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Severe Anxiety Disorder and Meditation

meditation anxiety

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#1 ImmortalSpace

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:12 AM


Hi, I have a severe anxiety disorder that makes it impossible for me to relax or calm down. I am on a Gleegan Diet (Gluten free Vegan) and drink white tea every day. 

I also take 800 mg Ashwaganda, 1500mg Turmerc, 1000 mg Flaxseed, get moderate activity, and recently started meditating. My anxiety lessened greatly however still persists, though I think meditation is my key.  

I remember a long time ago when I was really into meditation, I felt very "at peace" - everything felt dreamlike in a way which I think had to do with Theta waves? It was brilliant and a contentfully fullfilling serene expierience...

All I want to know is how to get back to that state of mind at a quick pace.. i mean it felt great even stress was percieved differently its hard to explain but i know some of you may know what i mean.

How do I get back to that state of mind??

 



#2 sthira

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:52 AM

I suffer from terrible anxiety, too. And for some reason white tea (and green, and coffee, even decaf) seems to make it worse. I've never really found an anti-anxiety supplement that's consistently, reliably worked. Supplements for me seem to either do nothing, or swing me over into depression. But strenuous exercise -- hot, sweaty yoga -- is really the only thing that works. Anything to get me out of my head. Meditation works, too, but like you say it's much slower.

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#3 ImmortalSpace

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:57 AM

For me white tea is really helping, because its anti-inflammatory. Maybe the caffiene is affecting you?
I'm thinking of trying Yerba Mate.



#4 sthira

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 03:15 AM

Maybe it's the caffeine, but I'm not sure. Coffee doesn't seem to make me as anxious for some odd reason. Since white tea is helping you, have you considered trying theanine?

#5 Junk Master

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 03:48 AM

Meditation is great but I'd seriously think about a low dose of an SSRI and or long acting Benzo (low dose!) WHILE meditating and seeing a CBT counselor.   Also, there's nothing better IMO for anxiety than H.I.T exercise, or aerobic exercise OVER 45 min per day.

 

If properly treated, you'll realize just how much anxiety was impacting your life!  You can get better over time and I wish you the best.


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#6 BarbCat

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 08:45 PM

I have a great deal of experience in this area.  Have long-standing anxiety and panic disorder with severe depression for most of life.  Nature and nurture to blame.  I've studied neuroscience extensively and recently gotten heavily into the science of epigenetics and am a patient of a protegee of Dr. William Walsh of the former Pfeiffer Institute who does orthomolecular targeted nutrient therapy for mood disorders.  What you want to look for are glutamate antagonists at the NMDA receptor.  That seems to be the newest kid on the block and gets down to the problem much more specifically than futzing around with herbs and SSRI's (been there and done that, oh have I).  The problem is most likely way upstream as to how your genetics express and a bit downstream as to how nutrients are going to offset those mutations, but in the meantime, something like nitromementine (hard to come by) or mementine (pretty easy) will address anxiety and depression a lot better than everything mentioned here so far.

 

Depending on genetic mutations, some of us can't handle theanine (green and white tea), and for goodness sake, stay away from yerba mate.  Anxiety and caffeine?  Nuh-uh.  GABA supplements don't really help, don't cross the BBB, no matter what the ads say.  Ashwaganda is an adaptogen and will strengthen your resistance to stress, but iffy for current anxiety.  Some people do well on passion flower extract, but hasn't helped me.  Relora helped somewhat, as it supposedly target excess cortisol, but didn't do a thing when I was going through hell.  

 

I was on SSRI's and SNRI's for years until every one of them pooped-out and eventually triggered panic attacks.  I meditate and exercise as well, and it helps but doesn't get rid of the problem.  Cannot do it when anxious, can hardly close my eyes during a panic spell.  It's preventative but not immediate.  For those of us with anxiety disorders, blocking glutamate and even rebuilding damaged neurons (nitromementine is the newest Alzheimer's drug that rebuilds neurons, off label use is for anxiety) is the way to go.   You might look into EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique thetappingsolution.com, an energy technique which has helped, but mementine has the effect of helping to forget stressful memories, so can be good for PTSD as well.  :~  


Edited by BarbCat, 18 April 2015 - 08:46 PM.

