198 replies to this topic

[eon]

Major, I would think it's also possible to be alpha and a beta much like it's possible for men to be androgenic by birth (male but having "pretty" features as in eyes, etc.). I read an article that women tend to be attracted to androgenic men while men aren't as attracted to women with some slight male features (tomboy-ish mannerism, short hair, etc.).

[Valor5]

Trait a woman likes = Hard-working man, energetic man. Do you have a job? Do you work? Are you caretaking and conscientious? Want to not fall in love then be lazy, slothful, careless women will absolutely HATE YOU. PROBLEM SOLVED.

[Major Legend]

Look at it another way: As Dr. Tyrell in Blade Runner said "the facts of life..."

 

A woman almost ALWAYS has options when it comes to sex, that means no matter how great you are there is no way you can guarantee that a woman will never cheat on you, unless you can go back in a time machine, but even then it was well documented - they did cheat. So unless your plan is to become Tony Stark tomorrow 24 hours 7 days a week, this thinking will never work. Just accept it, women are like men, sometimes they get tempted into making split second decisions like eating a hamburger. Being the most attractice woman in a mans life has never really ensured he will stay loyal EITHER, sometimes men will even cheat on an attractive woman for a less attractive one, sometimes women cheat with guys who are less attractive and simply because they are there at the right place right time and said the right things.

 

The facts of life.

 

So if you eliminate whats stupid (the idea of being the most attractive guy in the world), then you get left with the obvious. You have been born with a set of genes, that no amount of current technology can edit and rewrite, your body and mind live by this set of code, it will have its pros, it will have its cons. You would be stupid to focus on your cons right? So just focus on your pros, be on your own path, in the long run you will shine.

 

It is in your genes to fall in love, it is in your genes to be hungry, you can counter those things - its called apathy, lethargy and brain damage. To deny love, is to deny the code in every cell of your body.

 

Again the facts of life, we may be sophisticated computers but we are bound to the code of which billions of years have forged us

 

Is there point in this guy focusing on the fact he has no legs and arms (who is married to a beautiful chick by the way):

 

Do you think this guy focuses on the fact that every girl probably thinks he has a small dick:

 

And do you think Bill Gates goes to bed thinking how "beta" he is for being a computer nerd?:

 

 

I rest my case. Sorry or derailing the thread, on the chemical front I think love bonding acts a whole bunch of systems, oxytocin triggers a kind of psychological conditioning, the best way to contry against condition is probably to improve frontal lobe function. Something like fasoracetam + DRI like wellbutrin might be interesting here. As for lowering Oxytocin---- no idea??

 

Edited by Major Legend, 24 June 2015 - 12:55 PM.

[Duchykins]

Duchykins, what you explained and described here may work for frogs, but not for humans in a Facebook era/generation but it's an interesting read. How you described how females select their mate also may come across as she wants someone financially set, etc. while usually the guy likes his women to be whores, no money needed, just a nice fleshy whore.

It's hard to know if one is content with one another. There is a saying that "satisfaction is the death of desire" and I tend to feel and think that people have desires much more than what they think they are content with. The thread though is never about cheating and so on but more on how to not fall in love. LOL.

Actually everything said pertains to humans specifically, and perhaps if you paid more attention to what I said instead of being intent on giving some huffy kneejerk response, you would have noticed that. Especially since we're on the internet where fack-checking in th scientific literature is ten seconds away. Nor did I say it was the sum total of anything, in fact I specifically spoke to the infleunces of basic sexual selection rather than culture which has its own set of influences. Stop being so irrational. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging our evolutionary history, in fact this helps us understand each other better.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 June 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[Duchykins]

Look at it another way: As Dr. Tyrell in Blade Runner said "the facts of life..."

A woman almost ALWAYS has options when it comes to sex, that means no matter how great you are there is no way you can guarantee that a woman will never cheat on you, unless you can go back in a time machine, but even then it was well documented - they did cheat. So unless your plan is to become Tony Stark tomorrow 24 hours 7 days a week, this thinking will never work. Just accept it, women are like men, sometimes they get tempted into making split second decisions like eating a hamburger. Being the most attractice woman in a mans life has never really ensured he will stay loyal EITHER, sometimes men will even cheat on an attractive woman for a less attractive one, sometimes women cheat with guys who are less attractive and simply because they are there at the right place right time and said the right things.

The facts of life.

So if you eliminate whats stupid (the idea of being the most attractive guy in the world), then you get left with the obvious. You have been born with a set of genes, that no amount of current technology can edit and rewrite, your body and mind live by this set of code, it will have its pros, it will have its cons. You would be stupid to focus on your cons right? So just focus on your pros, be on your own path, in the long run you will shine.

It is in your genes to fall in love, it is in your genes to be hungry, you can counter those things - its called apathy, lethargy and brain damage. To deny love, is to deny the code in every cell of your body.

Again the facts of life, we may be sophisticated computers but we are bound to the code of which billions of years have forged us

Is there point in this guy focusing on the fact he has no legs and arms (who is married to a beautiful chick by the way):


Do you think this guy focuses on the fact that every girl probably thinks he has a small dick:


And do you think Bill Gates goes to bed thinking how "beta" he is for being a computer nerd?:



I rest my case. Sorry or derailing the thread, on the chemical front I think love bonding acts a whole bunch of systems, oxytocin triggers a kind of psychological conditioning, the best way to contry against condition is probably to improve frontal lobe function. Something like fasoracetam + DRI like wellbutrin might be interesting here. As for lowering Oxytocin---- no idea??

This was such an excellent post. Thank you.

