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Where do I start to begin caring for my skin better and prevent aging?

acne scars 20s male skincare diet exercise anti-aging

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#1 shyherdier

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 08:56 AM


I feel like a complete novice towards anti-aging compared to the other posters here. For example it seems like everyone here uses sunscreen daily like it's second nature - I only put on sunscreen once or twice a year! I'm looking for a general overview of different things I can start doing, both immediately and in the future. I'm almost 24 and my skin looks quite bad. I've had mild-moderate acne since I was 14 and also have some scarring on my face. Skin tone is very uneven. I can't imagine myself with clear skin. My only saving grace is that my skin is quite oily, which apparently is a natural anti-ager. At the moment, the only thing I'm doing for anti-aging is that I've quit coffee, milk and sugar, and started drinking lots of white tea.

 

I've made a list of bullet points below on my own ideas to get the ball rolling. If anyone could expand on them with details, or add their own ideas, I would be much obliged. Open minded to either natural or non-natural skincare products.

 

  • get Retin-A/tretinoin (which % strength?)
  • overhaul my diet (currently eat lots of processed grains, little/no fruit or vegetables, and am addicted to curry chicken)
  • exercise (this is more for my mental health)
  • new cleanser (ideas?)
  • new toner/moisturiser (ideas?)
  • new body wash/moisturiser (ideas?)
  • get an eye cream (ideas0
  • use sunscreen daily
  • wear moisture socks/gloves overnight for feet/hand anti-aging
  • get better sleep (I constantly have dark undereyes/bags)
  • get microdermabrasion facials once a week

 



#2 Heyman

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 12:07 PM

The most important topicals are a photostable sunscreen with high UVA protection, antioxidants and retin-a. You could try to improve your diet in order to contain a lot of vegetables and try to get enough calcium / vitamin D / vitamin k2 for bone health. Exercise is generally good, however I'd be careful about running.

 

I use cerave foaming cleanser. I think an eye cream, socks and gloves and microdermabrasion are not important for general anti-aging.


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#3 shyherdier

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 12:42 PM

The most important topicals are a photostable sunscreen with high UVA protection, antioxidants and retin-a. You could try to improve your diet in order to contain a lot of vegetables and try to get enough calcium / vitamin D / vitamin k2 for bone health. Exercise is generally good, however I'd be careful about running.

 

I use cerave foaming cleanser. I think an eye cream, socks and gloves and microdermabrasion are not important for general anti-aging.

 

Could you take a look at this sunscreen and see if it is up to those specifications (photostable, high UVA)? http://www.hamiltons...om.au/products/

CeraVe looks good. How are you finding the cleanser?



#4 Heyman

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 12:50 PM

 

The most important topicals are a photostable sunscreen with high UVA protection, antioxidants and retin-a. You could try to improve your diet in order to contain a lot of vegetables and try to get enough calcium / vitamin D / vitamin k2 for bone health. Exercise is generally good, however I'd be careful about running.

 

I use cerave foaming cleanser. I think an eye cream, socks and gloves and microdermabrasion are not important for general anti-aging.

 

Could you take a look at this sunscreen and see if it is up to those specifications (photostable, high UVA)? http://www.hamiltons...om.au/products/

CeraVe looks good. How are you finding the cleanser?

 

Maybe it isn't and it has very low UVA protection. You could try to order e.g. this one: http://www.ratzillac...essence-4-plus/as they ship worldwide. Otherwise look for a sunscreen without avobenzone (Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane). However, the american rating system as opposed to the european or asian one does not really tell you the amount of UVA protection. Just order the cleanser online.


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#5 mustardseed41

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 04:39 PM

At your age a good Vitamin C serum is a better idea than Retin-A. Although I don't feel your too young to start Retin-A. If you do, just start SLOWLY and read all you can about it. Good idea to start at the lower % range like 0.25%.

 

Good ideas as far as diet and exercise go are eating either a Paleo type diet or Mediterranean diet. Intermittent fasting is a great option. Short, brief high intensity activities like weightlifting (both bodyweight and barbells/machines) and sprinting.

 

You don't need an eye cream. Especially at your age. Just use what you use on your whole face. Emu oil and something like Cerave PM are great ideas.

