3 replies to this topic

[diabeticNorm]

I have seen a few pieces of research here and there and read in a book that suggestion works better when you are very relaxed or relaxed (and not if you are stressed).  This would seem to make sense as hypnotists are famous for relaxing a patient before suggestion.

 

I wonder if the same applies to cognitive therapy?  I suppose a suggestion and the logical arguments of cognitive therapy are very similar, if not identical.  It makes sense because the body shuts down many different functions when you are stressed (repair etc).  When you are in a normal state or relaxed, I would imagine these systems are allowed to function, perhaps including the brain functions which would allow effective processing of the cog therapy.

 

I would be interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on this.

 

Cheers.  

[OneScrewLoose]

The important thing to understand is that there is no logical base in your brain, the brain is simply an experience machine. Additionally, what is more beneficial on an evolutionary scale: consistency, or change that could be good, but also might be bad? Your brain goes towards what it knows, not what's good for it, and one must, bit by bit, override the initial programming to create something new. This takes a lot of patience, but it's necessary to truly move on.

If you can't relax, you have to teach yourself a little bit at a time. See if you can relax by just 5%. When you do it, appreciate it, and put into your mind that this is the direction you want to go in. It will take some time, but with this approach, you can override the anxiety default and learn to relax.

For the most part, I believe that medication can more often than not be like training wheels, to show your mind something new, instead of something that needs to be taken indefinitely. The right medication can show your mind how to relax. Do you take anything right now?

For more info on the the illogic of the brain, check out the book "Mystery of Consciousness" by John Searle (he came up with the famous Chinese Room Though Experiment). Chapter 4 uses a version of Godel's Stopping Problem as a proof that the brain has no logical axioms. It is beyond fascinating.

[diabeticNorm]

Hi OneScrewloose,

 

I will look into that book, sounds interesting.

 

I think I get parts of what you are saying: The brain prefers what is known to be ok ("consistency") rather than changing to an unknown way of thinking or state which could lead to danger even if its better?

 

I definitely subscribe to the idea that relaxation can be taught.  I don't quite understand what is meant by a logical axiom or logical base.  I can see that the brain runs on automatic much of the time and that these thoughts etc are not always logical.  I would only somewhat disagree that the brain has no logical base because the reasoning part of the brain has been shown to be able to override other parts of the brain (cognitive therapy) but maybe this is not what you are saying.

 

 

 

 

I am grateful for you to be the only one who taken the time to respond to my question so far but what I really want to know is: Does deep relaxation/meditation allow you to enter a state of mind which is easier to send suggestions to the brain? (i.e. do you have a higher percentage chance of getting a suggestion through to become a belief). 

[OneScrewLoose]

I think I get parts of what you are saying: The brain prefers what is known to be ok ("consistency") rather than changing to an unknown way of thinking or state which could lead to danger even if its better?

 

Precisely. These leads to far more evolutionary stability on the species level.

 

An axiom is an assumption we make in a logical system. Let's take standard mathematics. We have the underlying assumption that we are using the set of real numbers, or sometimes complex numbers. If you make the assumption that we are using the set of integers (which are whole numbers only), we move into a realm of math called discrete math, where 2+2 can equal 0.

 

In geometry, when we use proof by contradiction, we make the assumption that the logical principal of the 'disjunctive syllogism' is true. In any mathematical system, we have to make assumptions that cannot be proved using the rules of the system itself. This is called Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.

So when we develop AI, inherent in the program are mathematical axioms, logical assumptions, that we've assumed in order to use as a foundation of the AIs logical.

The brain has no foundation in any logical axiom or system. It is a simply an experience machine based on Hebbian Learning, otherwise known as "fire together, wire together", where neurons that have coinciding experience make stronger connections. So the brain tends towards the connections its made in favor of other behavior. It has no logical basis to determine that a new experience might be more beneficial and to strengthen those connection; the new connections only get strengthened through repeated experience.

 

Yes, there are many kinds of meditation that make your brain more susceptible to suggestion, or rather, increase the rate of Hebbian Leaning (I would look this term up). You can look up what kinds of meditation can do this. Meditation that puts you in a trance-like state would be the area I would look into first.