In case there was a misunderstanding, I never spoke to selecting some universal set of perfect genes, but only on selecting mates genetically compatible to the individual. So no one really has these universally perfect genes because what is best is relative to the genes of the individual of the limiting sex. This is very important because of things like histocompatibility. If we did not have some way of identifying mates this way then it would be disastrous for offsrping.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 June 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Major Legend]

 

 

In case there was a misunderstanding, I never spoke to selecting some universal set of perfect genes, but only on selecting mates genetically compatible to the individual. So no one really has these universally perfect genes because what is best is relative to the genes of the individual of the limiting sex. This is very important because of things like histocompatibility. If we did not have some way of identifying mates this way then it would be disastrous for offsrping.

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing misunderstood.    I am autistic too so I get what you were talking about. What I am trying to point out is that there is the facts/the logic of our evolutionary psychology which is awesome and beautiful in itself -  but one must be careful when trying to use that logic into generalising millions of seperate beings with different experiences (culture included), and thiking that by using that logic we can deduce how to control the outcome.

[Duchykins]

There is enough variety in humans to correctly believe that no two situations are exactly identical. Yes gender is biased against certain traits, but they are not absolutes.

 

For example I am straight but I would be considered to have more female like abilities than a guy, my object tracking abilities are poor, my coordination is bad, but my colour perception, creative ability and empathy (building connections with others) is pretty great. I am also much more in touch with my emotions than most men. This does not make me gay or wrong, every guy or girl has some mix of both female and male attributes.

 

I actually find it slightly off putting the emphasis society puts on being male and being female, most males are athletically better than females, but there are also females who can kick your ass. Male and female are labels with restricting connotations. Humans are far more complex than most other animals, if they were not relationships with the opposite sex would be simple, its the mixture of both our evolutionary rat brain and our higher processes that makes humans very hard to predict (not a good thing from a control freak point of view).

 

What I mean is that there have been men who try to put females into labels, and females put males into certain labels such as alpha beta etc, but really everyone is different, they just have base similarities. For example yes woman is going to see social value much more than men due to evolutionary psychology, much like men are going to be attracted to big boobs and good skin, but does it mean that all men and women are not loyal, and can't understand things in a beyond animal context - absolutely not. 

 

To put this into perspective an alpha male (jocks), often are not as financially successful as (betas), finance is much much harder to build in modern society than building social skills. In the long run jocks end up as club promotes, whilsts betas end up as something that generates alot of economic value. Whilst you can argue that an Alpha is more attractive from a evolutionary basis (if alpha and beta even really exist as black and white as it sounds), they cannot use their alpha attributes to generate financial success, financial success that allows manipulation of the real world to make flirting more fun, such as venues, travel etc. Not to mention economic leverage will allow many more perks than just attracting females, such as eating good food, traveling, helping others or building your own dream company. See how the real world has only about half relation with the animal world?

 

For example a man can divorce a woman for a younger more beautiful wife, yet still remains in his heart very much in love with his first wife, because in his mind he understood everything they have been through together, this dualistic understanding of things is what makes our brains much more powerful than an animal or a computer for now anyways. Labels are for simple people and people who would prefer a shortcut for analysing things - this will not lead to any happiness in understanding human relationships!

 

A lot of that alpha male beta male stuff is bullshit in social mammals, including humans.  Partly because that perception of things tends to come from men thinking they know what's most attractive in each other (they don't, and nor do women know what's generally more attractive to men, partly because this requires a seriously accurate perception of what its like to be the other se            x and that is very difficult to do).  Alpha male, etc a lot of that was coined by past generations of biologists (overwhelmingly male) and most of it has been shown to be inaccurate with modern discoveries.  That kind of thing comes more into play with intrasexual selection rather than intersexual selection.  Too much of the past's understanding of sexual selection has been colored by the interpretations of sexist male scientists (not really their fault since they're carrying the baggage of their generation), that's why we keep finding new "surprising" facts about ourselves with nearly every new study on ourselves (they're surprising only because they contradict so much of what was previously believed about sexual selection).

 

That being said however, there is still a certain attractiveness in one's social status (which for humans would include financial wealth and/or stability).  Those with higher social status tend to be healthier etc and have better genes.  We're not necessarily stuck with 100% of our genetic configuration at birth due to epigenetic change than can occur over the lifespan, influenced by things like lifestyle and environment.

 

So what am I saying really?  That old saying that "there is someone out there for everyone" (which is something that is associated with silly unrealistic romantic dreams) is a little more accurate than we used to believe.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 June 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[Duchykins]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing misunderstood.    I am autistic too so I get what you were talking about. What I am trying to point out is that there is the facts/the logic of our evolutionary psychology which is awesome and beautiful in itself -  but one must be careful when trying to use that logic into generalising millions of seperate beings with different experiences (culture included), and thiking that by using that logic we can deduce how to control the outcome.

 

 

 

No I get what you're saying completely and it was never my intent to present that as the sum total of how humans are choosing their sexual partners.  That's not even something that is remotely feasible to do in a few paragraphs or even a few scientific papers, honestly.  We really are an extremely fascinating complex species and I was just pointing out one puzzle piece that is nearly always overlooked.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 June 2015 - 01:37 PM.

[eon]

I would assume Hitler's meth dosage were psychotic grade, not medicinal considering prescription meth (Desoxyn) only comes in 5 mg dosages and can be taken up to 25 mg daily. Most recreational meth users though uses more than that at least 4x or more that amount (100 mg or so).

 

 

Adolf Hitler's medical care.

