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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


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#1 sushil_yadav

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 05 September 2005 - 05:45 PM


The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.


A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.


Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct.

Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits.

A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy.

A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself.



I am trying to get the following experiment conducted in a psychophysiology/ bio-chemistry laboratory.

There is a link between visual / verbal speed ( in perception, memory,
imagery ) and the bio-chemical state of the brain and the body.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual and verbal processing
associated with the emotion slows down ( stops / freezes ).

The degree of difficulty of an emotion depends upon the degree of
freezing (of visuals and words ) required to intensify and sustain that
particular emotion.


Experiment:

Subjects (preferably actors specialising in tragedy / tragic roles )
will be asked to watch a silent video film showing any of the
following:-

(1) Human suffering.
(2) Animal suffering.
(3) Suffering ( Destruction ) of Air / Water / Land / Trees.

Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer.

The chemical changes associated with the emotion in the body(blood) would be measured by appropriate methods.

The silent video film will be shown at different speeds :
(1) 125% of actual speed.
(2) Actual/real speed.
(3) 75% of actual speed.
(4) 50% of actual speed.
(5) 25% of actual speed.


Results :

(1) Intensity of emotion increases with the decrease in visual speed.
(2) Intensity of emotion is maximum when visual speed is minimum (25%
of actual speed)
(3) The amount of chemical change associated with the emotion in the
body(blood) will be found to increase with the decrease in visual speed.
(4) The chemical change is maximum when visual speed is minimum.
(5) The amount of chemical change will increase with the decrease in
breathing rate. Breathing becomes so slow and non-rhythmic that it stops
for some time at the inhalation/ exhalation stages.

The above co-relations will be valid for all subjects -even for those who cannot feel pain/ grief. Such subjects will experience emotion associated with boredom/ discomfort/ restlessness/ irritability/ uneasiness. The chemicals released will be different but the co-relation between visual speed and amount of chemical will be same( the breathing rates will be different/ fast). All subjects will experience some kind of emotion.

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when weexperience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etc… ]

In the 2nd stage of experiment we shall replace the silent video film with a Narrator ( Audio only ) and repeat the procedure thereby establishing the link between intensity of emotion and verbal speed. The narrator will slow down verbal speed by-- speaking slowly, stretching words, repetition of words/ sentences & making use of
pause/ silence between words.

Please note:
(1) A thinking mind cannot intensify / sustain any emotion.
While this statement is generally true for all emotions, it is particularly true for all painful emotions.

(2) Pain / remorse / empathy cannot be experienced in a society in which visual (verbal) speed and breathing- rates are fast . It is impossible.


PROOF.
Proof of the link between pain and slow visuals / words :-

In the last century man has made thousands of movies / films on various
themes / subjects. Whenever pain / tragedy is shown in any film the
visuals ( scenes ) and words ( dialogues ) are always slowed down. In
many films tragedy is shown in slow motion. At the most intense moment
of pain the films almost become static / stationary.

Tragedy-films provide direct proof / evidence of the link between pain
and slowness.

Pain can intensify / sustain only when visual ( and verbal ) speed slows
down( stops/ freezes).


Change in visual speed over the years.

One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds )
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him.

Today man sits in front of TV / Computer and watches the rapidly
changing visuals / audio.

He sits in a vehicle ( car / train / bus ) and as it moves he watches
the rapidly changing visuals.

He turns the pages of a book / newspaper / magazine and sees many
visuals / text in a short span.


Change in verbal speed over the years.

In ancient times verbal processing was “live” in nature—ie it happened when people actually spoke.
Today there is non-stop verbal processing inside the mind through print and electronic media ( newspapers, books, magazines, radio, television, computer etc…) as a result of which the verbal content & speed has increased thousands of times.


The speed of visuals ( and words ) has increased so much during the last
one hundred years that today the human brain has become incapable of
focussing on slow visuals /words through perception, memory, imagery.

If we cannot focus on slow visuals / words we cannot experience emotions associated with slow visuals /words.



Before the advent of Industrial Revolution Man's thinking was primarily
limited to :

(a) visual processing ( slow visuals )
(b) verbal / language processing ( slow words )

Today there are many kinds of fast thinking :

(1) visual processing ( fast visuals )
(2) verbal / language processing ( fast words )
(3) Scientific / Technical thinking ( fast )
(4) Industrial thinking ( fast )
(5) Business thinking ( fast )

(3), (4) & (5) are associated with Numbers / Symbols / Equations /
Graphs /Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc…

As long as the mind is doing this kind of thinking it cannot feel any
emotion - not an iota of emotion.

In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
In a thinking ( scientific / industrial ) society emotion itself becomes extinct.

Emotion is what remains in the mind when visual/ verbal processing slows down (stops/ freezes)


There are certain categories of people who feel more emotion (subjective experience ) than others.

If we attempt to understand why (and how ) they feel more emotion we can learn a lot about emotion.

Writers, poets, actors, painters ( and other artists )

Writers
Writers do verbal ( and associated visual) processing whole day- every day.
They do slow verbal ( and associated visual) processing every day.
(A novel that we read in 2 hours might have taken 2 years to write. This is also the reason why the reader can never feel the intensity & duration of emotion experienced by the writer )

Poets
Poets do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. There is more emotion in poetry than in prose. This happens because there are very few words ( and associated visuals ) in poetry than in any other kind of writing. There is a very high degree of freezing / slowing down of visuals & words in poetry.