 

Not sure about Aussi sunscreens but look for a non-nano zinc sunscreen that you can tolerate or ones with either Mexoryl or Tinosorb as the ingredient.

 

Forget the moisture socks/gloves overnight for feet/hand. I see no reason to do this. Especially at your age.

 

Forget the microdermabrasion facials. IMO they are very over-rated and unnecessary especially if you do the other things mentioned. Plus you don't want to overdo things.

 

Speaking of overdo.......It is critical to not bombard your skin all at once. Ease into it. Especially with Retin-A

 

Good options as far as supplements go are whey protein, fish oil, D3, Magnesium, K2


Edited by mustardseed41, 30 May 2015 - 04:41 PM.

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#6 nowayout

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 05:57 PM

Sun avoidance is IMO better than sunscreens if possible - remember that topical creams are commonly used as drug delivery systems for small molecules - consequently I don't trust the possible cumulative effect over years of the various topically delivered small molecules that are in sunscreens, since they are systemically absorbed. 

 

- Wear brimmed hats, but be aware that reflection from clouds, water, snow, the ground, etc., can also cause sun damage.   

- Wear sunglasses to further protect the skin around your eyes. 

- I realized my major mode of sun exposure was while driving.  The sun always finds a way of shining onto my neck and face, even creeping in under my sunglasses in the early or late hours, or all day in winter at higher latitudes.  Keep an old shirt in your car to tuck in between you and the side window, or invest in a window tint or screen.    


Edited by nowayout, 30 May 2015 - 05:58 PM.

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#7 nowayout

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 06:00 PM

Also be aware that the wrinkling and other damage you are going to see in your 40s has probably already been done.  I am seeing damage only now from exposure that occurred in my teens (I can tell, since it follows the hairline I had back then).  Still, it is never too late to start. 


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#8 JBForrester

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 06:11 PM

Consumer Reports did their 2015 evaluation of the best and worst sunscreens:

 

http://www.webmd.com...orts-sunscreens

 

I usually recommend an all zinc oxide sunscreen but not sure what to think anymore - according to consumer reports the best have oxybenzone, which is photosensitive, and the worst, well, have mostly zinc oxide, etc. Thoughts from anyone? What shall we recommend to Shyherdier?


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#9 YOLF

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 02:52 AM

Bulk Hyaluronic Acid (oral or just add water to make it a gel), Chondroitin, Glucosamine, Vit K2, D3, Collagen, Wild Blueberry Extract, Olive Leaf Ext, Pine Bark Ext, enzymes, the list is long. Some of these will help prevent sunburns and act as natural sunscreens to some extent. if you don't get much sun, I'd take the supplements over the sunscreen, some will even reverse some signs of aging and be good for the rest of your body.

 

Oh, and 650-660nm LED lights might be a good idea, I'm experimenting now, supposed to see noticeable results in 30 days of 15 minute sessions. 88% of damage to the eyes from visible spectrums occur below 480nm and more of it can occur up to 500nm, though I'm not sure if that's all of it.


Edited by YOLF, 01 June 2015 - 10:53 AM.

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#10 Heyman

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 03:55 AM

88% of damage from visible spectrums occur below 480nm.

 

Do you have a source for this?



#11 shyherdier

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 04:24 AM

At your age a good Vitamin C serum is a better idea than Retin-A. Although I don't feel your too young to start Retin-A. If you do, just start SLOWLY and read all you can about it. Good idea to start at the lower % range like 0.25%.

 

Good ideas as far as diet and exercise go are eating either a Paleo type diet or Mediterranean diet. Intermittent fasting is a great option. Short, brief high intensity activities like weightlifting (both bodyweight and barbells/machines) and sprinting.

 

You don't need an eye cream. Especially at your age. Just use what you use on your whole face. Emu oil and something like Cerave PM are great ideas.

 

Not sure about Aussi sunscreens but look for a non-nano zinc sunscreen that you can tolerate or ones with either Mexoryl or Tinosorb as the ingredient.

 

Forget the moisture socks/gloves overnight for feet/hand. I see no reason to do this. Especially at your age.

 

Forget the microdermabrasion facials. IMO they are very over-rated and unnecessary especially if you do the other things mentioned. Plus you don't want to overdo things.

