25 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

So, after much reading and consideration, I'm about to start C60oo.  I have a batch from carbon60oliveoil.  If the effects are positive I will set up to make my own.

 

Planning on starting at 1mg per day.  A few questions:

 

• I've been taking MitoQ for about 9 months.  Since both C60 and MitoQ are mitochondrial targeted anti-oxidants, is there possible synergy or counter indication between these two substances?  In order to have as few variables changing at one time my inclination is to continue taking the MitoQ.  Thoughts?
• What is the best time of day to take C60oo?  Some seem to report C60oo giving them extra energy, others report C60 causing them to sleep excessively.  I personally am a chronic insomniac, so I would not like anything that will keep me awake.  On the other hand, something that encouraged some additional sleep would be most welcome (provided it's not in the middle of the day).  My suspicion is that because of the extremely long half life of this substance that once serum levels stabilize that it probably won't much matter what time of day I take it.  But, any informed advice would be most appreciated.
• Does it make any difference if I take it with or without food?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 16 May 2015 - 02:11 AM.

[YOLF]

For sleep: 

 

Tried glycine or TMG before bed? I don't think C60 will keep you up at night, maybe if you take it at night, but otherwise I wouldn't think so.

 

I doubt you need to take it with a meal, it's a lipid, so you should have pretty much unlimited absorption?

[Daniel Cooper]

For sleep: 

 

Tried glycine or TMG before bed? I don't think C60 will keep you up at night, maybe if you take it at night, but otherwise I wouldn't think so.

 

I doubt you need to take it with a meal, it's a lipid, so you should have pretty much unlimited absorption?

 

Haven't tried glycine or trimethylgycine.  Have you tried them for sleep, if so what dose has been effective?

 

 

[Kalliste]

I often take 3-5ml before going to bed. I often it eat it with more olive oil. Compared to shining 150w halogen lights on my head, looking into a smart pad at 10pm etc it does nothing to keep me awake.

5-10mg of MitoQ every day. I think MitoQ makes me more enduring in the gym. I suspect I feel MitoQ more than C60 in the hours after taking it.

But I've been on both since 201409 so it's hard to tell.

Never felt any interactions, never felt this good so far in my life health wise even though the effect should not be overstated.

The past year I've also ramped up my consumption of nuts (50-150g/day). Coffee (1 to 1.5liter/day), green te (0.5-1.5liter/day), grams of currypowder, curcumin powder, gingerpowder most days, broccoli, tomatoe-juice most days.

I take cold showers and hot baths almost every day, sometimes many. I go on a periodic faste once every other month for 3-5 days.

 

The main effect I have noticed is decreased soreness in my legs from several days of endurance training, increased ability to "reboot" in the middle of a weightlifting session and continue. I'll go on a walk with my son and while he plays I can easily do 12x10 whole body dips + 100 pushups.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 16 May 2015 - 04:59 AM.

[YOLF]

1g of glycine. 3g of TMG (has other benefits at this level). 

 

Take it like an hour before bed in water or a supplement shake. Glycine is supposed to speed the onset of sleep and make sleep more efficient. I started having trouble getting up after taking it a few days in a row. Use it sparingly. First time I took it I was able to function on 6 hours of sleep and wake up more easily. I think it gets recycled and recycles melatonin which causes sleep.

 

The TMG on the other hand is part glycine... not sure if it gets reduced to glycine or not, but it's good for reducing homocysteine levels which is good in general for life extension, telomeres etc. It's also pretty cheap as a bulk powder. I got a kg of it for less than $20. It's cheap and good. Also referred to as betaine or anhydrous betaine etc.

 

Also make sure you aren't using any blue or "extra white" or daylight CFLs (they are slightly blue around 6800-7500K). Stick to 2700-5600k, though 2700 might also tell your brain it's morning?... not sure on that one. I use 5600K. 2700k is closest to incandescent/tungsten IIRC and best for vision.

[YOLF]

I often take 3-5ml before going to bed. I often it eat it with more olive oil. Compared to shining 150w halogen lights on my head, looking into a smart pad at 10pm etc it does nothing to keep me awake.

5-10mg of MitoQ every day. I think MitoQ makes me more enduring in the gym. I suspect I feel MitoQ more than C60 in the hours after taking it.

But I've been on both since 201409 so it's hard to tell.