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#7 YimYam

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 12:22 PM

 For those of us with anxiety disorders, blocking glutamate and even rebuilding damaged neurons (nitromementine is the newest Alzheimer's drug that rebuilds neurons, off label use is for anxiety) is the way to go.   You might look into EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique thetappingsolution.com, an energy technique which has helped, but mementine has the effect of helping to forget stressful memories, so can be good for PTSD as well.  :~  

 

Hi BarbCat, 

 

I have an HPA axis disorder, it is of course triggered by stress and anxiety but what makes my condition so rare and unusual is that it's mainly triggered by food and exercise any more intensive than walking....It seems to have caused a whole host of downstream metabolic, neurological and endocrine dysfunction which has affected my glucose metabolism and ability to handle any natural stress response from eating and exercise, so getting to the point, when I eat and do exercise it activates my stress response strongly and as a result it has caused the same cognitive damage (if not worse) than a severe anxiety disorder would cause, which has left me with severe cognitive dysfunction, being blank mind, no ability to organise thoughts with executive function, very poor short/long term memory and no mind's eye. 

 

In essence the same physiological process is going on which is causing cognitive damage so surely nitromementine would likely be a useful drug for me to get some cognitive benefit from?

 

Hi Immortalspace,

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread, I'll give you some advice which has helped me successfully do meditation when I feel anxious,wired etc. I found trying to do meditation in my state very difficult, so I realised I needed to relax my body and mind before I tried to get into that state, as my body/mind was too stimulated and getting into a meditative state was too tricky and required a huge amount of effort without consistently effective results.

 

My advice would be to get your body into as a relaxed state as possible before doing the practice by doing the following; do some high intensity exercise, drink some calming tea like camomile before you do the practice, and/or have some reiki or singing bowls music on in the background (find on youtube) to help ease you into it, 4-7-8 breathing practice. For me following all these guidelines (minus the intensive exercise which I cant do) I found it significantly easier to do the practice and my desire to stay in the state improved dramatically too as I was less distracted by irritable feelings and bodily sensations. Also as BarbCat says give EFT a try it is very effective and quick. Hope my 2 cents helps. 



#8 BarbCat

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 11:44 PM

I have an HPA axis disorder, it is of course triggered by stress and anxiety but what makes my condition so rare and unusual is that it's mainly triggered by food and exercise any more intensive than walking....It seems to have caused a whole host of downstream metabolic, neurological and endocrine dysfunction which has affected my glucose metabolism and ability to handle any natural stress response from eating and exercise, so getting to the point, when I eat and do exercise it activates my stress response strongly and as a result it has caused the same cognitive damage (if not worse) than a severe anxiety disorder would cause, which has left me with severe cognitive dysfunction, being blank mind, no ability to organise thoughts with executive function, very poor short/long term memory and no mind's eye. 

 

Yim Yam,

Wow, it really sounds like you have an excess histamine issue.  I do (had to beg my doc for the test which he wasn't aware of) and it causes HPA-axis dysregulation and all the issues you mentioned, as well as insomnia and GERD, which I have.  Your symptoms are absolutely cookie-cutter high histamine (diet, exercise, hormonal, blankness, ADD, memory problems (hippocampus damage)) and you don't have to have allergies either. Histamine can be toxic to neurons. Treatment involves a very strict diet that I'm not able to follow, but there are supplements that are supposed to help replenish the gut bacteria that makes the DAO enzyme which breaks down histamine.  I've ordered Ultra Daosin Diamine Oxidase from Swanson on Amazon.  Haven't tried it yet, but heard good reports.  Not cheap, but once you get the gut flora in shape and stick to the diet for a few months (if you can), you can cut down on the supps.  The other thing is that high histamine generally means low-methylation, which causes it - way upstream and multi-nasty.

 

Here's a link that has a lot of good info and other links:  http://beyondmeds.co...ne-intolerance/.  It's not well known or recognized in standard medical circles (surprise, surprise) but is gaining a lot of attention elsewhere.  BTW, Histane is similar and sold in the UK, but I've heard that the Swanson product is more effective.  The jury is still out on that.

 

Have you gotten a definitive diagnosis for your HPA-axis dysfunction?  Tests, whatever?  I know mine is in the toilet because of severe stress of recent four years that knocked my tweaky nervous system over the edge.  That's why I'm trying the nootropics (memantine, n-acytyl-selank, P121) to try to regenerate neurons that I know were damaged during that time.  I've recently started with memantine and just received the selank today and will just do memantine for a while so as not to confuse myself.  P21 supposedly helps regenerate hippocampal neurons, but my source is backordered.  I can't say whether memantine will help or not, but I'll keep you posted on my results in a few weeks to see how it goes.  Good luck with the anxiety.  Life isn't supposed to be this hard, and I don't know how a person can be expected to go on feeling so awful day in and out.  I'll try just about anything for some relief that isn't going to hurt me worse.


Edited by BarbCat, 20 April 2015 - 11:46 PM.