For the last nine years of his life Adolf Hitler, a lifelong hypochondriac had as his physician Dr Theodor Morell. Hitler's mood swings, Parkinson's disease, gastro-intestinal symptoms, skin problems and steady decline until his suicide in 1945 are documented by reliable observers and historians, and in Morell's diaries. The bizarre and unorthodox medications given to Hitler, often for undisclosed reasons, include topical cocaine, injected amphetamines, glucose, testosterone, estradiol, and corticosteroids. In addition, he was given a preparation made from a gun cleaner, a compound of strychnine and atropine, an extract of seminal vesicles, and numerous vitamins and 'tonics'. It seems possible that some of Hitler's behaviour, illnesses and suffering can be attributed to his medical care. Whether he blindly accepted such unorthodox medications or demanded them is unclear

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15825245

 

[Anthropositor]

Pardon me Eon.  I'm new here.  I have a different take on your post. The variety of answers by others which followed seem to me to have missed the point.  Clearly you are anguished.  Chemistry is not your answer.   Coming to grips with emotionally induced turmoil is.  But there is no shortcut to doing it.  Taking the handy shortcuts certainly can, and may well kill you.  I have seen it happen.  You do not need to adjust some imagined defect in your brain chemical topography.  Attempting to do so is much more likely to make things worse than better.  Your present condition gives you a low LQ (longevity quotient).  This is not irreversible.

 

Instead of cultivating uncomplicated lustful liaisons, go in the direction you currently do not wish to go.  Develop empathy.  Stop playing your courting games.  Get in touch with the real other person that you have the prospect of a relationship with.  Develop the capacity to care about and for that person.  Can it sometimes be painful?  Agonizingly.  But not always.  Take the risk.  Keep taking the risk until it works.

 

Meanwhile, don't experiment with your brain.  Use it to think with.  Use it to feel with.  Love is not always a disaster.  Not loving is always wrong.  Expect to make some mistakes.  Painful though they will be, you will get over it if you keep things in perspective.  Oh yeah, cultivate a sense of humor too.    I know you can do it.  Good luck.

[Mr Serendipity]

I only read the first couple of posts, before it felt like there were no real solutions.

 

Well what helped me with women was hypnosis. Find a hypnosis, or create one yourself, that focuses on confidence with women and not being hung up on one girl. Hypnosis can do magic for creating a different outlook on life and situations. It requires practice going into trance, but just stick to it by listening before bed every night (as you're going to sleep anyway). And eventually your personality can shift in a huge way, where something that has been a big deal for you for a long time, doesn't seems like a problem at all anymore.

[eon]

I really like this point of view. Maybe it's my OCD which tends to make me over think and was formerly a "perfectionist" til I lessened my OCD. I'm a risk taker but not usually when emotions are involved (this is where you go wrong when emotions are involved instead of logic) because it becomes out of my control when another person is involved, especially a woman. I prefer to be in control. But such thing as love, people do have a change of heart and the whole chaos that comes with it when it becomes over is ridiculous.

 

The narcissism is actually on her side.

 

I'd prefer to experiment with my brain, rather than let a narcissist play head games with me. Oh, and love always ends in disaster, just watch every love story movie there is (start with Titanic). How's that for my sense of humor?

 

 

Pardon me Eon.  I'm new here.  I have a different take on your post. The variety of answers by others which followed seem to me to have missed the point.  Clearly you are anguished.  Chemistry is not your answer.   Coming to grips with emotionally induced turmoil is.  But there is no shortcut to doing it.  Taking the handy shortcuts certainly can, and may well kill you.  I have seen it happen.  You do not need to adjust some imagined defect in your brain chemical topography.  Attempting to do so is much more likely to make things worse than better.  Your present condition gives you a low LQ (longevity quotient).  This is not irreversible.

 

Instead of cultivating uncomplicated lustful liaisons, go in the direction you currently do not wish to go.  Develop empathy.  Stop playing your courting games.  Get in touch with the real other person that you have the prospect of a relationship with.  Develop the capacity to care about and for that person.  Can it sometimes be painful?  Agonizingly.  But not always.  Take the risk.  Keep taking the risk until it works.

 

Meanwhile, don't experiment with your brain.  Use it to think with.  Use it to feel with.  Love is not always a disaster.  Not loving is always wrong.  Expect to make some mistakes.  Painful though they will be, you will get over it if you keep things in perspective.  Oh yeah, cultivate a sense of humor too.    I know you can do it.  Good luck.

 

Edited by eon, 28 June 2015 - 09:19 AM.

[eon]

There used to be such thing as "hysteric woman" til people thought it was sexist. Women got burned because of their hysteria and was thought to be a "witch". Something goes on with their libido or lack thereof that makes some of them hysteric and explosive and seeking out attention and once they get it, they turn against you as if you'd been "had", psychologically. Once they receive attention from the guy, the girl acts as if you don't exist anymore therefore the guy comes across as if HE is the one NOW chasing her! I don't have sources but I've read something about "libidonal" and "narcissim" etc.

 

I haven't looked too deep into hypnosis. Could I do it my self, to my self without outside doctors? To me hypnosis is like palm reading. I'm not sure if it's legitimate or not.

 

I'm confident, not hung up on one girl, but her whole vibe seem as if she wants me to be hung up on HER and only HER! 

 

I only read the first couple of posts, before it felt like there were no real solutions.

 

Well what helped me with women was hypnosis. Find a hypnosis, or create one yourself, that focuses on confidence with women and not being hung up on one girl. Hypnosis can do magic for creating a different outlook on life and situations. It requires practice going into trance, but just stick to it by listening before bed every night (as you're going to sleep anyway). And eventually your personality can shift in a huge way, where something that has been a big deal for you for a long time, doesn't seems like a problem at all anymore.