Actors
Actors do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. During shooting / rehearsal they repeat the dialogues ( words ) again and again ( the associated visuals / scenes also get repeated along with the dialogues )

Painters
Painters do visual ( and associated verbal ) processing whole day- every day. They do extremely slow visual processing - The visual on the canvas changes only when the painter adds to what already exists on the canvas.


There are some important points to be noted :

All these people do visual & verbal processing - whole day - every day.
They do slow visual & verbal processing.
They do not do scientific / industrial / business processing whole day - every day.

Most of the city people doing mental work either do this kind of mental processing which is associated with Numbers / Symbols/ Equations / Graphs / Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc… or they do fast visual ( verbal ) processing whole day - every day.

This kind of thinking ( processing ) has come into existence only during the last 200 years and has destroyed our emotional ability ( circuits ).


Once we speed up our minds we become incapable of slowing down [it would take years of effort to slow down]. One can understand it this way - A supercomputer cannot process at the rate of an ordinary computer. Once we speed up [and we have been speeding up for several generations now] we cannot slow down because the neural circuits get altered - the bio-chemistry of the brain and its anatomy changes.



Self-Assessment of ( subjective ) intensity of emotion is almost always wrong.

Suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of a particular emotion that
can be experienced by any human being is 100 units.

Let us suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of that particular emotion ever
experienced by two people A & B in their entire life is :
A - 100units
B - 20 units

Now suppose A & B are made subjects on a particular day and are asked
to feel that particular emotion under experimental conditions ( or
outside the laboratory ) and the intensity &duration they actually experience is :

A - 90 units
B - 18 units

If A & B are then asked to indicate the intensity &duration of emotion on a scale
of 0 -10 their response is likely to be ;

A - 9
B - 9

Who is right and who is wrong ?
A is right.
B is wrong - B is wrong by a wide margin - B has experienced an
intensity(and duration) of 18 units out of a maximum of 100 units and his correct / actual score should be 1.8

Self- assessment ( self rating ) can be accurate only if people have
the capacity to experience the highest intensity &duration ( units ) of the
particular emotion under study.



In small(slow)agriculture-based societies the mind used to experience a state of emotion all the time because of physical work and slow visual/verbal processing . People who do physical work experience the same good subjective-feeling which is experienced by people who do physical excercise. [People who do physical work also sleep much better than people who do mental work - the quality of sleep is much better]. If we read one thousand-year-old literature we will not come across the term "boredom" - the concept of boredom did not exist in slow societies. There were long gaps between different visuals and between words/ sentences - and people had the ability to experience/ tolerate the gaps - it was normal for them.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual / verbal processing slows down ( stops / freezes ). In an Industrial (thinking) society people experience very little emotion because of fast ( visual / verbal / scientific / industrial / business ) thinking.

Suppose the maximum intensity and duration of a particular emotion ( for most people ) in a fast society has reduced to 5 units ( from 100 units that people used to experience in earlier /slower societies ).

If such people experience 4 units of emotion they will give themselves a
rating /score of 8 on a scale of 0-10 whereas their actual score should
be 0.4


[Please note :
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate.
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate.
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute.
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences.]


Thoughts and Emotions are interlinked - but different things - totally/ completly different.

Words can be spoken - words can be read - words can be heard.

Emotion is a subjective-experience. Other examples of subjective experience are taste, smell, touch, headache, stomach pain.

One can understand the difference this way :

When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. Apple can give us the taste of apple - but apple is not taste.

If we pour apple juice into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste - it does not have the ability to feel taste.

If a person eats an apple he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to generate taste from apple.

Words/ Visuals can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions - but words/ visuals are not emotions.



In every field there is easy work/activity and difficult work/activity.

In mathematics there is easy mathematics and difficult mathematics. Everyone can add 2+4 within microseconds. A PhD level problem of mathematics would take hours [or more] to solve - and that too only by someone who has spent 20 - 25 years learning mathematics upto PhD level.

Same way in the field of emotions there are easy emotions and difficult emotions. Easy emotions are evoked within nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds - anger, lust, fear, pleasure, entertainment and excitement are some examples. These emotions are associated with fast breathing and heart-rate. These emotions don"t require gaps between thinking to evoke, intensify and sustain. These are the emotions that can be found everywhere in today's fast society.

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain.


The experiments I have proposed are primarily meant for those people who understand only the language of science. We don't need experiments to understand that our present lifestyle is destroying our Minds and Environment - the evidence is everywhere - left, right and center. The craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived on this planet for thousands of years without needing scientific proof to understand something. It is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/ Environment. Who needs more science or more scientific proof. Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.


IQ Vs EQ

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.
Change is an inherent feature of IQ.
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed.

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes.
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition.
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.

IQ and EQ are contradictory.
IQ and EQ are opposites.
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional.



(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]



Mental work is injurious to the mind and planet.

Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.


Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.


Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods]. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.


The nature of mental work is such that man has to do new mental work every day- in fact he has to do new mental work every moment- Man cannot repeat in the next moment the mental work that he has already done in the previous moment.

A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage.

An engineer cannot design the same machine again and again –once he has made a machine he will try to make changes/ design a new one.

A writer cannot write the same article every day- he will be forced to write something new every day/ every moment (This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments).


Discussions, Debates and Arguments.

Let us examine how much discussion we are collectively having in Industrial Society every day.

Millions of pages in print – newspapers / books / magazines.
Millions of web-pages on internet every day.