 

Speaking of overdo.......It is critical to not bombard your skin all at once. Ease into it. Especially with Retin-A

 

Good options as far as supplements go are whey protein, fish oil, D3, Magnesium, K2

 

Thanks for the tips! Would Retin-A be more effective for getting rid of the acne and scars than a Vitamin C serum? I'll start with the 0.025% anyway. When I get the Retin-A, do I spread it sparingly all over my face and neck?

 

I thought Emu oil and zinc sunscreens were comedogenic/they block pores. I'll probably just go with a CeraVe set of cleanser and moisturiser. So, foaming cleanser + PM moisturiser + Retin-A + sunscreen. I would rather not try the topical hyaluronic acid that YOLF suggested, I'll stick to simple things for now just to get into the hang of having a skincare routine at first. I might look into specific topicals later on. And I'll forego the sun-fighting supplements (it will get too expensive) as well and get foundational ones instead like fish oil and Vitamin D.

 

 



#12 mustardseed41

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 04:41 AM

Yes Retin-A is better for acne. It may help some with scars also. Dermarolling is a good option for scars.

 

http://www.skinacea....ml#.VWqPZ1KJgdU

 

Emu oil does not block pores. Many people use oils instead of expensive over hyped lotions. Some people even cleanse their skin with oils (OCM).

Blocking pores is not typically an issue with zinc sunscreens. Finding one you find cosmetically pleasing is.


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#13 twinkly

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 09:56 PM

mustardseed41 -- hope you're doing well, been keeping up with all your posts the last couple of months as I haven't been logged on as often I had liked.

 

As you recommended I while ago, I've been using Emu oil as a moisturizer and have been quite pleased with it, I have to say. Though I'm not sure if you've come across some of the posts, across a number of boards about skincare, purporting that it "supposedly" increases melanin. It should be noted that none of these posts go out of their way to cite any scientific report validating it either, and I, myself, haven't found anything of the like either. Seems like anything you get around to liking these days will eventually have negatives written about it somewhere in the deep reaches of the internet : /.



#14 mustardseed41

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 11:07 PM

mustardseed41 -- hope you're doing well, been keeping up with all your posts the last couple of months as I haven't been logged on as often I had liked.

 

As you recommended I while ago, I've been using Emu oil as a moisturizer and have been quite pleased with it, I have to say. Though I'm not sure if you've come across some of the posts, across a number of boards about skincare, purporting that it "supposedly" increases melanin. It should be noted that none of these posts go out of their way to cite any scientific report validating it either, and I, myself, haven't found anything of the like either. Seems like anything you get around to liking these days will eventually have negatives written about it somewhere in the deep reaches of the internet : /.

 

First I've ever heard about Emu oil increasing melanin. Been using it for quite a while now and skin is the same color. :wacko:



#15 Dolph

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 08:39 AM

Retin-A, chemical peeling, sunscreen, done... 


Sorry for double post.


Edited by Dolph, 01 June 2015 - 08:40 AM.


#16 YOLF

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 10:23 AM

 

88% of damage from visible spectrums occur below 480nm.

 

Do you have a source for this?

 

 

Sorry, I didn't keep a link to the source I was quoting. But here's something interesting I found while looking for it. 

http://www.reviewofo...essonid/109744/

http://en.wikipedia....y_visible_light

 

The blue light information was limited to damage to the eyes and my mention of it was more out of caution for those buying collagen boosting lights as it's a good idea to get/use the eyewear. I must have replied too swiftly I've corrected the post. Though blue light is being used to treat skin conditions including scars IIRC and red stimulates collagen production, so there may be risks depending on how this process works. I have more reading to do. If the blue light being used on scars and acne works b/c the scar/acne tissue is disproportionately damaged, then that might also infer that some damage is being done there. I haven't had enough time to read up on it yet.

 


Edited by YOLF, 01 June 2015 - 10:51 AM.

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#17 Brett Black

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 04:13 AM

Shyherdier, there are very very few real peer-reviewed, scientifically proven/validated treatments available for slowing, stopping or reversing the aesthetic changes associated with aging. The cosmetics industry is absolutely overflowing with unsubstantiated claims, misleading marketing, hype and just generally very low quality evidence of efficacy. The online(and probablly offline) beauty and cosmetic type communities are full of heresay, anectdote, myths, scientitic ignorance etc too.
 