#9 noos

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 02:53 PM

For some people a stimulant helps with anxiety

 

https://web.archive....-anxiety-12389/

 

 

How I fixed my social anxiety

short answer: benzo + stimulant prn

 

...I now believe that Social Anxiety lies along a spectrum, and
is not a monolithic disorder. People have varying
degrees of disfunction in their "causal" system and
in their "reactive" system. If one's SA is primarily
a disfunction of the "reactive" system then
benzos + beta blockers should provide complete
relief.

In my case, I have to come to believe that the causal
system is the "root" cause and contributes maybe
70% of my SA. The reactive system contributes maybe
30%.

After more reading (and talking with my pdoc), I
came to believe that the "causal" system is the
dopamine system and that drugs that boost dopamine
have the best chance of dealing with it.

 

 

 



#10 ImmortalSpace

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 08:16 PM

Update: I am finding meditation to be Extremley helpful... but bare in mind. This is a long process.

-

This is just my adivce on my personal expierience. Nothing else helped, this helped me so it might help you too.

First off, I notice what I eat affects how I feel and think. So.. go vegan and go gluten free. Gluten is a known inflammatory producing.

Plan it out.  You can't just go eat processed vegan junk food. You have to eat real foods. Fruits, Vegtables, Hummus... Replace bread with nuts\seeds\Corn-Tortilla Chips. 

.

Second, get a blender. Put LOTS of leafy greens in the blender. Limit sugary fruits, eat whole instead. 

Do research on anti-inflammatory vegtabales. Some of the top are Ginger and Turmeric. Get a turmeric supplement, include Ginger in Green Smoothies.

Overall, put handfulls of greens in your smoothie. Eat enough calories... and this will improve your situation. BUT.. give it time. It takes a while to get there. Trust me, i know it's hard but you will.

-

Excercise often but not too streneous. Just sweat. Get 180 mins a week. Getting 60 mins of walking on the treadmill is helpfull.

Meditate daily, keep a meditation journal. 

-

Supplements

Turmeric 1000 mg (Very important)

Ashwaganda 

Flaxseed oil (Very important)

 

I know this is my post, but i've made enough progress to share what's helped me over this course. Message me for questions!

We're all in this together. 



#11 BarbCat

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:37 PM

Update: I am finding meditation to be Extremley helpful... but bare in mind. This is a long process.

-

This is just my adivce on my personal expierience. Nothing else helped, this helped me so it might help you too.

First off, I notice what I eat affects how I feel and think. So.. go vegan and go gluten free. Gluten is a known inflammatory producing.

Plan it out.  You can't just go eat processed vegan junk food. You have to eat real foods. Fruits, Vegtables, Hummus... Replace bread with nuts\seeds\Corn-Tortilla Chips. 

.

Second, get a blender. Put LOTS of leafy greens in the blender. Limit sugary fruits, eat whole instead. 

Do research on anti-inflammatory vegtabales. Some of the top are Ginger and Turmeric. Get a turmeric supplement, include Ginger in Green Smoothies.

Overall, put handfulls of greens in your smoothie. Eat enough calories... and this will improve your situation. BUT.. give it time. It takes a while to get there. Trust me, i know it's hard but you will.

-

Excercise often but not too streneous. Just sweat. Get 180 mins a week. Getting 60 mins of walking on the treadmill is helpfull.

Meditate daily, keep a meditation journal. 

-

Supplements

Turmeric 1000 mg (Very important)

Ashwaganda 

Flaxseed oil (Very important)

 

ImmortalSpace

Thanks for your input.  A few things to clarify.  Meditation is wonderful and I try to do it preventatively as part of my spiritual practice, but it is very difficult to do when in an anxious state or while having panic disorder.  It's difficult to even close one's eyes in a hyper state, much less try to sit still.  Gentle rhythmic exercise helps the most, vigorous does not until the anxious state is lessened.  Dancing always works unless my balance is wonky.  Some of us have methylation issues whereby certain foods and supplements, notably folates, are not good.  Dark leafy greens unfortunately fall into the folate category and are high in histamines.  But they're so good otherwise that it's a harm/benefit balance and I eat them anyway.  For me, pea and hemp protein are better choices in my Ninja blender than handfuls of greens or fruit.  Too bad, I love them.  These intuitive natural choices are great for most, but those of us with confirmed chemical imbalances have to be on guard always.  It's not just about food or chemical sensitivies, neurotransmitter levels, or nutrition, but what's happening at the molecular level way upstream.  Epigenetic medicine seems to hold the most hope, and I sure hope mainstream medicine is headed that way, but I very much doubt it.