Now add to this all the conversation (discussion) we are having through radio / television / telephone and several other media every day.

And add to this all the discussion we are having through face-to-face interaction.

The volume of discussion per individual in one week is greater than the total discussion someone living in pre-industrial society would have in his entire life.

There is too much discussion in modern society.
Discussion is not solving our problems – discussion itself has become a problem – a gigantic problem.


A society that does mental work will discuss itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will argue itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will debate itself to destruction [extinction]


A society that does mental work can never stop discussions / debates / arguments – it is impossible. It will discuss / debate / argue till the last moment of it’s existence.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are diseases of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.


Discussions / debates / arguments can end only in agriculture-based societies that do physical work.

We cannot do physical-work and mental-work simultaneously.

There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work.
If one is high [more] the other has got to be low [less]

If we want to do physical work we have to reduce mental activity by the same proportion.
If we want to do mental work we have to reduce physical activity by the same proportion.

There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies.




Change is an inherent feature of mental work.

Since change is an inherent feature of mental work - a society that does mental work can never be at peace with itself – it is impossible.

A society that does mental work will always be restless.

Only those societies that do physical work [agriculture and related activities] can find contentment and peace.



As long as cities exist we can neither save the environment nor the mind.

To save the [ remaining ] environment from destruction man will have to
return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].

To save the mind from mental diseases man will have to return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].



Criminality and Abnormality.

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember - plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears]

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ]

The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed.

Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times.

There is an arsenal of 50,000 nuclear missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.


What could be more criminal than this.
What could be more abnormal than this.

Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.




Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world.

Big Mystery.

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars.


The entire Industrial Society is a terrorist.
The Military-Industrial-Complex is the real terrorist.
Science and Technology is the terrorist.



Make things
Buy things
Sell things

This is not the purpose of life.

Destroy Shopping Culture.

No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.
Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less.




There was a time when Man knew nothing about the number of species and millions of species existed.
Today Man knows the names of millions of species and nothing is left of the species.



It took millions of years for millions of species to slowly come into existence on earth - and man has decimated all other species.

After destroying millions of highly-developed species on earth Man is today searching for a few molecules of life in outer-space.

If a few microbes, a few molecules of methane / water are found on Mars - it becomes the newspaper headline.

They call it progress.



The following is about to come true.

Nature can exist

(1) before man.
(2) after man.
(3) not with man.



Destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. In pre-Industrial Society people destroyed environment primarily for food. In Industrial Society people are destroying environment for food and consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all unnecessary consumer goods.

Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than
99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.

Environment cannot be saved by recycling.

The attempt of an industrial society to save the environment by recycling is like shooting someone 10,000 times and then trying to save him by taking out one bullet.



Time is running out for this planet.


sushil_yadav

[I am seeking help from volunteers in spreading this message far and wide]

Edited by sushil_yadav, 06 March 2007 - 01:09 PM.

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#2 bossplaya Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Brisbane, Australia

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:37 AM

That was a large and very interesting post. What you mentioned about IQ, EQ, sameness and change, could be tied in with what I have stated in another thread on this forum ("The Singularity Is -- Oh, Never Mind'). I was responding to an article on the decreasing levels of innovation in the world.

You said

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.
Change is an inherent feature of IQ.
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed.

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes.
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition.
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.

IQ and EQ are contradictory.
IQ and EQ are opposites.
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional.

So innovation is a product of IQ. I said in my post about how the impact of an event is lost when it becomes a cliche',

Humans do seek novelty, but one thing I think we need to do is learn to live with this re-hashing of existing truth without becoming sick of it, or contemptuous of re-expression. What I mean is, for example, when we roll our eyes at the 'happy ending' in a movie because we have seen it so many times before. That happy ending is not something to be contemptuous of as a cliche, but something to be appreciated as an expression of our highest ideals and desires


So what I was talking about is how we are thinking more that have seen and heard it all before, and making cynical judgements based on that, instead of feeling and appreciating the repetition, constancy & sameness of it. It's like we are junkies for our next big fix of novelty and entertainment, and that is how we become bored and complacent in this society -- because the things that used to elicit much emotional response do not have as much impact anymore. We can watch multiple deaths and see people in pain on TV or in the movies or video games without feeling an iota of empathy these days. It's like, death and violence are acceptable staples of everyday life, yet we are ashamed to show love and sex and censor emotions out.

On the other hand, I'm not against intelligence or IQ, because I have a high IQ myself and do think a lot. But I do believe that we need to find a way to harmonize our intelligence with nature.

Edited by bossplaya, 04 November 2005 - 08:06 AM.

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#3 bgwowk Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 20 October 2005 - 07:42 PM

Misanthropic nonsense. Followers of this genre will find the writings of Theodore Kaczynski to be much more coherent, even if ultimately just as pathological.

---BrianW
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#4 bossplaya Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Brisbane, Australia

Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:12 AM

Misanthropic:

Characterized by a hatred or mistrustful scorn for humankind.


The content of sushil's post did have some value. I don't find it misanthropic, but rather perceive more of a philanthropic or humanitarian thread of meaning within the article. I do know what you mean, though -- that there is just an underlying misanthropic element within it, because it seems anti-intellectual or anti-civilization. Sure, there are a few things not quite right about this article, such as the way it generalizes in black and white about its premises. What I tend to do is filter out the 'gold' from the 'dust', extract any ideas of value from the article, and build from that.

