7 replies to this topic

[Mayardur]

Hi everyone,

 

For about two weeks I've been taking the following in the morning:

 

Pramiracetam 250mg, Oxiracetam 750mg, Aniracetam 650mg, Caffeine 100mg, Theanine 200mg, Alpha-GPC 300mg, Ashwagandha 665mg, Vinpocetine 10mg, fish oil 2tsp.

 

All has been well, although I don't have any overwhelming positive results from the above.

 

This week I had an overnight cross-country trip which I supplemented with Modafinil to stay awake longer. I took 100mg split within about a 12 hour period. No issues. On my redeye flight back, I had several drinks to help fall asleep. Yesterday, I returned in town and had been home for about 5 hours or so.

 

While watching TV, I noticed I started being very sensitive emotionally - laughing very easily at funny things, and also feeling like I was going to tear up over sad things. Almost like I was mildly high. Something felt off. Soon after, I noticed it was harder and harder for me to follow what was happening in the shows I was watching. This feeling increased slowly over an hour or so. It got to the point of where watching the show became a huge cognitive feat, and I was easily confused and had trouble remembering what was happening in the episode - like I couldn't connect what I was watching/hearing with anything that had happened up to that point. As my awareness of this increased, I became really worried/scared. I also had trouble communicating this to my roommate, and all I could sum it up with was "I feel very messed up and can't think straight." It took a lot of effort to have a conversation and stay focused on what I was talking about. I was lightheaded and at one point felt like I could pass out. I was also pale. Blood pressure was fine but pulse somewhat elevated. I tried eating food/sugar, pushing fluids, ice pack on my head, etc. Motor skills were okay but still took a lot of effort to move and I felt like I just needed to be still. Within about an hour I started feeling better and by the time I went to bed, I was about 60-70% of normal. Today, I'm at about 80-90% - still has been hard for me to focus at times and I feel "not as smart" as usual. Writing this is harder than usual, it seems. This morning, I followed the same mix of supplements above.

 

Can this combo of noots, maybe mixed with the Modafinil and alcohol, cause some sort of neurotoxicity? Or was this something else - maybe minor stroke (despite normal motor skills)? If it's a factor, I was very congested upon landing and ears were stuffy for several hours which seemed to affect my equilibrium some. Any thoughts on why this happened would be appreciated!

 

Edited by Mayardur, 27 June 2015 - 12:42 AM.

[stephenk]

Sounds more like an anxiety attack than anything else. 80-90% - 100% is likely more placebo than anything, too. Hope all is well now!

[renfr]

Pramiracetam

[Duchykins]

Jet lag + sleep deprivation + stimulant + alcohol + sensitivity to cabin pressurization + possible sensitivity to whatever was going on with the air filtration in the plane

 

 

I'd be surprised if this didn't make you feel like shit for a good while.

 

Calm down.

[Duchykins]

Additionally, back when I used to stay up for about two or three days at a time (before my insomnia was treated), the first day after being up all night is just like this: lightheaded, mild euphoria, talkative, a little slower than usual.

 

What I find interesting is the fact that after this really bad trip or whatever, you took all the same drugs again.

Edited by Duchykins, 07 July 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[Mayardur]

 Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. I felt fine after another night of sleep and everything is well now - I actually dropped the noots the next day, and haven't felt any difference by not taking them.

 

Pramiracetam

 

I haven't come across this as a side effect of pram. Is this something you've experienced first-hand, renfr?

 

 

Additionally, back when I used to stay up for about two or three days at a time (before my insomnia was treated), the first day after being up all night is just like this: lightheaded, mild euphoria, talkative, a little slower than usual.

 

What I find interesting is the fact that after this really bad trip or whatever, you took all the same drugs again.

 

Yes - same daily regimen that hadn't affected me prior (no modafinil). I'm actually going to chalk this up to the mix of things as you suggested, Duchykins. Interestingly, what prompted me to eat something with sugar was the fact that the beginning of my feeling off reminded me of a hypoglycemia episode with feeling really "out of it" except to the extreme and progressed even after eating something, but perhaps compounded with everything else it was amplified.

 

 

[renfr]

I never took pramiracetam and never will, but there are a lot of reports of people who took it and ended up with the same symptoms as you.
Pramiracetam is very likely to cause glutamate excitotoxicity.

[Duchykins]

I never took pramiracetam and never will, but there are a lot of reports of people who took it and ended up with the same symptoms as you.
Pramiracetam is very likely to cause glutamate excitotoxicity.

 

 

Unless you're talking about large doses of pramiracetam, I would say not really, at least not in the same sense that aniracetam, sunifiram or noopept could.   The smallest doses of those three are nearly guaranteed to trigger migraines in me, but I can tolerate piracetam, phenylpiracetam, nefiracetam and pramiracetam quite well.  In a matters of glutamate excitotoxicity and these substances, people like me are like the canary in the coal mine.  

 

I have paid attention to people who keep saying they think they might have had a sudden episode of glutamate excitotoxicity in the brain connected to any of the nootropics.  It's uncommon to see reports of heightened sensory sensitivity (visual -- usually light or movement related, olfactory, auditory, touch), sensory overload, headache, anxiety or irritation or anger, tinnitus, seizure, etc.  Things more commonly reported have no real connection with a sudden episode of glutamate excitotoxicity, such as this thread.  There seems to be a lot of anxiety and paranoia about this. 

 

In people with normal glutamatergic, ATP-PC, gabaergic systems, it takes quite a bit of extracellular glutamate to induce toxicity.  A lot.

Edited by Duchykins, 07 July 2015 - 06:41 PM.