Not only could many of these cosmetic products be a complete and utter waste of your money, time and effort, but there is also always the chance that long-term chronic application may have unknown, unexpected and undesirable effects (this is what can happen when you have a novel concotion of 10, 20, 30+ chemicals, each even individually of unknown long-term impact all interacting on your skin.)
 
Tretinoin (aka "Retin-A") is definitely the most proven topical. Tazarotene, which is in the same class of chemicals as tretinoin, the so-called "retinoids", also has some peer-reviewed evidence for efficacy, and some suggesting it may be superior to tretinoin, though the volume of evidence is less.
 
Avoiding sun damage also has good evidence. Personally, I am very cautious in using sunscreens as, again, these are novel concotions of multiple chemicals with limited to no available peer-reviewed long-term trials of safety, and like cosmetics it is not uncommon to see marketing, instead of evidence of efficacy and safety, drive some aspects of formulation. Furthermore, there is some evidence that solar rays lower than than the U.V. range, like infrared, may play a part in sun-induced age-associated skin damage and I am not aware of any sunscreens that block these (a hat/clothing/shade can.)

I'd suggest you check out the following website, it is probably the single best compilation of science and evidence-based information(I wish it cited more references though) I have found dealing with aging-associated cosmetic treatments:
http://www.smartskin...tments/topical/
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#18 Brett Black

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 04:38 AM

As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm wary of sunscreens, but for me they may be a necessity at times, and in my search for the least unacceptable I found that Priceline in Australia sells the La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL sunscreen range (you can search it on their website.) This range has won a lot of praise and is one of the very few readily available in Australia which has both the usual SPF rating as well as a UVA PPD rating (PPD measures protection from UVA too, something deficient in solely an SPF rating.) It is also one of a limited number of sunscreens describing itself as "photostable"(ie it doesn't degrade substantially when exposed to UV, a potential problem with some sunscreens) which could be important. Whether or not they would be acceptable to you in terms of appearance, feel, ease of application etc, I can't say, but I personally found the spray version and extreme fluid version both tended to leave gritty white particles that transferred to clothing unfortunately. I found them tolerable on the body but not the face, so I'm on the hunt for a better sunscreen...maybe some of the others from this range could be ok...?

Edited by Brett Black, 02 June 2015 - 04:53 AM.


#19 Heyman

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 05:46 AM

 Personally, I am very cautious in using sunscreens as, again, these are novel concotions of multiple chemicals with limited to no available peer-reviewed long-term trials of safety, and like cosmetics it is not uncommon to see marketing, instead of evidence of efficacy and safety, drive some aspects of formulation. Furthermore, there is some evidence that solar rays lower than than the U.V. range, like infrared, may play a part in sun-induced age-associated skin damage and I am not aware of any sunscreens that block these (a hat/clothing/shade can.)

 

There are certainly studies on safety on lots of sunscreen ingredients. Tinosorb S as an example seems to be not absorbed in the skin and even if it would be, there are several studies which have found no estrogenic or other effects. Zinc Oxide also seems harmless enough. Is there a reason to suspect that these would cause long-term health concerns? The sole reason that there are no studies done on these ingredients ranging over e.g. 20 years should not prevent you from using them in my opinion. You are trading the slight possibility of adverse effects - which there is no real reason to believe exists - for the much more substantiated protective effects of sunscreen.

 

Even if IR could be a concern regarding aging, blocking UVA and UVB still should offer an advantage as these are aging on their own and use different mechanisms. I'd rather be exposed to only IR than to IR + UVA + UVB, or do you think both conditions are damaging at an equal rate? Both papers I post now suggest otherwise. There is still a discussion wheather IR on its own is aging at all - e.g. http://www.nature.co...ymp200915a.html but apart from that there are also known ways to possibly prevent IR-associated changes: http://www.nature.co...ymp200914a.html.


Edited by Heyman, 02 June 2015 - 05:47 AM.

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#20 niner

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 02:24 AM

UV and to a much lesser extent the more energetic end of the visible are capable of causing electronic excitations in molecules that result in bonds being made and broken.  That's the way photodamage occurs.  The only thing that the IR does is make molecules wiggle, and when the IR exposure stops, those molecules go back to their normal thermal motions.  What's the evidence that IR of the frequency and intensity that humans would normally encounter is going to hurt skin, and what would be the mechanism for that damage?  I understand that IR of certain frequencies and intensities can have biological effects, but those all seem to be beneficial.  What am I missing?