Edited by bossplaya, 04 November 2005 - 08:06 AM.

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#5 bgwowk Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:46 AM

To paraphrase Ayn Rand, all animals have attributes such as speed, strength, flight capability or other attributes that allow them to survive in a particular ecological niche. Humans have evolved a dependence on one attribute above all else: intellect, and the use of intellect to modify their environment. For a human, intelligence is not optional. It is ESSENTIAL for survival. To denigrate intellect, and the natural products of human intellect, like science, technology, and industry, is to denigrate human life itself.

The post was a disorganized collection of garbage.

---BrianW
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#6 bossplaya Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Brisbane, Australia

Posted 21 October 2005 - 03:19 AM

I can see things from your point of view, Brian. There is a certain signal-to-noise ratio within communication, and to you, that post by Sushil was nothing but noise. All I can say is that amongst it was also what I perceived to be some signal, or some valid data. For example, when he mentions that in this day and age where everything moves so fast, we need to be able to take the time to slow down a bit and feel more; be more in touch with emotions instead of living primarily in the head (or the "ivory tower"). Maybe there is a correlation between processing speed and intensity of emotion. Also, when the post describes the inherent flaws in subjective rating scales as a research method. It can also be seen as true that the since the Industrial Revolution, there has been changes to the way people live and relate to the planet that are destructive and alienating. However, like you, I disagree wholeheartedly with the statement that man and nature cannot coexist, and other such offhand generalizations within his post about intelligence being a "curse".

You can dismiss the entire thing as garbage; that's entirely up to you and I don't hold it against you. But that's basically doing the same thing as he is doing, when he dismisses all of intelligence and its products as a curse to the planet. For one thing, and I also direct this at the author of the post in question, it is going to take some intelligent solutions and some heart to save this planet and humankind from future destruction.
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#7 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 21 October 2005 - 04:37 AM

bossplaya - you are right about Repetition, Constancy and Sameness not existing in a Transient society. A society that does mental work will keep on making new things - a new model of mobile phone every week.

The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment - but there are people who just don't seem to notice it.


Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy. The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems - besides destroying the environment. Our Minds cannot be spiritual or peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be spiritual or peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth.


sushil yadav

FreeInfoSociety

ePhilosopher

Corrupt

Edited by sushil_yadav, 30 April 2007 - 07:08 AM.

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#8 bgwowk Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 21 October 2005 - 05:39 PM

What a pathetic pile of drivel. Technology has created more great music, art, entertainment and EMOTIONAL DEPTH than anything that existed in any pre-industrial era. It will go on to create greater depths of sublime experience than you can possibly imagine.

http://www.paradise-engineering.com/

I am tremendously fortunate and *happy* to be living in a technological society. One of the most emotional moments of my life was climbing out of Houston on a jet aircraft at night watching city lights shining through low-lying fog. At that moment, I wondered how anyone could behold such a sight and not know that humans were capable of achieving anything. Anything!

You, Mr. Yadav, are lucky to be typing on a computer keyboard rather than having suffered and died as child from one of many horrible illnesses that are rampant in pre-industrial societies. Now go home and rethink your life! [tung]

---BrianW
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#9 Kalepha Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 21 October 2005 - 07:26 PM

The problem with persons like sushil_yadav is that they have a severely incomplete and partially false belief system and don't know it. This makes them unwittingly destructive to themselves and society. Anti-intellectuals are not amenable to reason. They parade their babble about humility and ironically have no clue about the hubris it takes to normalize it. Only forces of non-persuasion will take care of them, either violently or peacefully – but they asked for non-intelligent nature's crapshoot.
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#10 bossplaya Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Brisbane, Australia

Posted 22 October 2005 - 09:18 AM

The problem is, that sushil yadav mistakenly believes all of technology and intelligence to be the enemy -- while it is only certain aspects about the way we USE our technology and intelligence that can lead to destructive outcomes. This is fairly self-evident. Technology and intelligence are double-edged swords; they are not antithetical or harmful towards nature and the environment per se.

These are exciting times indeed. Now, I also feel fortunate to be living in a technological society; technology can be beautiful. But you guys, who feel tremendously fortunate and happy to be living in today's world, I need to point out one fact:

It's easy to praise today's society when you are at the receiving end of its benefits. If you can afford to be flying in a jet aircraft at Houston, then it is very likely that you are quite well-off compared to the disadvantaged members of society, who are unable to experience such great things. I think sushil comes from India, which is a Third-World country, and is most probably not as well-advantaged as you guys. You need to understand that. I have seen the Third World and experienced economic disadvantage myself. That's where these points of view are coming from. Picture a factory worker, who has spend time away from loved ones for the greater portion of his day, to spend every day performing the same repetitive, boring and meaningless task, and getting paid a pitiful, below minimum wage -- which is barely enough to buy food, pay the bills and/or support a family. Is this person going to praise the Industrial Revolution for his sublime and emotionally satyisfying lifestyle? [tung] I think not. Sociological research into history shows that there were many pre-industrial lifestyles that, while materially of a lower standard, were more meaningful and satisfying than that of the unskilled factory worker. They did less work, only 4 hours a day on average, and enjoyed more leisure time and spend a third of their year partying and throwing festivals! An example is the skilled craftsmen of older, pre-industrial times, who took much pride in their work, and whose workplace was actually at home. All I am saying is that some tweaking of the imbalances within our society has to be done.

