4 replies to this topic

[Sarif]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm fairly new to nootropics. I've suffered from depression, social anxiety and emotional instability as long as I can remember. I've tried many things including behavioral therapy with no result. recently I found out about nootripics and decided to give it a try. I posted a question regarding depression in this forum previously and as suggested by my friend OneScrewLoose I am have been taking .1 mg clonidine+100 mg 5-HTP+400 mg EGCG at night and 5 mg of selegiline in the morning for the last few days. Now I've noticed a subtle change in mood for better but I'm still far from living a normal life.

 

I'll list down my main problems here in the order they are affecting my life, hope somebody will show me some light:

 

1. After I've started taking clonidine+5-HTP, I feel extremely sleepy the whole day(though I used to feel sleepy even before that, now the problem is worse). My head is heavy and I'm very tired from the morning. Need something that'll make me sleep but still will wake-up refreshed in the morning.

2. I've problem with extremely racing mind and restless leg syndrome. I can hardly concentrate on anything. I've a very important exam in 2 months so I desperately need something that'll help me focus.

3.Lack of energy - always living inside my head.

3.I've intense social anxiety - but this is something I've learned to leave with and not an immediate threat. Though I would like to get it cured eventually.

4.My depression is somewhat in control now

 

I know that I'm suffering from too many problems and it's too much to ask for complete cure of everything right now. But if anyone can help me get rid of at least one of these problem, I'll consider myself lucky.

 

Note:

1. I sleep a little better while taking magnessium  

2. selegiline is the only thing that has positive effect on me  

3. I've tried  modafinil with horrible effect. Won't take it ever again.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice,

Sarif

 

[jroseland]

Oh where to start...

 

Vitamin B12, is one of the most effective Nootropics, it's deficiency is highly correlated to depression and lack of energy

 

Piracetam, makes can make a big difference with a lot of issues you describe, but you want to checkout the Piracetam Protocol before consuming it.

 

Aniracetam helps with social anxiety, Phenibut works wonders on social anxiety but it's highly addictive and so you should maybe stay away from it.

[Flex]

In which way did Selegiline affected You positively ?

 

Note: I´m not a doctor so even when something might be convincing i.e. a conclusion from a study to Your medical condition , its not automatically a fact.

To be on the safer side, speak to Your Doctor and show him the studies, so that the can advise and/or warn You.

(though not everyone is mindfull..)

Otherwise Your risking to make things worse !

 

I would try 5-htp alone and look hows affecting You.

You could draw some conclusions but rather "wild" ones because there are several other cell signals and proteins beneath the usual neurotransmitters

(e.g. look for the role of activin in cocaine addiciton) it could also be freely a certain brain area & etc.

 

For sleep and beeing refreshed afterwards is gabaergic stuff, in my view, not good. 

Antihistamines "could" work but You need 1-3 weeks to get used to it, otherwise You´re drowsy + most of them are anticholinergi, which might be contraproductive for the exam.

 

I would try Lavender tea for the Sleep (which was actually sufficient for me) or any extract of it like here in germany Lasea/silexan

http://everything-la...an-capsule.html

 

Lack of energy: depending on the (unknown) cause, it remains, at least in my view, mostly to tackle symptomatically.

You ever heard of cAMP, Clitep & etc. ? Darpp-32 is the downstream target of it and able to affect it positively and negatively depending on its phosphorylation state

i.e. to induce and inhibit locomotion in mice/rats which is afaik a sign of dopamine activity at least in the motor areals like the striatum ( see references at the bottom)

 

According to this post

http://www.longecity...on/#entry732450

 

this abstract

Involvement of metabotropic glutamate receptors in Gi- and Gs-dependent modulation of adenylate cyclase activity induced by a novel cognition enhancer NS-105 in rat brain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9134967

 

and IIRC some reviews on reddit/nootropics

 

"could" fasoracetam help for motivation BUT.. what if Youre getting any rare side effects from it like this guy from Noopept?

http://www.longecity...nt/#entry732507

 

IIRC its in the study stated that the same mechanism can be achieved with mGlur activation by acetylcisteine or perhaps glutamergic stuff like St. johns wort

or maybe glutamine peptide matrix like Infinite Labs Glutamine MTX.

Something like acetylcisteine has actually a dulling effect, at least to me

 

Just saying: I´m an amateur who´s suggesting You something but You have to carry the consequences !

 

Obviously if You still decide to try it, dont buy from any source but a reliable vendor to avoid any impurities !

e.g. 30 pounds sounds much but its actually 50 doses which lasts for nearly 2 months so dont think its too overpriced from the reliable ones

-----------------------------

 

This is actually from my cannabinoid recherche but it gives still some insights into cAMP, PKA and Darpp-32:

 

Cannabinoid Action Depends on Phosphorylation of Dopamine- and cAMP-Regulated Phosphoprotein of 32 kDa at the Protein Kinase A Site in Striatal Projection Neurons

http://www.jneurosci...25/37/8432.long

 

Theres also a direct and an indirect PKA pathway which might play a role:

http://www.academia....uced_dyskinesia

 

As well as a region-depend regulation of Darpp-32

http://journals.plos...al.pcbi.0020176

 

Chronic Δ9-Tetrahydrocannabinol Exposure Induces a Sensitization of Dopamine D2/3 Receptors in the Mesoaccumbens and Nigrostriatal Systems

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3442351/

If I´m not mistaken: when pre- and post-synaptic D2 receptors are upregulated, then the release of Dopamine is dampened because of the fast activation of the presynapic ones.