#21 Brett Black

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 02:53 PM

UV and to a much lesser extent the more energetic end of the visible are capable of causing electronic excitations in molecules that result in bonds being made and broken.  That's the way photodamage occurs.  The only thing that the IR does is make molecules wiggle, and when the IR exposure stops, those molecules go back to their normal thermal motions.  What's the evidence that IR of the frequency and intensity that humans would normally encounter is going to hurt skin, and what would be the mechanism for that damage?  I understand that IR of certain frequencies and intensities can have biological effects, but those all seem to be beneficial.  What am I missing?


1. Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2015;28(4):196-204. doi: 10.1159/000369829. Epub 2015 Feb
10.

Low to moderate doses of infrared A irradiation impair extracellular matrix
homeostasis of the skin and contribute to skin photodamage.

Robert C(1), Bonnet M, Marques S, Numa M, Doucet O.

Author information:
(1)Coty International Research and Development Center, Monaco, Monaco.

Human skin is daily exposed to sun rays, which include not only ultraviolet
radiation, but also an important quantity of infrared (IR) radiation. In the past
few years, many publications have underlined the negative impact of IR radiation
on the human skin, particularly when the skin and/or the cells are exposed to
high sun irradiance and significant doses of IR. In the present study, we
demonstrate, in vitro on normal human fibroblasts, that even under low irradiance
with single or very few repeated doses, infrared A irradiation (IRA) produces
free radicals, triggers major changes in the expression of the type I collagen
and elastin network, impairs the dermal-epidermal junction, upregulates several
matrix metalloproteinases and has an impact on the expression of key genes of the
extracellular matrix. We conclude that chronic or discretionary exposure to IRA
could play a role that is more important than expected in premature skin aging.

© 2015 S. Karger AG, Basel.

PMID: 25676694 [PubMed - in process]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25676694



1. Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2014 Apr-Jun;30(2-3):167-74. doi:
10.1111/phpp.12111. Epub 2014 Feb 19.

Photoprotection of human skin beyond ultraviolet radiation.

Grether-Beck S(1), Marini A, Jaenicke T, Krutmann J.

Author information:
(1)IUF - Leibniz Research Institute for Environmental Medicine, Düsseldorf,
Germany.

Photoprotection of human skin by means of sunscreens or daily skin-care products
is traditionally centered around the prevention of acute (e.g. sunburn) and
chronic (e.g. skin cancer and photoaging) skin damage that may result from
exposure to ultraviolet rays (UVB and UVA). Within the last decade, however, it
has been appreciated that wavelengths beyond the ultraviolet spectrum, in
particular visible light and infrared radiation, contribute to skin damage in
general and photoaging of human skin in particular. As a consequence, attempts
have been made to develop skin care/sunscreen products that not only protect
against UVB or UVA radiation but provide photoprotection against visible light
and infrared radiation as well. In this article, we will briefly review the
current knowledge about the mechanisms responsible for visible light/infrared
radiation-induced skin damage and then, based on this information, discuss
strategies that have been successfully used or may be employed in the future to
achieve photoprotection of human skin beyond ultraviolet radiation. In this
regard we will particularly focus on the use of topical antioxidants and the
challenges that result from the task of showing their efficacy.

© 2014 John Wiley & Sons A/S. Published by John Wiley & Sons Ltd.

PMID: 24433486 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24433486


1. J Investig Dermatol Symp Proc. 2009 Aug;14(1):67-72. doi:
10.1038/jidsymp.2009.15.

The pathogenesis of photoaging: the role of neutrophils and neutrophil-derived
enzymes.

Rijken F(1), Bruijnzeel PL.