Never felt any interactions, never felt this good so far in my life health wise even though the effect should not be overstated.

The past year I've also ramped up my consumption of nuts (50-150g/day). Coffee (1 to 1.5liter/day), green te (0.5-1.5liter/day), grams of currypowder, curcumin powder, gingerpowder most days, broccoli, tomatoe-juice most days.

I take cold showers and hot baths almost every day, sometimes many. I go on a periodic faste once every other month for 3-5 days.

 

The main effect I have noticed is decreased soreness in my legs from several days of endurance training, increased ability to "reboot" in the middle of a weightlifting session and continue. I'll go on a walk with my son and while he plays I can easily do 12x10 whole body dips + 100 pushups.

Halogens are ~3200K. 

 

Raspberry ketones make a good energy source too.

[Daniel Cooper]

I often take 3-5ml before going to bed. I often it eat it with more olive oil. Compared to shining 150w halogen lights on my head, looking into a smart pad at 10pm etc it does nothing to keep me awake.

5-10mg of MitoQ every day. I think MitoQ makes me more enduring in the gym. I suspect I feel MitoQ more than C60 in the hours after taking it.

But I've been on both since 201409 so it's hard to tell.

Never felt any interactions, never felt this good so far in my life health wise even though the effect should not be overstated.

The past year I've also ramped up my consumption of nuts (50-150g/day). Coffee (1 to 1.5liter/day), green te (0.5-1.5liter/day), grams of currypowder, curcumin powder, gingerpowder most days, broccoli, tomatoe-juice most days.

I take cold showers and hot baths almost every day, sometimes many. I go on a periodic faste once every other month for 3-5 days.

 

The main effect I have noticed is decreased soreness in my legs from several days of endurance training, increased ability to "reboot" in the middle of a weightlifting session and continue. I'll go on a walk with my son and while he plays I can easily do 12x10 whole body dips + 100 pushups.

 

How long did it take for you to notice a difference with C60oo?

[Kalliste]

I didnt know for sure at first. But I stopped it a month ago and started feeling exhausted almost right away even though I took a 30ml dose before stopping.

[niner]

I didnt know for sure at first. But I stopped it a month ago and started feeling exhausted almost right away even though I took a 30ml dose before stopping.

 

This wasn't my experience.  For a long time I was taking 30ml once a month without noticing a drop-off in effects.   Three possible explanations for your experience come to mind:  1) You were feeling better because of a receptor-mediated anti-allergy effect, which requires more frequent dosing than the mitochondrial effects.  2)  You felt worse due to a coincidental event, like a virus or allergy episode.  3) that either the high endurance you experienced while using c60oo or the post-c60 malaise were a placebo effect.  I (and a lot of other people) have experienced the improved endurance.  I felt like a machine; it was pretty fun.  The consistency of your description with other people's experiences makes me think that it was real, leaving 1, 2, and the second half of 3 as possibilities.

[niner]

 

Planning on starting at 1mg per day.  A few questions:

• I've been taking MitoQ for about 9 months.  Since both C60 and MitoQ are mitochondrial targeted anti-oxidants, is there possible synergy or counter indication between these two substances?  In order to have as few variables changing at one time my inclination is to continue taking the MitoQ.  Thoughts?
• What is the best time of day to take C60oo?  Some seem to report C60oo giving them extra energy, others report C60 causing them to sleep excessively.  I personally am a chronic insomniac, so I would not like anything that will keep me awake.  On the other hand, something that encouraged some additional sleep would be most welcome (provided it's not in the middle of the day).  My suspicion is that because of the extremely long half life of this substance that once serum levels stabilize that it probably won't much matter what time of day I take it.  But, any informed advice would be most appreciated.
• Does it make any difference if I take it with or without food?

 

 

It would be interesting to know if there's any synergy between c60oo and MitoQ.  I can think of possible reasons for it to be at least partially additive, or for adding c60oo to make no difference, as long as you keep taking MitoQ.  If there's no difference, then c60oo certainly is cheaper, and it looks like it has better pharmacokinetics.  MitoQ wouldn't have the receptor-mediated c60 effects, like alcohol feeling different, or improvements in allergy/eczema.  I think a lot of people would prefer to feel normally drunk from drinking, rather than a "new kind of drunk", so that's an argument in favor of MitoQ.  Let us know how they compare.