 

 

More infos:

How to reverse Cognitive, Emotional and Motivational deficits caused by Cannabis/THC abuse

http://www.longecity...nabisthc-abuse/

Edited by Flex, 30 June 2015 - 12:48 AM.

[VICREP]

If you have serious depression, anxiety, ADHD issues it would be best to see a doctor. Nootropics are often a letdown in their magnitude of effect.

[Sarif]

In which way did Selegiline affected You positively ?

 

Note: I´m not a doctor so even when something might be convincing i.e. a conclusion from a study to Your medical condition , its not automatically a fact.

To be on the safer side, speak to Your Doctor and show him the studies, so that the can advise and/or warn You.

(though not everyone is mindfull..)

Otherwise Your risking to make things worse !

 

I would try 5-htp alone and look hows affecting You.

You could draw some conclusions but rather "wild" ones because there are several other cell signals and proteins beneath the usual neurotransmitters

(e.g. look for the role of activin in cocaine addiciton) it could also be freely a certain brain area & etc.

 

For sleep and beeing refreshed afterwards is gabaergic stuff, in my view, not good. 

Antihistamines "could" work but You need 1-3 weeks to get used to it, otherwise You´re drowsy + most of them are anticholinergi, which might be contraproductive for the exam.

 

I would try Lavender tea for the Sleep (which was actually sufficient for me) or any extract of it like here in germany Lasea/silexan

http://everything-la...an-capsule.html

 

Lack of energy: depending on the (unknown) cause, it remains, at least in my view, mostly to tackle symptomatically.

You ever heard of cAMP, Clitep & etc. ? Darpp-32 is the downstream target of it and able to affect it positively and negatively depending on its phosphorylation state

i.e. to induce and inhibit locomotion in mice/rats which is afaik a sign of dopamine activity at least in the motor areals like the striatum ( see references at the bottom)

 

According to this post

http://www.longecity...on/#entry732450

 

this abstract

Involvement of metabotropic glutamate receptors in Gi- and Gs-dependent modulation of adenylate cyclase activity induced by a novel cognition enhancer NS-105 in rat brain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9134967

 

and IIRC some reviews on reddit/nootropics

 

"could" fasoracetam help for motivation BUT.. what if Youre getting any rare side effects from it like this guy from Noopept?

http://www.longecity...nt/#entry732507

 

IIRC its in the study stated that the same mechanism can be achieved with mGlur activation by acetylcisteine or perhaps glutamergic stuff like St. johns wort

or maybe glutamine peptide matrix like Infinite Labs Glutamine MTX.

Something like acetylcisteine has actually a dulling effect, at least to me

 

Just saying: I´m an amateur who´s suggesting You something but You have to carry the consequences !

 

Obviously if You still decide to try it, dont buy from any source but a reliable vendor to avoid any impurities !

e.g. 30 pounds sounds much but its actually 50 doses which lasts for nearly 2 months so dont think its too overpriced from the reliable ones

-----------------------------

 

This is actually from my cannabinoid recherche but it gives still some insights into cAMP, PKA and Darpp-32:

 

Cannabinoid Action Depends on Phosphorylation of Dopamine- and cAMP-Regulated Phosphoprotein of 32 kDa at the Protein Kinase A Site in Striatal Projection Neurons

http://www.jneurosci...25/37/8432.long

 

Theres also a direct and an indirect PKA pathway which might play a role:

http://www.academia....uced_dyskinesia

 

As well as a region-depend regulation of Darpp-32

http://journals.plos...al.pcbi.0020176

 

Chronic Δ9-Tetrahydrocannabinol Exposure Induces a Sensitization of Dopamine D2/3 Receptors in the Mesoaccumbens and Nigrostriatal Systems

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3442351/

If I´m not mistaken: when pre- and post-synaptic D2 receptors are upregulated, then the release of Dopamine is dampened because of the fast activation of the presynapic ones.

 

 

More infos:

How to reverse Cognitive, Emotional and Motivational deficits caused by Cannabis/THC abuse

http://www.longecity...nabisthc-abuse/

 

Thanks a lot for the reply. In addition to the stack I have mentioned in my post, I've ordered Inositol powder(for racing thoughts), Magnesium Chelate(for sleep) and L-Dopa(Morning Grogginess).

 

So for the next 1 month my stack will look like this:

 

Selegiline

Inositol

Fish-oil

5-HTP

L-Dopa

Magnesium

EGCG

 

If it doesn't work then I'm trying to try racetam later.

 

I have an ongoing thread on the below link, maybe you can check it out?

 

http://www.longecity...ic-stack/page-1