 

[Anthropositor]

Hi Manny.  Let's examine this a bit.  In hypnosis there are several obvious components.  The "subject" whose behavior is to be (hopefully) positively changed needs to place himself under the control of another individual, the "hypnotist."  Whoever this other individual is, for the procedure to actually work for Eon, he must convince himself that this person he is allowing to control him is is actually trustworthy, is actually skilled in the persuasive art of suggestion, and is actually motivated to bring about beneficial change and growth for the subject, Eon.  He must do this uncritically even before he has any notion of what the hypnotist intends as the resulting consequence of the session(s).  There needs to be trust.  Faith.  Confidence unfounded by anything tangible or concrete.  The subject is already adrift and in obvious pain.  He wants the pain to be erased by uncomplicated lust.  He has already hypnotized  himself that this is the answer.  Hot stuff.  Orgasm without caring.  At the moment he is the charlatan preparing to do it to himself, over and over.

 

Hypnosis is powered imagination.  Imagine this.  He sees a girl across a crowded seaside bistro who is so absolutely stunning he is transfixed with desire.  She doesn't see him.  He yearns for her to just turn her head.  Make eye contact.  She doesn't even seem to be with anyone!  Could it be?  Only her lime green silken dress clings to her.  Her blond hair is suddenly illumined in a gentle breeze as the setting sun transfigures her face in a way he has never before seen.  He glides closer without a thought.  He is next to her.  His heart pounds.  She turns.  Their eyes meet.  Her aroma is beyond words.  He blurts out "I know I would remember if I had ever met you because I will remember this moment forever."

 

Oh no.  That can't be it.  Because Eon just wants to s****.  To hook up.  Oh well.

[eon]

I apologize for being a sexual person. It's just biological...

[Duchykins]

 

There used to be such thing as "hysteric woman" til people thought it was sexist. Women got burned because of their hysteria and was thought to be a "witch". Something goes on with their libido or lack thereof that makes some of them hysteric and explosive and seeking out attention and once they get it, they turn against you as if you'd been "had", psychologically. Once they receive attention from the guy, the girl acts as if you don't exist anymore therefore the guy comes across as if HE is the one NOW chasing her! I don't have sources but I've read something about "libidonal" and "narcissim" etc.

 

I haven't looked too deep into hypnosis. Could I do it my self, to my self without outside doctors? To me hypnosis is like palm reading. I'm not sure if it's legitimate or not.

 

I'm confident, not hung up on one girl, but her whole vibe seem as if she wants me to be hung up on HER and only HER! 

 

 

 

Wow, there is so much crazy in this post I'm too overwhelmed to pick somewhere to start.

 

Your obsession with this woman has turned from "there is something wrong with me, I'm too distracted" to "there is something wrong with her, this is all her fault, she is manipulating me."  

 

This is sick stuff.  

 

This is the kind of stuff that leads an over-fixated fan of some celebrity to start thinking the celebrity is reciprocating their feelings.

 

This is the line of reasoning that leads pedophiles from instinctively knowing there is something wrong with the way they view children, knowing a child should not be sexually touched by an adult, into eventually convincing themselves that the children are seducing them, that they are hapless victims of a child's wiles, and that it's okay to touch children.

 

You're overthinking this so much you're gradually going off the deep end into misogyny.  You've turned her into a predator and you the prey.  She hasn't done anything of the sort or you would have already told us about things she said or did that demonstrate she is even interested in you that much in the first place.  

 

All of this drama has been very one-sided; it's all on your side.

 

I really think everyone should walk away from this thread so as not to continue feeding you in such a way that entices you to spend more time over-analyzing your situation.  

 

And you need to tell your pdoc about what you think about this woman, about how you are rationalizing your feelings towards her, about how often you are doing it and how frequently you are jumping from one conclusion/solution to another, and what you think you could do to solve your problem.  People seeing pdocs usually hold back this kind of stuff like this because they fear what the pdoc will think of them.  But this is exactly the kind of knowledge pdocs need from their patients in order to even begin to identify the root problems, let alone figure out what the proper course of treatment should be.

[Mr Serendipity]

Honestly I have no idea what discussion I've fallen into, I feel really awkward reading it. I was just recommending hypnosis to improve the ops general confidence and confidence with women.

 

From what I've read is it feels like the op is too much in his head due to his OCD tendacies. Hypnosis might be able to help you with that as well.

 

Also I'm not recommending he go see a hypnotist to do these things. Rather buying a decent hypnosis CD/MP3 should help, just read the reviews of them first.

 

As for women and society in general. Well I personally think everything is going to shit in this world today. Too many people sleeping round, not enough emphasis on monogomy anymore, and too much emphasis on beauty for a women. I think people were happier before the sexual revolution, as nearly everyone had a partner, and they were more likely to be committed to each other until the end because of the stigma of how shameful and wrong it was to be with anyone else (before and after marriage). I'm talking about both men and women. But we're shifted away just to sex rather than relationships these days. The youth are pressured to lose their virginity and to sleep around. There's a selfish mentality out there. And theres like 40% of men sleeping with 80% of the women out there. The other 60% of men are angry and bitter because they can't get a girl, and after a girl has slept around and those 40% who don't want her anymore as she grows older, they settle with the men who could never pull them. The last thing I would ever want to do is be the guy a girl settles for after having slept with 20+ men in her lifetime, though she wouldn't have given a damn about me before, it makes me feel sick.

 

Anyway that's my opinion, so don't take it as fact. And I'm not really blaming women either, men are just as bad, and this is what a lot of men wanted (girls to be less prude, sexually uninhibited), but now 42% of relationships end in divorce (in England and Wales), which to me isn't right. I definitely think relationships were better back when there was more selflessness and sacrifice for each other, rather than the it's all about me generation we have today. BTW I'm 27.