 

I wouldn't expect any effects on sleep one way or the other.   Even the people who were reporting that it made them sleep a lot saw that effect go away once they stopped burning the candle at both ends.  I don't think it makes any difference what time you take it.  I don't even take it daily-- I take it once on the weekend.

 

I usually take it with food, but don't think it matters too much.  You might be able to make an argument that a tiny amount of fat would not be digested as well as a larger amount, suggesting that it would be better to take a small dose with some other fat, but that might be splitting hairs.

[Kalliste]

Im not qualified to say, but they might be going to slightly different mitochondrial membranes. Anyway I take 1.5ml a day, sometimes 3ml. It seems pretty safe. My main concern these days is that it will have some L-DOPA like sideeffect after five or ten years suddenly halting production of endogenous antioxidants.

[Daniel Cooper]

Well, I took my first does last night. 1ml.  As expected I note nothing special in terms of effects.  The taste was ...... interesting.

 

 

 

[sthira]

It's funny about c60 olive oil. I've read so many of other's nice experiences with it, increased excersize endurance, other things, and never noticed anything myself, despite taking it weekly for more than two years. So I quit taking it. Then I noticed all my life I've had this little bony protrusion on my left big toe. Like on top of the toe. On c60 it just sorta disappeared, and I never really thought much about it, the thing causes no discomfort, it's just sorta there, then gone on c60, now off c60 for several months, it's back.

This is all I've ever noticed about c60. But it has me wondering if maybe other things would be going on and I'm just not very aware. Hmm.

Maybe I should take pictures of this toe thing, then take c60 again and see if it disappears again... Hm

[sthira]

Also what purity are you veterans consuming now from SES? I seem to recall people have different effects with different purity levels? I notice SES now sells 99%, 99.5%, 99.95%, and 99.99%, each with escalated pricing.. Which do you (niner, turnbuckle) recommend at this time and why? Some of the c70 impurities in c60 may cause other effects?

[YOLF]

It's funny about c60 olive oil. I've read so many of other's nice experiences with it, increased excersize endurance, other things, and never noticed anything myself, despite taking it weekly for more than two years. So I quit taking it. Then I noticed all my life I've had this little bony protrusion on my left big toe. Like on top of the toe. On c60 it just sorta disappeared, and I never really thought much about it, the thing causes no discomfort, it's just sorta there, then gone on c60, now off c60 for several months, it's back.

This is all I've ever noticed about c60. But it has me wondering if maybe other things would be going on and I'm just not very aware. Hmm.

Maybe I should take pictures of this toe thing, then take c60 again and see if it disappears again... Hm

Have you gotten the protrusion diagnosed? Would be interesting to see what's at work here. 

[YOLF]

I think it's all 99.5 or higher that's used in the commercial C60.

 

Oh, and I just realized I spilled way too much glycine into my jars when measuring... That might have something to do with my excess sleep requirement when using it regularly... I do remember now that I always over measure... It's a very dense powder it seems. Usually a heaping spoon that I use is about 2-3g in other supplements. A slight spill of this stuff is about 2.5g. Use a very small scoop if you buy powder... I have a giant bag, so I have to use a fairly long spoon with big head on it...  

[niner]

Also what purity are you veterans consuming now from SES? I seem to recall people have different effects with different purity levels? I notice SES now sells 99%, 99.5%, 99.95%, and 99.99%, each with escalated pricing.. Which do you (niner, turnbuckle) recommend at this time and why? Some of the c70 impurities in c60 may cause other effects?

 

I've always used 99.95%, but I've also been chasing an anti-eczema effect for a long time.  I think that I have it figured out now, with it being based on a structure that goes through a peroxo intermediate, and also requiring more frequent dosing than the mitochondrial effects.  A while back I was thinking about trying something with more c70, since Luna's mast cell inhibitor is c70-based, and mast cell degranulation inhibition is probably the mechanism (or a mechanism) for the anti-eczema effect.  I got a deal on some 99.0% from SES, so I bought 5 grams, but I haven't used it yet.  The other 1% is mostly c70.  I'll probably give it a shot one of these days.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

Also what purity are you veterans consuming now from SES? I seem to recall people have different effects with different purity levels? I notice SES now sells 99%, 99.5%, 99.95%, and 99.99%, each with escalated pricing.. Which do you (niner, turnbuckle) recommend at this time and why? Some of the c70 impurities in c60 may cause other effects?