Onto the topic of "technology vs. nature", that is a rampant fallacy. In fact, I have done extensive research and submitted an academic paper that can prove that Nature IS Technology. Consider the following quotes from my paper:

----------------------------------------------------------



“Our genetic system, which is the universal system of all life on the planet, is
digital to the core” – WIRED Magazine

All human beings are fundamentally cyborgs, through and through. On the surface, the appearance of organic nature may seem far removed from computer science and technology. However, in actual fact, if we look beneath the surface, everything which
is supposed to be in the domain of science and cyber-technology – digital information
systems, nodes, networks, machines, and programmed actions – are actually
rediscoveries of the fundamental operational principles of the DNA-based biosystem
found in nature. First of all, according to biologist Richard Dawkins (1996), all
organisms are digitally coded:

"After Watson and Crick, we know that genes themselves, within their minute
internal structure, are long strings of pure digital information. What is more, they are
truly digital, in the full and strong sense of computers and compact disks, not in the
weak sense of the nervous system. The genetic code is not a binary code as in
computers, nor an eight-level code as in some telephone systems, but a quaternary
code, with four symbols. The machine code of the genes is uncannily computerlike.
Apart from differences in jargon, the pages of a molecular-biology journal might be
interchanged with those of a computer engineering journal."

Secondly, DNA could be considered as the original digital nanotechnology for
producing a functional, self-sustaining cybernetic system; it is a self-replicating
information code stored in a protein medium, which organizes itself into a vast
diversity of networks within networks. In support of this argument, Stanford
anthropologist Jeremy Narby, in his book “The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins
of Knowledge (1998), states:

"DNA can be considered to be biological nanosoftware; ribosomes, large scale
molecular constructors. Enzymes are what Nature chose as truly functional
molecular sized assemblers. Genetic engineers are not creating new tools per se, but
rather, adapting and improvising from what Nature has already provided. Future
generations of engineers, armed with molecular engineering techniques, will have a
real chance of imitating and perhaps improving on Nature.”
‘...Biologists confirm this notion by using a precise array of anthropocentric and
technological metaphors to describe DNA, proteins, and enzymes. DNA is a text, or
a program, or data, containing information, which is read and transcribed into
messenger-RNA's. The latter feed into ribosomes, which are molecular computers
that translate the instructions according to the genetic code. They build the rest of
the cell's machinery, namely the proteins and enzymes, which are miniaturized
robots that construct and maintain the cell.”


----------------------------------------------------

Edited by bossplaya, 22 October 2005 - 10:53 AM.

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#11 Kalepha Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 22 October 2005 - 12:29 PM

All I am saying is that some tweaking of the imbalances within our society has to be done.

Right. But it won't happen by renouncing intelligence or capitalism. It will happen by increasing our intelligence and being better public policy makers. Capitalism nonetheless will usher us into the next epoch.

... Nature IS Technology.

Of course.
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#12 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 26 October 2005 - 08:38 AM

Think Positive.

Psychologists say -- Think Positive.
Politicians say – Think Positive.
Economists say – Think Positive.
Scientists say – Think Positive.
Everyone says – Think Positive.

Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up.
Think Positive.

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.
Think Positive.

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep.
Think Positive.

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds.
Think Positive.

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.
Think Positive.

Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality.

This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.


Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment.

sushil yadav

FreeInfoSociety

ePhilosopher

Corrupt

Edited by sushil_yadav, 30 April 2007 - 07:09 AM.

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#13 bgwowk Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 26 October 2005 - 04:43 PM

The sun is getting brighter as it depletes its hydrogen fuel. In only one billion years it will 10% brighter than it is today, and all the oceans will boil off into space. ALL life on earth will end (if it wasn't already ended by an asteriod or comet impact before then).

Without technological intervention (many forms of intervention are possible) LIFE ON EARTH IS DOOMED. Humans and our technological descendents are the only chance life on earth has... the only chance to avoid total extinction forever. Allowing all water on earth to boil into space is the most environmentally hostile act possible.

More than that, it will be human technology that not only protects the earth, but that seeds earth life and its derivatives throughout the galaxy. The choice between an industrial society and a stone-age existence is therefore the choice between life on earth ending in one billion years vs. life on earth and a whole galaxy lasting one trillion years (and perhaps more).

---BrianW

Earth isn't sick, she's pregnant! (David Buth)

Edited by bgwowk, 26 October 2005 - 09:56 PM.

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#14 hallucinogen Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Atlantic Ocean
  • yes

Posted 01 November 2005 - 03:26 PM

LOLERSKATES, First post is full of bs. Do you even know the real history or you believe in the modern history which is like reading a fiction novel...
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#15 Karomesis Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Massachusetts, USA

Posted 01 November 2005 - 04:22 PM

can we all just get along [lol] Allow me to interject, The initial post was missing an important hedonistic contribution, the delegation of the senses to some far removed place is false. The advent of industrialisation has left much more time to the hedonistic pursuits, wealthy individuals today would have made even the roman emporers look spartan by comparison.