Edited by manny, 29 June 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[Anthropositor]

I apologize for being a sexual person. It's just biological...

Clearly Eon, you are intent on misunderstanding/ignoring what I am saying.  I was sexually active before I was a teenager.  I am now almost 3/4 century old.  While I have added some maturity to the equation and the eruptions are less explosive, the volcano is still regularly active, confining the lava to the singular island of my affection.  So says Anthropositor.

[Flex]

 

There used to be such thing as "hysteric woman" til people thought it was sexist. Women got burned because of their hysteria and was thought to be a "witch". Something goes on with their libido or lack thereof that makes some of them hysteric and explosive and seeking out attention and once they get it, they turn against you as if you'd been "had", psychologically. Once they receive attention from the guy, the girl acts as if you don't exist anymore therefore the guy comes across as if HE is the one NOW chasing her! I don't have sources but I've read something about "libidonal" and "narcissim" etc.

 

I haven't looked too deep into hypnosis. Could I do it my self, to my self without outside doctors? To me hypnosis is like palm reading. I'm not sure if it's legitimate or not.

 

I'm confident, not hung up on one girl, but her whole vibe seem as if she wants me to be hung up on HER and only HER! 

 

Damn this remebers me on my own but my reason was because of my fairness(no kidding^^), principes and frankly it had something beautiful to want just the one (no kidding^^).

Though cant say whether there was anything subconcusion that led me to do this.

 

Regarding the chasing: its a usual narcissist trait to down other to lift them selves up above You/other.

just observe them, they even backbiting/talking bad about most(?) of their friends.

Dont know why they bring someone in exactly this position i.e. to appear that youre chasing her but they want it.

So its a weak point; dont give exactly this to them ^^

I can only assume the reasons, in my case I believe was it the lack of the ability to manipulate due to a lack of analysis and pretention of my self.

 

Means, she couldnt predict whether I will still try to ask her out (lol), if she shows interrest ( in order to keep me chasing her)

on the other hand, she showed interrest again, when I lost the will.

So this was a compromise, because of a "unability" of her.

Btw: I´ve noticed that womens are worser in "profiling" others than males which is good because the game their´re playing (at least those mentioned ones) is quite mercyless !
 

I have to second Duchykins post.

I dont know whether my post were useful but, honestly everyone tells You to dumb that girl like finally and maybe forever but You keep talking about it.

Its like someone has a problem, You solve it but then this guy keeps on and You noticing that he was the whole time about the talking or whatever.

One could feel disregarded by this because the effort of writing is worth to You like air..

 

Dont misunderstand me, I feel compassion because I went through similair things and would like to prevent them at least for others.

 

@ manny

I know what You mean...

Its.. dont know, sometimes I tend to fall in biases about women but on the other hand I dont want to explain it that easy for me.

Maybe i just have to little experiences so I´m running cycles about the womens..

It could be that they tend to be more affected to "social trends" like selfishness or whatever dunno.

 

I think the media could have an infulence into this intendendly or unintendendly ( another point about assumptions and biases, you know conspiracy..)

if You think about Boy-Groups and masculine movie characters or alone how they are presented like the guy from 50 shades of grey.

Theres a nice thread where someone mentioned that when Your girlfriend starts to compare You with a movie character, You should see in this a redflag because You will never fullfil their desires.

Admittley this is intellectually quite low if a woman does this but I believe that the subconscious is amenable for something like this.

 

heres the thread

Older Redditors, what are some "early warning signs" of trouble that younger folks may not know about? [serious]

https://de.reddit.co..._warning_signs/

Edited by Flex, 30 June 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Duchykins]

Honestly I have no idea what discussion I've fallen into, I feel really awkward reading it. I was just recommending hypnosis to improve the ops general confidence and confidence with women.

 

From what I've read is it feels like the op is too much in his head due to his OCD tendacies. Hypnosis might be able to help you with that as well.

 

Also I'm not recommending he go see a hypnotist to do these things. Rather buying a decent hypnosis CD/MP3 should help, just read the reviews of them first.

 

As for women and society in general. Well I personally think everything is going to shit in this world today. Too many people sleeping round, not enough emphasis on monogomy anymore, and too much emphasis on beauty for a women. I think people were happier before the sexual revolution, as nearly everyone had a partner, and they were more likely to be committed to each other until the end because of the stigma of how shameful and wrong it was to be with anyone else (before and after marriage). I'm talking about both men and women. But we're shifted away just to sex rather than relationships these days. The youth are pressured to lose their virginity and to sleep around. There's a selfish mentality out there. And theres like 40% of men sleeping with 80% of the women out there. The other 60% of men are angry and bitter because they can't get a girl, and after a girl has slept around and those 40% who don't want her anymore as she grows older, they settle with the men who could never pull them. The last thing I would ever want to do is be the guy a girl settles for after having slept with 20+ men in her lifetime, though she wouldn't have given a damn about me before, it makes me feel sick.

 

Anyway that's my opinion, so don't take it as fact. And I'm not really blaming women either, men are just as bad, and this is what a lot of men wanted (girls to be less prude, sexually uninhibited), but now 42% of relationships end in divorce (in England and Wales), which to me isn't right. I definitely think relationships were better back when there was more selflessness and sacrifice for each other, rather than the it's all about me generation we have today. BTW I'm 27.