 

I've always used 99.95%, but I've also been chasing an anti-eczema effect for a long time.  I think that I have it figured out now, with it being based on a structure that goes through a peroxo intermediate, and also requiring more frequent dosing than the mitochondrial effects.  A while back I was thinking about trying something with more c70, since Luna's mast cell inhibitor is c70-based, and mast cell degranulation inhibition is probably the mechanism (or a mechanism) for the anti-eczema effect.  I got a deal on some 99.0% from SES, so I bought 5 grams, but I haven't used it yet.  The other 1% is mostly c70.  I'll probably give it a shot one of these days.

 

 

Niner -

 

I assume inhibition of mast cell degranulation be useful for someone that has issues with chronic allergies?  So would c70 potentially be of use for those battling chronic sinusitis and contact allergies?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 May 2015 - 04:46 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Study on c70 and mast cell inhibition.

 

http://www.nanomedjo...0015-8/abstract

 

 

 

Abstract

Fullerenes are carbon cages of variable size that can be derivatized with various side chain moieties resulting in compounds that are being developed into nanomedicines. Although fullerene use in several preclinical in vitro and in vivo models of disease has demonstrated their potential as diagnostic and therapeutic agents, little is known about how they enter cells, what organelles they target, and the time course for their cellular deposition. Fullerenes (C₇₀) that have already been shown to be potent inhibitors of mast cell (MC)–mediated allergic inflammation were conjugated with Texas red (TR) and used in conjunction with confocal microscopy to determine mechanisms of uptake, the organelle localization, and the duration they can be detected in situ. We show that C₇₀-TR are nonspecifically endocytosed into MCs, where they are shuttled throughout the cytoplasm, lysosomes, mitochondria, and into endoplasmic reticulum at different times. No nuclear or secretory granule localization was observed. The C₇₀-TR remained detectable within cells at 1 week. These studies show that MCs endocytose fullerenes, where they are shuttled to organelles involved with calcium and reactive oxygen species production, which may explain their efficacy as cellular inhibitors.

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 May 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Also what purity are you veterans consuming now from SES? I seem to recall people have different effects with different purity levels? I notice SES now sells 99%, 99.5%, 99.95%, and 99.99%, each with escalated pricing.. Which do you (niner, turnbuckle) recommend at this time and why? Some of the c70 impurities in c60 may cause other effects?

 

 

I don't see a 99.99% purity. The highest appears to be 99.95+, and any impurities represented in that number are other fullerenes, according to SES. There is also likely some toluene residue in all but those labeled "ultra pure Vacuum oven dried." So I always by the product labeled "600-9980."  

 

I've experimented with C70 (actually the raw extract that has 28% C70). This produced no negative effects until I tried taking a sub-milligram dose twice a day (70 micrograms of C70 per dose). After a few days I developed pains in both calves a very weird (and scary) pulsing in the back of my neck. I discontinued it and the effect disappeared. The report that C70 cycles through the ER is a hint of what happens. If it were to muck up protein synthesis intermittently, that might not be noticed, but do it continuously and it would result in severe problems. Like death.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 May 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[sthira]

Maybe the SES 99.99% c60 is new? Catalog number 600-9999

https://sesres.com/Carbon-60.asp

[Turnbuckle]

Maybe the SES 99.99% c60 is new? Catalog number 600-9999

https://sesres.com/Carbon-60.asp

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out. They appear to have (at least) two price lists up, one without the UHP product.

 

And I see they use the 99.95% C60 in their own olive oil product.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 May 2015 - 11:52 AM.

[niner]

I assume inhibition of mast cell degranulation be useful for someone that has issues with chronic allergies?  So would c70 potentially be of use for those battling chronic sinusitis and contact allergies?

 

I suspect it might.  We had one user here who reported a remarkable improvement in his asthma from c60oo.  Here's another abstract from Kepley's group regarding their mast cell stabilizers:
 

Clin Transl Sci. 2010 Aug;3(4):158-69. doi: 10.1111/j.1752-8062.2010.00212.x.
A new class of human mast cell and peripheral blood basophil stabilizers that differentially control allergic mediator release.
Norton SK1, Dellinger A, Zhou Z, Lenk R, Macfarland D, Vonakis B, Conrad D, Kepley CL.