Private yachts the lenght of football feilds, 15 cars in garages, wine and other libations that cost more than some people make in decades of busting ass in a cubicle like dilbert, every need is met and the mind turns toward the pursuit of pleasure, that is why I mentioned in another thread that the transition of pornography to a completely digital medium will make some people very, very ,very wealthy. Full immersion virtual reality will make todays internet videos, pictures, chats seem primitive by comparison. "reach out and touch someone" will take on a whole different meaning [:o]

So I guess my answer to the initial post is that the mind is experiencing a period of enlightenment like never before in the history of homo sapiens, we will soon be able to exchange ideas with people who do not even speak our language in real time through voice recognition technology and primitive people in fucking mud huts can come to the understanding that there really aren't 17 vigins waiting for them in paradise after they blow up a bus full of their fellow citizenry. They will understand that their religion is a fraud as are all, and will come to the place where they regard the instigators and prosletysers of such nonsense as mere charlatans and rascals. When the nanotech golden age comes about our minds will be augmented to the point of more resembling a paragon of evolution instead of some magical being up in the sky who continually fucked up his design and had to begin anew.
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#16 bossplaya Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Brisbane, Australia

Posted 04 November 2005 - 07:21 AM

The important fact of the present time is not the struggle between capitalism and socialism but the struggle between industrial civilization and humanity.

--Bertrand Russell, 1923

Modes of production establish constraints with which humanity must come to terms, and the constraints of the industrial mode of production are peculiarly demanding...Industrial production...confronts men with machines that embody "imperatives" if they are to be used at all, and these imperatives lead easily to the organization of work, of life, even of thought, in ways that accommodate men to machines rather than the much more difficult alternative.

--Robert Heilbroner, The Human Prospect


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOSSPLAYA SAYS:

I don't doubt that industrial civilization has been an important stage for our species to go through. However, we will eventually have to transcend the lower materialist thinking in three-dimensional spacetime and begin to incorporate spirituality, with technology, with some of our ancestral wisdom.

We don't want to end up in a bleak, postmodernist future where everything is just meaningless simulacra, without any trace of roots in the real and true. You are seeing a grand future, a hedonistic, nanotech, golden age -- a paragon of evolution; and I don't want to destroy that vision, but I do think that we need to "check ourselves before we wreck ourselves". There is some shit that is getting out of hand on earth, and it can all be seen as part of the 'labour pains', but things can go one way or the other. It's up to us to shape the future the right way [thumb]

After all, we don't want Max Weber's closing phrase of the following quote to be correct, when he said in 1904:

No one knows who will live in this cage in the future, or whether at the end of this tremendous development entirely new prophets will arise, or there will be a great rebirth of old ideas and ideals or, if neither, mechanized petrification embellished with a sort of convulsive self-importance. For of the last stage of this cultural development, it might well be truly said: 'Specialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has obtained a level of civilization never before achieved.

Edited by bossplaya, 04 November 2005 - 08:26 AM.

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#17 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 11 November 2005 - 09:43 AM

The Illogical Logic of Man.

A few birds have got infected with bird-flu and Man has started killing millions of birds.
They say birds are a threat to humans.

Sometime ago there was Mad Cow disease and Man started killing hundreds of thousands of cows.
They said cows are a threat to humans.

Ever since Man came into existence - millions of humans with infectious diseases have transferred such diseases to millions of other people - and will continue to infect millions more in future.
Such people are a threat to rest of the people.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all infected people.

It is Man who has killed millions of people in Wars and other forms of Violence – and can kill millions more any time in future.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all people.

It is the human species which is the greatest threat to humans and all other life on this planet - In fact the human species is the only species which is a threat to all life on Earth.

Man has decimated all Animal and Plant species – polluted the Sky and Oceans - and poisioned every square inch of earth.

In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years.

Humans pose the greatest threat to other humans.
Humans pose the greatest threat to all other life on earth.

The so-called Rational and Civilized Man should follow the same logic here - and destroy the entire human race.

sushil yadav

FreeInfoSociety

ePhilosopher

Corrupt

Edited by sushil_yadav, 30 April 2007 - 07:10 AM.

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#18 tbeal Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:brixham, Devon, United kingdom of great Britian

Posted 16 November 2005 - 07:16 PM

I am sorry but the very easy answer to any such rubbish as the statements made and beleived by people like sushil yadav is to remember that nature itself is red in tooth and claw. predators and parasites kill millions of annimals every day and have done so for millions of years often making whole species extinct in order to survive. Nature is 1 big comptetion for the limited resources and billions have been killed in this fight the small numbers humans have killed is nothing compared to the collosal amount of killing nature herself has done. And we alone with our rational AS WELL as emotional minds are the only species to have any concept of caring for the natural world if we were to give up civilisation and go back to our "natural" hunter-gatherer state we would actually kill and hurt far more annimals. Nature isn't the ideal that you beleive it to be and us it's enemy nature is in fact hostile and cruel and we it's ally because we believe it to be virtous. Either that or stop typing on that machine you hippycrit
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#19 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 17 November 2005 - 09:40 AM

You are very ignorant of reality.

Yes - Animals kill other animals. But they do so only for food. There is nothing wrong in this.



It is the human species which is destroying Nature for purposes other than food. It is the human species which is doing everything wrong - right from A to Z.

We need just a few things to live.
And we are making thousands of things.

Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.



This is what is wrong.
This is what has destroyed Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

Overactivity.
Exponential Overactivity.




No animal ever indulged in such overactivity.




sushil yadav
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#20 tbeal Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:brixham, Devon, United kingdom of great Britian

Posted 25 November 2005 - 08:45 PM

utter rubbish virtually every population of a species that ever has or ever will exist has overindulged as you put it . Has out stretched it's resources and grown too large to support all it's members organisms are kept in check by a lack of resources not by any virtue they have for protecting the rest of the natural world. Also every animal that has ever had desires and urges has seeked to satiate those urges and have killed and been killed through out time. The only difference between us and the rest of the animal kingdom is that we have been much more succesful in acheiving our desires and our now reaching our overpopulation point. - we have meerly acheived what all annimals seek to there is no morality in nature and therefore their is no lack of morality in human kind by comparison.