 

I'm sorry but you do not know what you are talking about.  Married couples were happier "back in the day" because ... why?  They stayed married longer?  The main difference is the increase in the freedom of women to find someone who makes them happy.  Women weren't as free to express displeasure in their relationships, had less reproductive freedom.  Only recently, within this generation (mine), did laws criminalizing spousal rape become more widespread.  30 some years ago in a lot of places, it was not a crime to rape your wife.  It wasn't considered rape under the law.  England and Wales' law specifically exempting martial rape from prosecution was not overturned until 1991.   Nineteen-ninety-fucking-one.  The last US state to make spousal rape a crime did so in 1993.  Shut the fuck up about women being happier in marriage in past generations.  They had no substantial voice and few options before the 80s.

 

There is more divorce now because we no longer generally try to force a couple to stay together for religious reasons (number one reason: Christianity has less power in Western countries and is slowly becoming less destructively conservative), divorced women are no longer shunned by her local community (very common in the last generation).  Domestic violence?  Women used to be told figure out what she's doing wrong and stop making her husband so angry.  Now we tell women to leave him immediately.  Fall out of love with a man and cease being attracted to him?  Oh shit, that wasn't even discussed back then because nobody considered women's sexuality.  She was still expected to not refuse her husband's sexual advances.  You probably have no idea how degrading it is to be heavily pressured or outright forced into sex with someone who does not arouse you.  Now we say try different kinds of things to "rekindle the magic" or just leave the relationship and find a new love.  Husband cheats?  Women were told to either expect it or figure out what they did wrong to make him "wander."  Now we say just ditch his ass.  Husband a drunk, a gambler, a drug addict?  Women still couldn't really leave without serious repercussions.  Now we say get him to counseling or get rid of him.  And on and on we go.

 

 

 

You know all these stereotypes and male complaints about women wanting less and less sex from their men the longer they stay together?   As usual, there is a nugget of truth in stereotypes.  She lost interest in him way before he lost interest in her.  Could be for any number of reasons, but one of the big ones is if they both have jobs, he is probably not pitching in enough around the house or with the kids so she is likelier to be exhausted at the end of the day.  And she is likelier to be holding this against him.  A lot more women are graduating college and holding full time jobs now (it is no longer the case that most middle class families can live on only one source of income, so that means women have to work too), but are still expected to do most of the housework and/or childcare when not at work.  Additionally, pestering a woman for sex when she is tired or otherwise disinterested in sex, or getting angry at her, or trying to guilt her into consenting... all that shit only stresses a woman out which makes her less likely to want sex, actually makes a woman less attracted/interested to her man in general (if he does it frequently enough), and turns sex into a chore she needs to complete in order to get some peace.  

 

All of these things are true but we still don't really teach this to men so that they know to try different things when they want to keep a woman interested in sex with him, and we still don't really tell women that it's okay to express specific causes of displeasure with men (rather than just making a display of irritation and not really saying why, with him not understanding what he did wrong which is also frustrating for him).  This would both relieve some of the chronic stress on women from suppressing themselves (less stress = more receptive to sex) and empower men with knowledge they can use to their advantage.

 

You know the stereotype and frequent joke about women who want to "talk" and "cuddle" after sex while men just want to sleep?  Another nugget of truth there: those women haven't been sexually satisfied, they are still aroused and a bit sexually frustrated (nor is it the healthiest thing for general wellbeing), and if this becomes a pattern in a relationship, the woman will begin to lose interest the man and perhaps even become resentful towards him.  Women, having full-body orgasms that average at least double as many seconds longer than men, and averaging less than 4 minutes to orgasm after the prerequisite 20 min or so window to hit full arousal, and being hit with all the same fun biochemicals at orgasm, collapse into sleep or a quiet rest period just as often as men do after an orgasm.  But they actually have to have one, of course.  Since we are still very much cultures that focuses more on male satisfaction than female, with women still not encouraged to be comfortable expressing sexual needs especially if this means being critical with a man's technique, most women are still under the impression it's best to fake orgasms to 1) get the boring and/or awful sex over with   2) increase men's pleasure  3) not wounding men's egos.  Additionally, men who are duped by the fake orgasm know nothing about what happens in the vagina, the whole uterus, the hips, the legs, and the anus when a woman has an orgasm.  If there is a penis inside her and this penis doesn't feel waves of contractions (should feel pretty awesome by the way) when the woman supposedly having an orgasm, nor does she get "wetter", chances are she's faking and he's easily fooled because he's never actually brought a woman to orgasm during intercourse before.  The real thing is kind of hard to miss and is almost impossible to fake.  It would be like a man trying to fake an ejaculation.   So too many men never really learn how to please a woman and too many women are quietly trying to ignore or suppress their sexual dissatisfaction.  

 

It is a scientific fact that women become bored much faster than men in monogamy.  

 

The studies point to biology as the cause of this difference between men and women, which I don't disagree with since that makes perfect sense from the perspective of natural selection, but I think there are additional bits of cultural baggage from past generations about gender roles and the sexuality of either of the sexes.  Women now have more freedom to leave men and are doing so.  Men have yet to catch up with this fact and learn to do (or not do) things that keep women content and interested in him.  I'm not saying men aren't learning this but it's a slow process.  You say 60% of men are unhappy because they get less attention from women?   I say there are a plethora of excellent reasons for that, the least being that that is a totally natural pattern in sexually reproducing species.  This is one of the very real biological inequalities between men and women.  In any group with a normal ratio of females to males, females are the limiting sex, period.  The only known way to significantly interfere with this biological pattern is with culture: the suppression of women.     