Treatments for allergic disease block the effects of mediators released from activated mast cells and blood basophils. A panel of fullerene derivatives was synthesized and tested for their ability to preempt the release of allergic mediators in vitro and in vivo. The fullerene C(70)-tetraglycolic acid significantly inhibited degranulation and cytokine production from mast cells and basophils, while C(70)-tetrainositol blocked only cytokine production in mast cells and degranulation and cytokine production in basophils. The early phase of FcepsilonRI inhibition was dependent on the blunted release of intracellular calcium stores, elevations in reactive oxygen species, and several signaling molecules. Gene microarray studies further showed the two fullerene derivatives inhibited late phase responses in very different ways. C(70)-tetraglycolic acid was able to block mast cell-driven anaphylaxis in vivo, while C(70)-tetrainositol did not. No toxicity was observed with either compound. These findings demonstrate the biological effects of fullerenes critically depends on the moieties added to the carbon cage and suggest they act on different FcepsilonRI-specific molecules in mast cells and basophils. These next generation fullerene derivatives represent a new class of compounds that interfere with FcepsilonRI signaling pathways to stabilize mast cells and basophils. Thus, fullerene-based therapies may be a new approach for treating allergic diseases.

PMID: 20718816

The results one might obtain with a c70-fatty acid adduct are TBD... I think the odds of toxicity are fairly low, at least with low concentrations of c70.  That particular experiment has essentially already been run by people who have used lower purity c60 products like 99.5%.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

I assume inhibition of mast cell degranulation be useful for someone that has issues with chronic allergies?  So would c70 potentially be of use for those battling chronic sinusitis and contact allergies?

 

I suspect it might.  We had one user here who reported a remarkable improvement in his asthma from c60oo.  Here's another abstract from Kepley's group regarding their mast cell stabilizers:
 

Clin Transl Sci. 2010 Aug;3(4):158-69. doi: 10.1111/j.1752-8062.2010.00212.x.
A new class of human mast cell and peripheral blood basophil stabilizers that differentially control allergic mediator release.
Norton SK1, Dellinger A, Zhou Z, Lenk R, Macfarland D, Vonakis B, Conrad D, Kepley CL.

Treatments for allergic disease block the effects of mediators released from activated mast cells and blood basophils. A panel of fullerene derivatives was synthesized and tested for their ability to preempt the release of allergic mediators in vitro and in vivo. The fullerene C(70)-tetraglycolic acid significantly inhibited degranulation and cytokine production from mast cells and basophils, while C(70)-tetrainositol blocked only cytokine production in mast cells and degranulation and cytokine production in basophils. The early phase of FcepsilonRI inhibition was dependent on the blunted release of intracellular calcium stores, elevations in reactive oxygen species, and several signaling molecules. Gene microarray studies further showed the two fullerene derivatives inhibited late phase responses in very different ways. C(70)-tetraglycolic acid was able to block mast cell-driven anaphylaxis in vivo, while C(70)-tetrainositol did not. No toxicity was observed with either compound. These findings demonstrate the biological effects of fullerenes critically depends on the moieties added to the carbon cage and suggest they act on different FcepsilonRI-specific molecules in mast cells and basophils. These next generation fullerene derivatives represent a new class of compounds that interfere with FcepsilonRI signaling pathways to stabilize mast cells and basophils. Thus, fullerene-based therapies may be a new approach for treating allergic diseases.

PMID: 20718816

The results one might obtain with a c70-fatty acid adduct are TBD... I think the odds of toxicity are fairly low, at least with low concentrations of c70.  That particular experiment has essentially already been run by people who have used lower purity c60 products like 99.5%.

 

 

I will be interesting to see if the C60oo has any impact on my chronic allergic rhinitis.

 

Also, if I'm not mistaken some people have reported some anxiolytic effects from C60oo.  Maybe stabilizing their mast cells is down regulating histamine release and that is having an anti-anxeity effect?

 

I'd be curious what you find when you get around to trialing your 99.00% C60.
 

[Daniel Cooper]

So day 4 of the C60oo trial. 

 

Not a lot to report, but I did notice that I was very achy last night in the large muscle groups across the top of my back extending to the backs of both arms.  Certainly hadn't done any lifting to cause that, but it may be entirely unrelated.  Who knows.

 

 

[Aurel]

@niner: Don't you take C60oo anymore?