 

I think that most of us on this board are savvy with nutrition and do not eat junk food, although your's is a good reminder to not.  A vegan diet works for some but not for most, definitely not for me, and processed foods are of course out of the question.  Those who are trying to be advocates for their own health are always trawling the internet for information and are probably aware of processed and genetically engineered foods enough to avoid them.  Poor lifestyle choices will always makes things worse, but good lifestyle choices do not necessarily makes things better and this is a hard, cold fact.  Not all supplements work for everyone, and some can hurt.  I am a low-methylator with high histamine, high copper and low GABA transferase enzymes, and am on a specific nutrient therapy that will a lot of take time to note any improvement.  I've started DAO enzymes for the histamine, so we shall see.  Unfortunately, ashwaganda does nothing, nor does passion flower, gaba supplements, gluten free diet, curcumin, all the big players, although I keep trying to find a magic bullet and am always open to new things.  I've learned that indiscriminate supplementing can hurt my chemical make-up and these days I have to research what they're actually doing biochemically - the why and how - beforehand.  I've spent a lot of money and hurt myself too many times.  You are absolutely right about the inflammation angle, and I take lots of omega-3's to help out there.

 

We all have to keep up with healthy life-style choices no matter what, but in the meantime, trying to identify potent interventions that balance my anxiety-prone chemistry or lessen my symptoms is an ongoing process and the only way I know how to cope with anxiety and insomnia that doesn't seem to respond to much of anything.  I always appreciate any suggestions, but unfortunately, this is where I'm at.  In other words, I've tried 'em all, got the T-shirt, and am looking for something that will actually work and not hurt.  I'm a big proponent for a healthy lifestyle, have been for most of my long and adventurous life, but unfortunately, lifestyle and natural supplements are not enough.  I guess you could say I WANT A NEW DRUG!!!


Edited by BarbCat, 25 April 2015 - 07:40 PM.


#12 ImmortalSpace

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 03:23 AM

I see where you are getting at. I think everyone want's that quick fix, and maybe science will cure anxiety\depression who knows.

But at the same time eating healthy and doing things that make you healthy are worth it in the long run.

For me personally, nutrition has a HUGE affect on my mental state as an anxiety sufferer. Just eating an allergin for me such as gluten or dairy will change anxiety levels.

I know that you don't need supplements, but for things like Turmeric... it is hard to consume that much without it being compacted into a pill, or garlic supplements for example.

I think supplements should be used to consume things in larger amounts that would be harder than in it's regular version.

And yes, I completley understand what you mean about meditating during an anxious state or a panic attack.

What I found that helps is to keep a meditation momentum.. keep a journal of your meditations for 40 minutes a day. Do this every day. Your body will change the way it reacts to stress.

And no. You don't need to meditate in silence, put on music it has the same effect- I find listening to Clint Massels Orchestrattions really relaxing. 

The take away is that an ongoing practice of meditating changes the stress response- and of course keep up the anti-inflammatory foods.. it's hard to be relaxed in an inflammatory body so listen to what your body is telling you. 

 

Consider these interesting sources.

 

Effect of meditation on stress-induced changes in cognitive functions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21417807

Inflammation in anxiety.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22814704

Study reveals gene expression changes with meditation

http://www.news.wisc.edu/22370

 

 



#13 jetmango

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 12:05 PM

guys,  re meditation- I tried it before, got some longer streaks [longest was AFAIR 75 days - from 20mins to 1 hour daily]

 

why I stopped? After approx. 60 days instead of going deeper I was getting more unpatient or anxious. Also found out that my thoughts are becoming much 'wilder' in a way. Maybe it was a 'detox' - like before sun goes up you got night first.. IDK. Just stopped it [maybe I was doing it wrongly - I did a classic Zen meditation when you just observe your thoughts and remain conscious]

 

I've had several experiences which were definitely deeper meditation, that was really cool but again I ditched that.

 

I plan to give it another try soon, though.



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#14 ImmortalSpace

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 08:15 PM

There are a lot of different kinds of meditation.

The one I find that helps best is not to "Stop thinking" -

but to reflect on your life... everyone needs time alone and space.

I think that's what it's best for, to take time out and "Think" about your life, and how things are headed.

Everyone says thinking is bad, but we have brains for a reason, just reflect on your life is it's purpose.

-

However I feel that eating healthy and exercising contribute to lessening anxiety, meditation is just 

another weapon to add to your arsenal. But, I really think you should put exercising first. Take an hour walk

at least 6 days a week, i say this from experience that it's lowered my anxiety and im just getting back to it.

It really helps, look up the benefits of walking- it's crazy how much it helps you. 

 

Edit: Also I notice that if I eat too much it makes me anxious when im done, no idea why. I stopped eating so much during meals and its lowered my anxiety. Food for though, hah great pun. 


Edited by ImmortalSpace, 03 May 2015 - 08:17 PM.






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