Author information:
(1)Department of Dermatology, University Medical Center Utrecht, Heidelberglaan,
Utrecht, The Netherlands. F.rijken@umcutrecht.nl

The hallmark of photoaged skin is solar elastosis, which is probably an end
product of elastic fiber degradation. Exposure of human skin to a certain
threshold of UV, infrared radiation (IR), and heat leads to an influx of
neutrophils. These neutrophils are packed with potent proteolytic enzymes capable
of degrading collagen and, particularly, elastic fibers. Neutrophil-derived
proteolytic enzymes are held responsible for the extracellular matrix (ECM)
damage observed in several non-dermatological conditions. Furthermore, neutrophil
elastase, a major product of neutrophils, is strongly associated with solar
elastosis in mice. Taken together with our data that show in vivo proteolytic
activity of neutrophil-derived elastase and matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) in
UV-exposed skin, we have hypothesized earlier that neutrophils are major
contributors to the photoaging process. Although several groups have shown that
MMPs are also induced in skin exposed to relatively low doses of UV, IR, and
heat, clinical data indicate that high(er) doses of UV, IR, and heat are
necessary to induce photoaging or photoaging-like pathology in the skin.
Therefore, we propose that MMPs generated by suberythemogenic doses of UV and low
doses of IR/heat are involved in cellular processes other than ECM
degradation.Journal of Investigative Dermatology Symposium Proceedings (2009) 14,
67-72; doi:10.1038/jidsymp.2009.15.

PMID: 19675558 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19675558


1. Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Nov;126(11):1170-7.

Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless
mice.

Kim HH(1), Lee MJ, Lee SR, Kim KH, Cho KH, Eun HC, Chung JH.

Author information:
(1)Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine,
Laboratory of Cutaneous Aging Research, Clinical Research Institute, Seoul
National University Hospital, 28, Yongon-dong, Chongno-Gu, Seoul 110-744,
Republic of Korea.

Skin aging can be divided into intrinsic aging and photoaging. Sunlight is a
major cause of photoaging, and is composed of ultraviolet (UV) and infrared (IR)
radiation. Although the effects of UV radiation on skin aging have been widely
studied, little is known about the biological effects of IR on the photoaging
process in human skin. We found that chronic IR treatment induced wrinkles in
hairless mice, and augments UV-induced wrinkle formation and UV-induced skin
thickening in hairless mice. Histologically, we found that IR treatment augments
UV-induced epidermal and dermal thickening, and that UV-induced increases of
collagen and elastic fibers in dermis. Moreover, chronic IR treatment increased
MMP-3 and MMP-13 mRNA expressions significantly in hairless mouse skin and
augmented UV-induced MMP-3 and MMP-13 mRNA expressions and UV-induced MMP-2 and
MMP-9 activities. From these results, we demonstrate that IR alone induces skin
wrinkling and augments UV-induced wrinkle formation. Taken together, we suggest
that IR plays an important role in the development of photoaging.

PMID: 16118013 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16118013


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#22 niner

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 06:19 PM

Thanks for that great information Brett.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the biological processes induced by IR are not all good.   So, dang.  Does this mean that we're damaging our skin if we use a sauna?  Lie in front of a fireplace?   We need to know the relative magnitudes of the effects from various frequency bands, but the usual epidemiological data can only tell you about the effects of different levels of sunlight, and can't deconvolute the effects of the different bands.   Sun avoidance looks better all the time...



#23 Heyman

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 11:52 PM

Brett Black actually posted some conflicting papers which is very interesting. Two of the papers seem to make the point that IR at lower doses is not that bad. The paper "The pathogenesis of photoaging: the role of neutrophils and neutrophil-derived enzymes" makes the case that IR is unlikely to contribute to photoaging as long as you do not get excessive doses.

 

 

Therefore, we propose that MMPs generated by suberythemogenic doses of UV and low doses of IR/heat are involved in cellular processes other than ECM degradation.

 

and

 

MMPs have been shown to be induced by suberythemogenic doses of UV, IR, and solar heat. However, clinical data do not support a major contribution of low doses of UV (for example, sun-exposed black skin and ventral forearm skin, which are regularly exposed to suberythemogenic doses of UV but show little or no solar elastosis), IR, and solar heat to the photoaging process. In fact, clinical data indicate that high(er) doses of UV are necessary to induce photoaging.

 

Full text here: http://www.nature.co...ymp200915a.html

 

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

 

I would not be too sure that low doses of IR actually contribute in a major way to photoaging.


Edited by Heyman, 07 June 2015 - 11:55 PM.


#24 nowayout

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 04:37 PM

The human body itself emits IR, so every cell in your body is bathed in IR radiation. 



#25 nowayout

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 04:42 PM

Tretinoin (aka "Retin-A") is definitely the most proven topical.