 

The fact that you heavily implied that so many men being lonely is women's fault (somehow because there is more promiscuity among women? That makes no sense, it would follow that more men would get getting more sex from different women, not the other way around with a 60% majority being almost completely left out of this sex free-for-all as you make it seem.  Dude, where is your logic?)  means you're still looking at it the wrong way, the way that isn't very good at attracting or sustaining a woman's interest.  I suspect the last generation, as well as ours, has to die out completely before Western societies lose this baggage and see a significant decrease in divorce rates because couples really will be happier for longer.  I believe a different way of influencing that natural pattern without harming women can be developed, that more men could learn to attract and keep the women they want, but that it will be a while before the right cultural changes become widespread and fixed in the population.

 

 

 

Am I saying everything is awesome now and there is nothing that got worse since the 1990s?  No.  Everything has its pros and cons.  But even though we all still have more learning to do about ourselves in order to better understand each other and make choices that lead to more contentment, what we have now is lightyears better than the past.  A step backward really is a step backward.

Edited by Duchykins, 30 June 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

You sound absolutely charming, I'm sure any man would love to be your husband. The best in luck in finding him.

Edited by manny, 30 June 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[OneScrewLoose]

Manny, unsubscribe from /r/theredpill, please. It only teaches you powerlessness.

The thing that will help you the most is to not be afraid of rejection. This seems to be the issue her. A girl rejects you, and you start sulking instead of moving on. The best thing you can do for yourself is to show girls that you're not desperate and that you could take it or leave it. Confidence is like boobs for men.

If you feel like OCD might be an issue with this, take a look at this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8780431

BTW, I know a 350lbs guys who still gets laid. My roommate is definitely less attractive than me, but he seems to get more action than I do. Not that I don't, it's just that I don't project a high level of confidence. But it's been a work in progress, and I'm getting there.

Promiscuity is great. It lets you get laid more. If you're not getting laid, you need to work on your confidence. Once you're confident, promiscuity helps you get some, even if you're no the best looking or the richest guy.

Please, stay the fuck away from theredpill. It's a rabbit hole of powerlessness and self-loathing.

[eon]

What's theredpill?

[OneScrewLoose]

Reddit.com/r/theredpill.

No, it's not a joke or a parody.

[Major Legend]

I just don't understand the obsession with sex, if you love your parents you would value your parents more than the prospect of sex right? So there are more important things.

 

I think once you've slept with a dozen different women, at least for me I realise sex is pretty similiar, yeah you feel a sense of accomplishment for a short time and there is the excitement of taking her , but if it develops into a relationship than that comes with all its complications too. of a relationship - unless you are a total psychopath and don't feel any emotion.

 

Also if marriage is such a bad thing, then why is almost every successful person married. I think its because successful people don't spend time thinking about how to be attractive or be in control of the opposite sex.

 

I think our current generation needs to reevaluate some of our core beliefs about the importance of sex and getting instant gratification, our obsession with consumption and not production is exactly the reason why our economy is built only in financial leverage but not in real things like new technologies.

 

To me there are much more higher pursuits than the opposite sex, what about directors doing an amazing movie, a software developer designing a game or an app, a doctor saving lives and so on and so forth. Excessive focus on sex as I grow older just seems to be a really childish things when there are so many things out there that bring s much deeper and vivid type of satisfaction rather than putting your dick in vagina.

[Mr Serendipity]

OneScrewLoose, you must have one screw loose. I have never heard of the red pill let alone been subscribed to it.

 

We'll have to disagree on promiscuity being great. I think monogamy creates a healthier and happier society. I think the 42% divorce rate shows society on the decline, especially in relationships.

 

There's too much emphasis on sex today, and not enough on connection. Too much emphasis on a woman's looks, and not enough emphasis on her inner qualities. This whole society has become completely vain.

[Duchykins]

You sound absolutely charming, I'm sure any man would love to be your husband. The best in luck in finding him.

Talking to me?

Been married since 2005 to a man who crushed on me in high school. We have a 5 year old girl and lots of good times.

Derp.

I'm sorry you seem to think I have a low opinion of men or whatever because evolutionary biology is my general go-to perspective in all things involving living organisms. It may be because that's my career focus, or because I'm just nerdy-retarded that way I suppose. I'm as flawed as any other person.

Men can be quite wonderful and magnificent. I admire many. I'm not sure if you qualify though, especially if you're part of that 60% group (but I don't believe things are as extreme as you've painted them to be). But that's only because we vaguely know each other through these incredibly one-dimensional discussion boards. I only know what you post here so I will let that go.

Lastly, OneScrewLoose is absolutely correct about confidence. A display of confidence can gloss over some personal flaws, and this goes for both sexes. Confidence is one of those generally sexy traits. Attraction is not just about looks and smells, but behaviors too. Confidence is also one of those things that you can "fake it till you make it," meaning that after a while of practicing mannerisms they will begin to come to you more naturally until you do them automatically. Additionally, calmness. Outwardly confident people often radiate calm anyway, but it doesn't hurt to pay a bit fo special attention to self-control, self-containment, and speed of movement and speed of speech.

These kinds of things automatically project an image of you that is a little more sophisticated and therefore intelligent (not necessarily limited to book smarts) which is a hugely attractive trait. Actually, women have a tendency to select genes for for intellect over traits like physical strength and fitness, especially near ovulation. A few different university studies have found that women also tend to select for intelligence over social status, wealth and other things like that around ovulation time, then switch things up during the rest of her cycle. Isn't that weird and cool? Now you know a *little* bit more about what you can do to attract a woman. I'm sure you're aware that things are more complicated than that but this can help you just the same.

Knowledge is only powerful if you use it. I wish you luck and hope your situation changes for the better so that you can be happier.

Edited by Duchykins, 01 July 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[Duchykins]

OneScrewLoose, you must have one screw loose. I have never heard of the red pill let alone been subscribed to it.

