posted 22 March 2015 - 03:57 AM
http://examine.com/i...at-are-a-waste/
Interesting
I agree with fat burning supplements and calcium(for most people) but pretty sure CoQ10 improves my gum health so don't think its a waste of money.
Posted 29 April 2015 - 08:50 PM
There is more and more evidence showing that CoQ10 does nothing in most cases, or at least most of the things it's marketed for. And why would it? It's so absolutely fundamental to the function of the mitochondria, that to me it's like trying to take more sodium to improve neurotransmission because neurons use sodium as their primary ion of electrical current. It's fundamental to the cell, and if you have a deficiency, you'd probably end up some sort of dead.
Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:10 PM
If you have a coQ10 deficiency, and not very many non-elderly, non-statin using people do, then coQ10 can have remarkable effects. Otherwise, not so much. It gets promoted as though everyone over 30 should take it, but that would be the view of coQ manufacturers and dealers...
Posted 01 May 2015 - 08:05 AM
not sure why onescrewloose was so much disagreed with. coq10 is absolute crap. ive taken that crap many many times over. the least 6 different brands with various bioavailabilities. nothing helped for anything. one day ill take few for fatigue, nothing. for hangover, nothing. for just general energy, stress, NOTHING. ive been taking at least 6 different coq10 for any condition i have been in alone, just to test if it works, nothing it helped for. zero. why is this crap still sold?
Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:46 PM
If you have gum problems and do not suffer from some crippling ailment like scurvy, full-blown AIDS or metastatic tumor disease, you are probably not cleaning your teeth properly. It's got nothing to do with supplementing CoQ10 or whatever.
If you are cleaning your teeth properly (lots of otherwise bright people think they do, but still fail plaque coloration-testing, often miserably) you probably have hardened deposits, coral reefs for bacteria, between the teeth or underneath the gums that causes chronic inflammation. This chronic inflammation goes away when the deposits go away with ultrasound treatment or cleaning with handheld instruments, even though some combination of herbal remedies can make it milder.
This inflammation can lead to chronic periodontitis and contributes, perhaps significantly to CVD dysfunction by upregulating atherosclerosis. It literally poisons your entire body, every day, with inflammation gunk.
Posted 01 May 2015 - 02:43 PM
This inflammation can lead to chronic periodontitis and contributes, perhaps significantly to CVD dysfunction by upregulating atherosclerosis. It literally poisons your entire body, every day, with inflammation gunk.
The AHA recently disagreed on this statement. See, e.g., http://healthland.ti...ease-after-all/
“Observational studies to date support an association between periodontal disease and atherosclerotic vascular disease independent of known confounders. They do not, however, support a causative relationship.” In addition, the group says there is no evidence that treating periodontal disease can lower the risk of heart problems.
For example, both may be consequences of underlying genetic susceptibilities, or maybe it is vascular disease that causes periodontal disease.
Of course, there are many other reasons for treating periodontal disease, but tormenting people who may have treatment-resistant gum disease with scare tactics is not justified.
Edited by nowayout, 01 May 2015 - 02:48 PM.
Posted 02 May 2015 - 05:55 AM
Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:48 PM
Bleeding gums feed bacterial growth, including some gram negative in the mouth. Stomach acid kill gram negative bacteria constantly being swallowed throughout the day. Breakdown of dead gram negative bacteria releases endotoxin which is absorbed via lipid-A in the small intestine. Endotoxin causes highly inflammatory immune reaction and cytokines via TLR4 pathway associated with CVD.
The link is real if you properly connect the dots.
Simple vitamin-C keeps my gums from bleeding. Hope this doesn't make the list!
Posted 03 May 2015 - 05:45 AM
CQ10 WILL product an noticeable increase in energy and performance for endurance athletes for a short period of time, though I don't think it's cost effective-- I can think of about 1,000 worse supps though.
For the cost, given the buyer is under 45-50 years of age the worst of all time, IMO is HMB.
I think Inositol can be very effective but at the doses most people take it...a waste.
Same thing with SAMe, which should be FAR preferred for joint pain to Glucosamine/Chondroitin; but almost NO ONE takes it in high enough doses for long enough because it costs so much.
DHEA is a complete waste and even harmful to 90% of people under 45 years old.
B Vitamin complex is almost always overdosed, as is Melatonin. But since both are dirt cheap I wouldn't put them in the top three.
I really don't think most people should be messing with Phenibut-- almost falls into the legal recreational drug category.
Resveratrol is a bust for anyone under 40, with the potential exception of ex-steroid users, and endurance athletes.