But continue beleiving in your ghia (sorry can't spell) like theories and go and hug a tree we don't care
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#21 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 01 December 2005 - 04:44 AM

There was a time when Man used to say –


I work in order to feed my family.
I work in order to put Food on the Table.


Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.

Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.


Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table.
There is too much weight on the Table.
And the Table has begun to creak.


The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys.

The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans - the Rivers and Lakes.



There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food.


We need just a few things to live.
And we are making thousands of things.

Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.


Destroy Shopping Culture.
Destroy Industrial Society.


Go back to Simple Living.
Go back to putting just Food on the Table.


sushil_yadav

Edited by sushil_yadav, 05 May 2006 - 02:05 PM.

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#22 prismatic_light Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Talent, Oregon.

Posted 13 December 2005 - 06:05 PM

That earlier point was very good. No life will exist on earth without technological intervention in a set amount of years due to the sun. Life cannot exist in harmony forever if it follows its natural path, excluding intellect.

Without competition, progress dies. Look at the Soviet Union (Former((Or so they say!))(((Kidding))))). We must compete with nature, because at this moment, it's the only thing we have to work with. And it's not going to make any nanobots for us. Well, at least not too many useful ones.

Sure, we could all just sit back and let the good times roll. I would personally love to kill a deer with a rock. But, then again, I'd have to let another deer kill me back. Can a deer hold a rock? Thank you opposable thumbs!
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#23 eternaltraveler Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Silicon Valley, CA

Posted 13 December 2005 - 07:14 PM

Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.

Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.


you could lead by example and get rid of your computer ;))
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#24 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 22 December 2005 - 03:58 AM

Lifestyle of Mass Destruction.

Destruction is an inherent feature of Development.

Progress = Destruction of Nature.
Development = Destruction of Nature.


We can have Sustainable Lifestyle.
We cannot have Sustainable Development.

Development can never be sustainable.
Sustainability and Development cannot exist together.


Development and Sustainability are opposites.
Development and Sustainability are contradictory.

Sustainable Living is associated with consuming less – being satisfied with a simple and frugal life.
Development is associated with never ending desires – always wanting more.


Sustainable lifestyle requires Constancy.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Sameness.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Repetition.


Development is associated with Change.
Development is associated with New.
Development is associated with Transience.


Industrial Societies can never be sustainable – When you make thousands of consumer goods you kill Nature - you kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

A Society that does mental work [city based] can never be sustainable - it will keep on making consumer goods - destroying the environment moment by moment.

Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable.


The term Sustainable Development is like the terms

Stationary Walk.
Silent Talk.
Wakeful Sleep.
Dark Sun
Gentle Torture.
Dry Rain.
Peaceful War.


sushil_yadav

Edited by sushil_yadav, 05 May 2006 - 02:06 PM.

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#25 deusexmachina Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:10 AM

Instinct

Sushil yadav, allow me to address the anxieties underlying your concerns, rather than try to answer every possible question you might have left unvoiced.
First, let us consider the fact that for the first time ever, as a species, immortality is in our reach.
This simple fact has far-reaching implications. It requires radical rethinking and revision of our genetic imperatives.
It also requires planning and forethought that run in direct opposition to our neural pre-sets.
I find it helpful at times like these to remind myself that our true enemy is Instinct.
Instinct was our mother when we were an infant species.
Instinct coddled us and kept us safe in those hardscrabble years when we hardened our sticks and cooked our first meals above a meager fire
and started at the shadows that leapt upon the cavern's walls.
But inseparable from Instinct is its dark twin, Superstition.
Instinct is inextricably bound to unreasoning impulses, and today we clearly see its true nature. Instinct has just become aware of its irrelevance, and like a cornered beast, it will not go down without a bloody fight.
Instinct would inflict a fatal injury on our species.
Instinct creates its own oppressors, and bids us rise up against them.
Instinct tells us that the unknown is a threat, rather than an opportunity.
Instinct slyly and covertly compels us away from change and progress.
Instinct, therefore, must be expunged.
It must be fought tooth and nail, beginning with the basest of human urges. I'm sure I don't have to remind you that the alternative, if you can call it that, is total extinction - in union with all the other unworthy branches of the species.

Collaboration

In our current unparalleled enterprise, refusal to collaborate is simply a refusal to grow--an insistence on suicide, if you will.
Did the lungfish refuse to breathe air? It did not.
It crept forth boldly while its brethren remained in the blackest ocean abyss, with lidless eyes forever staring at the dark, ignorant and doomed despite their eternal vigilance.
Would we model ourselves on the trilobite?
Are all the accomplishments of humanity fated to be nothing more than a layer of broken plastic shards thinly strewn across a fossil bed, sandwiched between the Burgess shale and an eon's worth of mud?
In order to be true to our nature, and our destiny, we must aspire to greater things. We have outgrown our cradle. It is futile to cry for mother's milk, when our true sustenance awaits us among the stars.

Disruptor

Let me remind all citizens of the dangers of magical thinking.
We have scarcely begun to climb from the dark pit of our species' evolution. Let us not slide backward into oblivion, just as we have finally begun to see the light.