We'll have to disagree on promiscuity being great. I think monogamy creates a healthier and happier society. I think the 42% divorce rate shows society on the decline, especially in relationships.

There's too much emphasis on sex today, and not enough on connection. Too much emphasis on a woman's looks, and not enough emphasis on her inner qualities. This whole society has become completely vain.

I don't think anyone here is saying marriage is bad or that high divorce rate is good. I think you like to jump to conclusions though. Steady, stable relationships are usually best for the sake of any children in the household, although the whole one person being the primary caretaker of a child goes against the grain of our biology and quickly wears the adult down because our children are so helpless and dependent for years and years. Meaning significant marital trouble, and possible psychiatric trouble, if the primary caretaker does not get frequent and long-enough breaks to tend to their own wellbeing. Communal raising of children fits our biology best and more of our cultures used to do things more that way, but that's died out in a lot of places and replaced with the lone primary caretaker paradigm. Again, pros and cons of any system.

It's true though, there is a lot of emphasis on sex. There always has been, but it's not as hidden behind closed doors these days.

However, you yourself said that you would be disgusted to learn that a woman you're with had been with 20 men before you. You act like that is an instant deal breaker. That just sounds like more of the same old superficial judging of women. It sounds like it's pretty easy of you to see a lowlife slut rather than a multifaceted person.

I'm just saying it doesn't seem you are really thinking about what you're saying because a lot of it seems irrational. Perhaps it's coming from a place of pain or anger? A lot of things you say just give me the impression you don't like women as people at this particular junction in your life. I don't know, I don't presume to know that much about you really. So I apologize if that's wrong, but again, all we know about each other is what we post here.

[Mr Serendipity]

I love the fact that people have assumed I have trouble with women or lack confidence, because I don't think highly of societal relationships today.

 

Even though my first post was this:

 

 

Well what helped me with women was hypnosis. Find a hypnosis, or create one yourself, that focuses on confidence with women and not being hung up on one girl. Hypnosis can do magic for creating a different outlook on life and situations. It requires practice going into trance, but just stick to it by listening before bed every night (as you're going to sleep anyway). And eventually your personality can shift in a huge way, where something that has been a big deal for you for a long time, doesn't seems like a problem at all anymore.

 

 

Yet some how I've been portrayed as a bitter envious man who never gets laid or get girls, even though I've actually been in a committed relationship with my girlfriend for the last 6 years.

 

But even if I wasn't any good at getting women, or I didn't have a long term girlfiend, or I was still a virgin. My opinions on the decline of relationships in today's society would still be the same. I don't think it's right men and women sleeping around like no other, and divorce being at an all time high (42%).

 

Call me a stuck in the mud, call me conservative, call me traditional, but from what I see around me, men and women aren't happier, they're sadder, more frustrated, more vain, and more selfish. Neither are their children happier when they have to grow up with their mother and father being seperated or not around.

 

But then again I don't really give your opinions much credence when you talk to people the way you do. I expressed my opinion in the most neutral way possible, and one the first things you say is:

 

 

Shut the fuck up about women being happier in marriage in past generations.

 

Not very professional is it, telling someone to "shut the fuck up".

 

Or.

 

 

Derp.

 

If you are going to be so rude in your posts, then don't be so surprised when you get a sarcastic reply back. If you dish it, you better be ready to take it, because not everyone bends over backwards because you're a woman.

 

 

I'm sorry you seem to think I have a low opinion of men or whatever because evolutionary biology is my general go-to perspective in all things involving living organisms. It may be because that's my career focus, or because I'm just nerdy-retarded that way I suppose. I'm as flawed as any other person.

 

Well you guessed right here, even though I never mentioned what I thought about you personally, I agree with you, I do think you have a low opinion of men. But not because evolutionary biology is your go-to perspective, I think that's just an excuse. I actually think you're somewhat of a misandrist. Plus you're generally an angry and rude person who lashes out if anyone has an opinion contrary to yours.

 

In the future, if you want to have a professional debate on your points with people, you should probably speak to other people in a more professional matter.

Edited by manny, 01 July 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[sthira]

Precious few animal species are monogamous, and I doubt humans are, either. Our closest relative -- pan bonobo -- certainly isn't. We form pair bonds, copulate, have offspring, hopefully raise that child in a village (ha -- we wish :-( ... and then after the child is more or less raised, the pair bond breaks. Settled societies, the nuclear family is mostly a recent, artificial, and "unnatural" situation we were pretty much helplessly born into, expected to uphold, shamed upon if we fail. Yet nearly everyone fails. Especially today.

Maybe my great grandparents stuck it out and stayed together. But that's probably because -- as Duchykins maintains -- women had few rights to do anything otherwise. Today? Haha... Does anyone anywhere know of one happy, longterm human relationship? That's such an unrealistic dream, I think. An unfair fantasy. The truth is -- unless you're both very, very special and uniquely suited in ways far beyond the blunt simplistic act of sex -- most human relationships are doomed to end. Usually sadly, in heartbreak, in tears, usually everyone loses. Then we bounce back again, so do it (eg, attempt "to love") all over again.

Someone close just sent me a text right this moment as I was typing this. It's from Louise Erdrich:

"Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that, and living alone won't either, for solitude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. It is the reason you are here on earth. You are here to risk your heart. You are here to be swallowed up. And when it happens that you are broken, or betrayed, or left, or hurt, or death brushes near, let yourself sit by an apple tree and listen to the apples falling all around you in heaps, wasting their sweetness. Tell yourself you tasted as many as you could."

Louise Erdrich, The Painted Drum LP