10 replies to this topic

[larrgus]

Hi!

 

I wanted to try out some nootropics and I was about my make my first order and then

I decided to do a quick search on the things I wanted to order and I felt like none of it is really safe! I found all kinds of

risks and possible side effects and drug interactions and none of this was mentioned at the bulk supplement shop where

I wanted to place my order. I feel really uncertain now and also worry about safety in general. To me it makes no sense to

take anything which can cause damage to the body.

 

Things I wanted to order:

 

choline -> then I read it is converted into TMAO (sp?) in the body which raises risk of atherosclerosis

 

Acetyl L Carnitine -> I read it can mess with the thyroid and I am taking thyroid hormones for hypothyroidism, I also read it can

cause bladder infections and that it also raises TMAO and the risk of artery disease

 

DL Phenylalanine -> I read it must not be taken when you have depression or a melanoma does this mean it can cause skin cancer?

I have a few moles on my body which are harmless but what if taking DLP can make the moles become dangerous?!

 

Tyrosine -> I read it must not be taken when you have skin cancer, the same question again. Can taking tyrosine raise the risk of skin cancer?

 

Inositol -> I read it helps with anxiety but I also read that it totally lowers testosterone! NOWHERE in any shop did I find a warning about this which

is pretty unbelievable. Why are men not warned?

 

-----

 

What do you guys say about this?

 

To me it seems like none of these supplements is really safe and these are relatively "mild" ones not even racetames or harder stuff. If these these totally

usual supplements which you get anywhere can have such side effects then what about racetams?

I really wanted to try out things but now I don't know what to do.

 

I also have to mention that I have depression and anxiety and I'm taking a SSRI. I also don't even know which supplements I could take when I'm taking a SSRI.

 

What would you advise me to do? Should I stay clear from all "nootropics"? I am simply unhappy cause the antidepressants don't help me and I was thinking about

trying other things which could help with mood and concentration. I also have concentration issues.

Edited by larrgus, 29 June 2015 - 10:33 PM.

[Dolph]

The first question you should ask if there are ANY "nootropics" that are EFFECTIVE in the first place!

This will help you to close the case much quicker...

[Darryl]

Given my personal experience with long-term SSRI use (tardive dysphoria), a common side-effect of dopamine antagonists (tardive dyskinesia), and the animal developmental issues with numerous antidepressants, I fear most attempts to modulate neurotransmitters with exogenous compounds will bring compensatory alterations in receptor sensitivity as the neurons attempt to restore homeostasis. A cursory glance at the nootropics forum indicates cycling regimens to counter nootropic resistance and tardive effects are common.

[ceridwen]

It's all a matter of balance isn't it. Is the nootropic worth the risk of experimenting with. Do the gains outweigh the costs. What the drug can do for you vs the risk of a side effect. Whatever I'm sure that Nootropics are as safe if not much safer than most pharmecuticals

The risk of having side effects might really be quite small

[larrgus]

The first question you should ask if there are ANY "nootropics" that are EFFECTIVE in the first place!

This will help you to close the case much quicker...

 

You mean they all don't work?

 

@ ceridwen

 

But let's say you find a nootropic which works then you want to take it all the time right?

But choline for example already raises risk of arteriosclerosis at 250mg/day which is really a low dose!

Some people take many grams of it daily. Maybe they don't even know about this. But at Linus Pauling sites

in the article about choline it says this.

[Dolph]

 

The first question you should ask if there are ANY "nootropics" that are EFFECTIVE in the first place!

This will help you to close the case much quicker...

 

You mean they all don't work?

 

Well, let's say they would be used more in actual medical practice if they did, right? For me, I'm pretty sure that nothing I tried ever had any noticable effect on me, including all the popular racetams and so on.

[brosci]

I'm in a similar boat, looking into ALCAR and choline, and not yet sure if there's a risk.

 

Theanine is pretty safe as far as nootropics go, but it's borderline anti-nootropic for me.  Coffee + Green Tea are fairly safe and effective.  MCT oil seems fairly safe.

 

My dietary intake of choline is under 400mg (I don't eat a lot of meat or eggs), where the recommended adequate intake is 550mg.  I see on the Linus Pauling website that 250 mg of total choline from food plus 250 mg of supplemental phosphatidylcholine lead to TMAO and increased risk of atherosclerosis, however, it also mentions "at present, there is no evidence that dietary choline increases the risk of cardiovascular events."  It seems to me like the dietary choline would be in the form of phosphatidylcholine and sit around for gut fermentation to TMAO longer than a quick shot of pure phosphatidylcholine on an empty stomach?  Looking at 250mg of CDP-Choline (a nootropic dose that's usually well tolerated), it's only 18% choline by weight, where that would be something like the amount of choline from 1/3 of a single egg -- that doesn't seem like a lot of risk for TMAO if eggs aren't a problem.

 

Looking at ALCAR, I'm seeing TMAO wasn't significantly elevated under a 2,000mg dose, where a standard nootropic dose is something like a quarter of that amount.  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16988205

 

It seems like if TMAO is a risk, then seafood above all other foods should be avoided.  I'm curious how TMAO or elevated choline is thought to act to induce atherosclerotic plaque formation (does it raise LDL?)

Edited by brosci, 16 July 2015 - 10:37 PM.

[Mind]

Caffeine. Safe. Effective. Has anti-aging and brain-protective properties.

[ceridwen]

Choline gave me an immediate panic attack

[normalizing]

choline is garbage. always gives me anxiety and makes me feel shitty. way overrated crap

[TommoOZ]

if you are worried about atherosclerosis and have been to a site, on Linus Pauling, then take take 3-10 grams grams of vitamin C per day ( your body will love this powerful anti-oxidant ), with a few grams of Proline and Lysine as this will help you make collagen and have happy arteries and help clear existing plaque.

 

My father also used to take after I suggested it around 10 grams of gelatin and it helped his arthritis. This has building blocks for collagen as well, and its cheap. You could also help collagen formation with collagen hydrosolate ( mixes better). You get atherosclerosis because your body cannot make collagen and proper arteries and your body puts down plaque to actually keep you alive as you are not feeding it with the right materials. Dr Thomas Levy explains this very well in his book " Stop America's number one Killer'.

 

His website is http://www.peakenergy.com/ I have read 3 of his books.

 

I am looking to try some Nootropics and my reading thus far says you need some choline.

 

Some people seem to get nice effects ( better memory and concentration) just taking CDP Choline

 

I know the Vitamin C I take ,( sodium ascorbate powder and time release tablets) means I overcome colds and flu better and faster in my 50's than younger employees who I see linger for weeks, who are around 30. I have taken up to 30 grams on days I have been very sick. If you are not sick and take to much it will have a mild laxative effects, as your body gets rid of the excess.

 

As Dr Thomas Levy cardiologist puts it, "every disease, virus, infection , etc. causes oxidative stress , and your body is screaming for anti oxidants to combat that.

 

I see Vitamin C everyday as a must have, and I am looking into writing a personal;health directive,with my directive stating the use of IV vitamin in critical situations. Seriously look at the video's in youtube on Thomas Levy, plus the 60 Minutes NZ, Living Proof Vit C video.

 

The ignorance in mainstream medicine on Vitamin C is ignorant and some would say borders on criminal.

 

I have taken Theanine and it was calming for me.