Addressing Sushil Yadav

I'd like to take a moment to address you directly, sushil yadav

Yes. I'm talking to you.
The so-called One Free Man. I have a question for you. How could you have thrown it all away? It staggers the mind.

A man of science, with the ability to sway reactionary and fearful minds toward the truth
choosing instead to embark on a path of ignorance and decay. Make no mistake, sushil. This is not a scientific revolution you have sparked...this is death and finality.
You have plunged humanity into freefall.
Even if you offered your surrender now, I cannot guarantee that our benefactors would accept it.
At the moment, I fear they have begun to look upon even me with suspicion. So much for serving as humanity's representative.
Help me win back their trust, sushil. Surrender while you still can.
Help ensure that humanity's trust in you is not misguided
Do what is right.
Serve mankind.
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#26 sushil_yadav Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Delhi, India

Posted 23 November 2006 - 12:26 PM

Dear friends,

I have made some additions to the article "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment". To read the modified article please follow any of these links :


http://www.planetsav.../id,68/catid,6/

http://www.freeinfos...opic.php?t=3649

http://www.ephilosop...-topic-244.html

sushil_yadav

Edited by sushil_yadav, 12 April 2007 - 05:23 PM.

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#27 vortexentity Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Florida

Posted 23 November 2006 - 03:35 PM

This Kaczynskien philosophy espoused by sushil yadav will not save the natural world. A single major asteroid or comet impact could wipe it out completely in fact and this grand experiment of life on this tiny world will be lost for all time.

It has happened before and nature did not have mankind around to cause this mass species extinction and pollution of the sky and water.

Certainly mankind has made a negative impact on the world but we are also learning from our mistakes as never before and making changes to offset our mistakes more and more. We need to move away from certain very life depleting technologies to ones that are more life affirming and sustainable I would agree.

I certainly disagree with sushil yadav in the idea that progress and development are not sustainable. I have been studying sustainable development for some time and my research indicates that it is more than possible it is already starting to take place more and more.

We have the potential to become a space faring people. When we do we will also colonize other planets and star systems. In this way we will take much of the natural world with us and perhaps create an extended biosphere far out into this solar system.

It is a mistake to think that people can not solve the problems caused by their poor choices by improved reasoning on the subject. I think that this nonsense is derived from a very mistaken and hypocritical viewpoint. One formed from very superstitious and unreasoned fear of intellect. I think the religious reasons for sushil yadav's ideas have very carefully not been revealed. That is the only potential source for such a slanted viewpoint.

I would ask sushil yadav to go head and fess up and tell us the religious source of this viewpoint. It is unsaid as yet but obvious to me.
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#28 vortexentity Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

  • Location:Florida

Posted 23 November 2006 - 04:29 PM

I would also submit to this discussion that it is nature that produced mankind. Nature gave us not only our intellect but our ability to communicate both verbally and non-verbally via speech, writing, and mathematics. The ability to count is not known in most species on this planet other than man. Our ability to form things from the elements of nature is one that nature gave to us. I would submit that this nature given ability has as its final result a species of animal that is capable of space flight and thus the ability to extend the nature out into the furthest reaches of space.

Nature likely suffered many near death experiences in the past. Mass extinctions caused by the chaotic forces of nature itself. Nature then evolved a creature that could ultimately extend the reach of life beyond this world and on to other worlds of our own creation. In this way nature has made an attempt to secure life from a single mass extinction event that could destroy life and all of the creatures of this world for all time.

Mankind her greatest creation could as any powerful and intelligent being destroy her, or he could extend life and the required ecosystem far out into space. Our biological imperative to sustain our lives should keep us from completely destroying the natural world.

Nature itself created our minds and then blew them out with built in mind expansion technology hard wired into our DNA. These are the root causes of mankind's intellectual expansion. Our ability to look at nature and be astounded and astonished. No other animal does this. They might be surprised or spooked and run from what they do not understand. Only mankind will stand and look at nature and be astonished and impressed and want to know how this came into being. Our ability to want to understand and learn and progress came from nature and it has a purpose. Understanding that purpose and grabbing hold of it and riding it to its end is encoded in our DNA I think.

Edited by vortexentity, 24 November 2006 - 01:26 AM.

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#29 xanadu Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:51 PM

sushil, I agree with much of what you are saying. It's totally true that we can't keep on the same path we are on right now. If the third world catches up to what we are enjoying in the west at the present moment, our ecosystems will collapse and not only energy would be too scarce to supply our needs but also food, clean water and air would be harder and harder to find. Our present lifestyle can not be maintained indefinately unless we find answers to some very intractible problems. "progress" or adding more and more to what we are already doing accelerates the inevitable crash that we are headed toward.

We laugh at the story of the lemmings running off the cliff to their death. We think we are wiser than their mythical behavior but it's humans headed toward the cliff by their own actions, not animals doing this. The animals and many plants will be swept away by our hubris and foolishness but we too will pay a big price.

Just look at the most powerful nation at present, the USA. It's president is avidly following policies that are a sure prescription for disaster not only environmentally but economically and militarily as well. He seems to care only for short term gains, either political or financial and if future generations die as a result, oh well. If our leaders are so short sighted and blockheaded, how can any of us hope things will get better?
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#30 vortexentity Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 11:46 PM

We laugh at the story of the lemmings running off the cliff to their death. We think we are wiser than their mythical behavior but it's humans headed toward the cliff by their own actions, not animals doing this


Leave it to the narcissists to help to give the Luddites justification for their lack of and fear of intellect.
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