On and on.
It would be far easier to list the top three most effective supps!!
Posted 03 May 2015 - 05:54 AM
CQ10 WILL product an noticeable increase in energy and performance for endurance athletes for a short period of time, though I don't think it's cost effective-- I can think of about 1,000 worse supps though.
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[citation needed]
For the cost, given the buyer is under 45-50 years of age the worst of all time, IMO is HMB.
I think Inositol can be very effective but at the doses most people take it...a waste.
Same thing with SAMe, which should be FAR preferred for joint pain to Glucosamine/Chondroitin; but almost NO ONE takes it in high enough doses for long enough because it costs so much.
Can I get some references for SAMe and joint pain? Not discounting it, just never known of the condition. Glucosamine/Chondroitin has shown over and over again in studies to be ineffective for joint problems. I would put that on my top 3. Look into Cissus for joint pain. I prefer the Primaforce brand due to their standardization.
DHEA is a complete waste and even harmful to 90% of people under 45 years old.
B Vitamin complex is almost always overdosed, as is Melatonin. But since both are dirt cheap I wouldn't put them in the top three.
Certain forms of B-Vitamins, like Nicotinic Acid, Methylfolate, Methylcobalamin can be useful for some. I would say if we're gonna talk about useless supps, we shouldn't be talking about people misusing them and getting no results, but actual useless supps. B-Vitamins do not fall under that category. Melatonin is one of the most potent anti-oxidants you can introduce to your brain. I take it for that alone; it does nothing for my sleep. To me, that is very useful.
I really don't think most people should be messing with Phenibut-- almost falls into the legal recreational drug category.
Resveratrol is a bust for anyone under 40, with the potential exception of ex-steroid users, and endurance athletes.
On and on.
It would be far easier to list the top three most effective supps!!
I would like other people's opinions on whether or not Resveratrol is useful for those under 40. Phenibut is extraordinarily useful. It's a very efficient way to get severely addicted to a substance that can be bought OTC.
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:24 AM
I almost entirely agree with you. I LOVE high dose NIACIN, if used intermittently, and it's certainly one of the most cost effective supps.
If you ARE looking for a drug like effect, it's hard to beat phenibut; but, I'd sure caution against using it on a regular basis. In fact, if you are, why not lose dose Clonazipam? Less than .5 mg per day. With regular "drug vacations."
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:28 AM
I think you'll find far less pronounced effects for Resevertrol takers under 45 with the exception of those who have a family or personal history of depression. In those cases, it's the build up of Res's Mao-B inhibiting effects that I believe are responsible for the perceived health improvements, along with it's anti-estrogenic effects.
BTW
NO ONE under the age of 45 will come forward and suggest that HMB was a cost effective supplement for them! LOL...
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:32 AM
I agree, I would say that Phenibut is, for most, more habit forming than benzos. I would much rather take Clonazepam on a regular basis than Phenibut. From what I've read, Phenibut loses it's potency to a much higher degree than Clonazepam with regular use. Benzos seem to lose a part of their potency and than keep a level effect in the user, indefinitely. They can take months to get off of, but with patient and careful tapering, benzos can be stopped. They don't seem to (in most people), cause people to take more and more and more, unless they are just looking to get high. Phenibut seems to do just that, with rapidly increasing doses if one were to use it on a daily basis like some use benzos.
I just find it amazing that Phenibut is sold as a supplement. Just goes to show how shitty the drug war is though. There's this potent, euphoric, addictive anxiolytic that can be bought OTC and no one knows about/cares cause it's legal.
Edited by OneScrewLoose, 03 May 2015 - 06:32 AM.
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:35 AM
BTW I'm taking low dose melatonin to right now. It is useful but no one needs 3mg or more a night! Then again, it's dirt cheap, so I'll give you that too.
What about the price difference between Krill Oil and a decent quality Fish Oil?
Or what about licorice root?
90 % of OTC herbal menopause formulas?
90 % of all testosterone increasing herbal formulas?
Completely and totally agree about Phenibut! It's staggering to be that it can be legal and straight GHB isn't!!
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:40 AM
I think you'll find far less pronounced effects for Resevertrol takers under 45 with the exception of those who have a family or personal history of depression. In those cases, it's the build up of Res's Mao-B inhibiting effects that I believe are responsible for the perceived health improvements, along with it's anti-estrogenic effects.
BTW
NO ONE under the age of 45 will come forward and suggest that HMB was a cost effective supplement for them! LOL...