 

My personal impression from using tretinoin for a year  or two in the past is that it is actually somewhat damaging.  I think it thinned and further dried out my already too thin and dry skin, but YMMV.    I have yet to see anybody get any substantial improvement from it - before-after pictures from studies are totally underwhelming to my eye. 



#26 Aurel

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 07:02 PM

- Is there a general consensus about Retinol (not Retin-A), Vitamin C Serum, topical hyaluronic acid on this forum? Would they work?

- Why is Vit K mentioned for skin care?

- Heyman: is there a german sunscreen that you could recommend or do you just use the asian one?



#27 HapG

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 02:44 AM

What about collagen supplements? Does anyone know if taking them internally really works for the skin?

#28 Heyman

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 11:36 AM

- Heyman: is there a german sunscreen that you could recommend or do you just use the asian one?

 

If you can get Daylong ultra gelfluid SPF 30 it's pretty good. However, the Biore UV Aqua Rich ... is still more cosmetically pleasing so I'll usually wear that instead. There are sunscreens which are cosmetically even better from any random supermarket in Germany, but they oftentimes contain avobenzone so I'm a bit sceptical about these. Any sunscreen is better than none thugh.


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#29 ImmortalSpace

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 06:49 PM

***Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor. This is only shared from my experience and for educational use only! Please talk to your doctor before you consider putting any supplements into your body.***

 

Okay heres more ideas:

-

Always wear sunscreen (duh! you knew that, but sun avoidance is best or get an umbrella- Reapply every 2 hours)

Avoid foods that convert to sugar too quickly.. Sugar causes Glycation. L-Carnosine stops glycation.. get L-Carnosine supplements (Very important)

Get boxes of White tea (It prevents Elastace and Collaganase which breaks down skin White tea also repairs sun damage)

Excercise at *Least* 180 minutes or 3 hours a week to stimulate telomarase.. also excercsise has tons of other benefits

Get Astaxanthin (It's 800 times more powerful than Vitamin C- it's takes a month to build up and become useful as a sunscreen)

Get this supplement which contains an more vitamin C than anything i've ever heard of (http://markusrothkra.../vitamin-c.html)

Moisturize and cleanse face daily- use Glycolic Acid on some days (promotes collagen)

Derma rolling helps, but get a Vitamin C and Hylauranic acid Serum to apply afterwards

Inflammation causes aging so get Omega 3 capsules either from flaxseed or fish oil to balance Omega 6 fats

Green smoothies! (Spinach, Berries, anthocyans etc) Try to get lots of green smoothies every day. (Make vegtables and fruits a daily routine!)

Try to limit stress.. if you have a condition like Generalized Anxiety Disorder (Anxiety that never leaves) - try medication and therapy to fix that (exercise also helps a lot) 

 

More Tips:

Wear beanies when outside or use UVA\UVB hair protection (scalp is vulnerable to UV damage also and that can affect follicles- but again Astaxanthin protects against this a lot)

Avoid grains and dairy (which can cause some amount of inflammation)

If you're vegan\vegetarian get a Soy based protein powder or a complete protein set  

If you're an omnviore make sure you limit your intake of meat (because high in saturated fats or try consuming healthier meats such as chicken and tuna.. but beef in lower portions)

Get a sunscreen stick (best for using under your eyes and lips)

Drink at least 2 liters of water a day!

Get Vitamin D supplements since you're avoiding the sun! Vitamin D is important in Anti-Aging.

Always moisturize skin before bed (unless you're using glycolic acid that day.. it's effective without moisturizer.. but makes skin sensetive to the sun.)

 

There's a 50% chance that aging will be cured within 20-25 years according to Aubre De Grey Phd. He's really well known and gives talks at Oxford.. Google and  TEDx

I encourage you to watch that if you're interested.

http://www.ted.com/t...ing?language=en

 

 

 

 

 


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#30 niner

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 02:52 AM

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

 

That's a pretty huge dose of IR compared to sunlight.  Average mid-day sunlight is about 0.1 W/cm2, but that's mostly in the visible.  I'm not sure exactly how much is in the IR, but it's significantly less that 0.1 W/cm2.  Thus the experiment used more than 20X sunlight, and probably closer to 100X or more.  I think that we probably don't need to worry much about IR.


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