5 replies to this topic

[123apk]

I started using Phenibut about 2 months ago for my social anxiety. I don't have it as bad as some people do, but it's still there and mainly happens when I'm out in public or have to make conversation. 

I've been cycling it (Monday ON, Tuesday off or very low dose, Wednesday ON, Thursday very low dose, Friday, Saturday and Sunday off) but ultimately need something to fill in the gaps (the off days) and hopefully eventually replace it.

I haven't had any major issues with it yet, but last week I had two days on it when I had leg spasms briefly when I went to go to sleep but I had also taken massive amounts of caffeine that week (like 8 cups of strong coffee in 8 hours plus quite a few caffeine tablets... yeah, was probably that). Haven't experienced any anxiety on off days during the weeks or over the 3 days over the weekend off. Plus I took most of a week off a fortnight ago and didn't have any strong withdrawal.

 

But I think tolerance is building because I don't feel the slight euphoria I had the first couple of times I took it and doses are getting bigger. I originally took 500mg, now I take between 1g and 1.5g. Could always cycle off again for a good while, but I just feel my normal cr*ppy self on off days let alone off weeks - lack of energy, lack of motivation, slightly depressed, fatigued but unable to sleep well and sleep not making it any better, etc. But I don't have any strong desire to take it on my off days unless I know the day is going to be a particularly challenging one, which surprised me. I forget about it on my off days.

 

Phenibut took away a large part of my anxiety, stimulated me to socialise, work faster and harder, I felt a bit stronger and generally energetic. Not necessarily happy, but got happy easily when socialising.

I've made massive strides at work on the stuff in just a couple of months and got closer to friends because I'm actually talking. So basically I'm after adaptogens or a stack of them that are similar to that, stimulating, energizing and anti-anxiety. I understand none are probably going to be as powerful as phenibut, but if I can get even half of what I feel on that I'll be happy.

 

I've been looking at Rhodiola rosea, Bacopa and Gotu Kola. Rhodiola + Bacopa looks like a stack I want to try and also each individual to see the effects of each of them. But I'm worried they'd lead to too much serotonin, so I guess either would have to cycle them or take a low dose.

Gotu kola sounds promising for anxiety, but it doesn't sound stimulating and energizing but the health benefits look quite amazing. Apart from that I'm not really sure about it. It sounds like it calms you down without making you feel sedated and tired?

 

I recently tried Ashwagandha. Hard to tell if it works. I think I've been a bit less anxious on it and it definitely put me in a few deep sleeps. But it doesn't make me feel any more alert, motivated or energetic so I don't like it so far. Been taking it on both Phenibut on and off days for a week now - 2 caps twice a day.

 

Tried St Johns wort 2 weeks ago on a phenibut off week and actually felt crap on it. It seemed to promote anxiety and depression the few times I took it, but I felt fine when I stopped using it. Have chucked it.

 

Would appreciate any thoughts. Cheers

Edited by 123apk, 28 June 2015 - 04:03 PM.

[The Brain]

Just in the tolerance issue, I've found that it doesn't keep increasing so that you end up having to take increasing amounts. I've reached a plateau at where I get results at a regular dose at five days a week, I take weekends off. My current dose is quite a bit higher than yours at 3.5-4 grams but now that I'm at that level I have consistent results which really only fluctuates with my own baseline mood.

[123apk]

That's not too bad then if it actually does plateau eventually. My current batch is running out so will start these adaptogens whilst still cycling phenibut. They may take a few weeks to kick in I gather, but if they are OK then might not get more phenibut. If I don't really feel anything then will get another batch of it and keep researching.

[The Brain]

Yeah I've tried all that herbsl stuff too and unfortunately none of it does anything for me, phenibut has been the only thing I've tried that actually has any noticeable effects but lots of people do seen to have luck with them so good luck, certainly a better way to go.

[123apk]

After trying a Rhodiola complex, Gotu Kola and Ashwagandha each for a week I conclude that none of them work well enough. Didn't expect herbs to do so tbh because more potent herbs would likely be classified as drugs alongside the likes of cannabis and khat. Anything that would bring about an altered state of mind to that extent and wasn't regulated and restricted in favour of pharmaceuticals the governments just wouldn't like.

What I noticed - Rhodiola complex (with a load of other stuff in, mainly cr*p like chamomile, but also Siberian ginseng) - didn't make much difference apart from I found myself feeling pissed of and even angry. I think I had a weird reaction to it. No increase in energy, no motivation, very weak anti anxiety effect.

Ashwagandha - made me tired, but didn't lead to good sleep, just felt groggy on it and have me brain fog. No strong anti anxiety effect, at higher doses it made my brain feel slow and I could barely concentrate or think.

Gotu kola - actually felt decent effects from this at first. Felt immediately, seemed to relax my body, maybe the increased circulation? I get aching legs and a tired body after work (it's very physically demanding). Took this and suddenly my body felt relaxed and the ache in my legs went and they even felt good. Haven't noticed this effect after the first few times though. Not sure about the anti anxiety effect because haven't been on it long enough.


Have also ordered a 5htp complex to improve my sleep. Any anti anxiety effect from that will be a bonus. I used 5htp before and although it doesn't knock me out, I usually felt like I'd gotten a good nights sleep on it, felt well rested but not to a huge extent. The complex includes choline and inositol which upregulate gaba receptors if I remember right, and l glutamine which gets converted into gaba?

I'm pretty sure now that it's gaba b targeting things that I need for anxiety and serotonin-targeting things like 5htp for sleep.

I may get bacopa to combine with Gotu kola to make the "brahmi" combination. Presumably bacopa offsets Gotu kola by up regulating the receptors. Be interesting to see if upregulating receptors would ultimately provide a cure or whether my anxiety would simply adapt to it. :/

For now I'm cycling Phenibut and using Gotu kola on phenibut off days and will be using 5htp to sleep.
I don't think Gotu kola has a strong enough gabaergic effect to really effect phenibut tolerance that much but I'll watch it and come off it if I need to.
Some of the other ingredients in the 5htp complex might also effect gaba too like l theanine but I also don't think the effect will be strong enough.
Ultimately I might slow down caffeine intake and try to upregulate the receptors, but for now I plan on using the gaba-b and 5htp combo. Just wish I hadn't wasted so much money on these other herbs.

[Dakman]

You should try Baclofen if you can get it legally where you are, it's the pharmaceutical version of Phenibut and potent at much smaller doses and a much reduced tolerance profile.  Or again if legal for the UK, Kratom, I personally can't vouch for this as it's not available for me in my country but it closely resembles some of the social and anti anxiety effects that Phenibut has. A very different substance and comes with it's own risk of addiction as it works on the  opioid system