If that's the case, then selegiline and a natural AI is all you need. What of SIRT1 activation?
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:51 AM
BTW I'm taking low dose melatonin to right now. It is useful but no one needs 3mg or more a night! Then again, it's dirt cheap, so I'll give you that too.
What about the price difference between Krill Oil and a decent quality Fish Oil?
Or what about licorice root?
90 % of OTC herbal menopause formulas?
90 % of all testosterone increasing herbal formulas?
Completely and totally agree about Phenibut! It's staggering to be that it can be legal and straight GHB isn't!!
It is useful but no one needs 3mg or more a night!
3mg TR of Melatonin can act as an anti-depressant in combination with 15mg of Buspirone at night.
What about the price difference between Krill Oil and a decent quality Fish Oil?
Why in the world would you pay more for Krill Oil?
Or what about licorice root?
What about it? It depends what you would be using it for.
90 % of OTC herbal menopause formulas?
90 % of all testosterone increasing herbal formulas?
I would say the amount of supplement 'forumlas' and combination that are pure crap is closer to 97%.
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:53 AM
Good point and very interesting. I was talking more in terms of "short term" (4-6 week) perceived benefits in mood and endurance.
Yeah, those effects are dubious. Until I see some double-blind studies on this, given the huge variation and effect from person to person, it wouldn't be unfair to say that a lot of this is probably placebo. But without the double-blind studies, we don't know what is more likely placebo and what is not.
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:56 AM
You're entirely with me. Why would you pay more for Krill Oil???
What about 1.5 mg of Melatonin and 15mg of Buspirone? I bet that would be just as effective-- that's my only point. Just as 6 or 9 mg wouldn't be any more effective.
I'll go with the 975 crap figure too! What's the 3% is what I want to know.
Posted 03 May 2015 - 07:13 AM
Here's the study specifying the doses of Melatonin and Buspar:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22998742
What's the 3% is what I want to know
One day I might look for some examples just to see if there's anything out there that's actually useful. It will definitely take patience though.
Posted 03 May 2015 - 08:26 AM
I almost entirely agree with you. I LOVE high dose NIACIN, if used intermittently, and it's certainly one of the most cost effective supps.
If you ARE looking for a drug like effect, it's hard to beat phenibut; but, I'd sure caution against using it on a regular basis. In fact, if you are, why not lose dose Clonazipam? Less than .5 mg per day. With regular "drug vacations."
whats with people and niacin? i tried high doses for depression and it does nothing. even the flush effect i dont feel, but i tried no-flush and the regular ones too, same effect which is NONE
Posted 03 May 2015 - 08:36 AM
Because your body chemistry is different from others, and what might work for some might not for others? If this weren't the case, we'd just have 1 antidepressant.
Niacin doesn't do anything for me either, though the flush is interesting. Next April Fools I'm going to take enough Niacin to a good a real good flush going, then go on a 'hike', and come down with a rare, severe and contagious disease.
Posted 04 May 2015 - 03:27 AM
I have several theories about Niacin, like everyone else...lol...
In a nutshell, I think it's most beneficial when used cyclically for short, high dose periods (unless you are Schizophrenic but that's another story) and during those times you eat a very low carb diet.
"One day I might look for some examples just to see if there's anything out there that's actually useful. It will definitely take patience though."
This is the reality no one here is really interested in exploring. I will say, I exempt research chems from the same indictment-- however, they are DRUGS, albeit grey market drugs.
Posted 04 May 2015 - 07:48 PM
For the high dose Niacin check out this info ( I promise it's not schlock or ads)--
http://healthcorrela...search?q=Niacin
"Niacin’s effects on lipids are somewhat similar to those of low carbohydrate dieting. For example, both lead to a decrease in fasting triglycerides and an increase in HDL cholesterol. "
I think this becomes increasingly important as we age. For optimum health, it's tough to knock a supplement that is dirt cheap and when taken correctly (understanding it's mechanism of action, which I can go into if you would like), significantly increases the growth hormone surge post heavy exercise, and up regulates insulin sensitivity.
Plus, I think the accompanying dilation of blood vessels with the Niacin flush helps preserve their elasticity, and the increased blood flow has a variety of positive benefits.
Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:21 PM
there are several types of niacin supplements on the market tho. some are dirt cheap sure, but some not so much. im not even sure which one actually works best in such confussion of choices
The one I believe we are all referring to is Nicotinic Acid, the one that causes the Niacin Flush.
@Junk I'll take a good look at your links and respond later. Thanks.
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