49 replies to this topic

[Area-1255]

So besides 9-me-BC what else would you suggest to rebuild the brain from this sort of damage?

Maybe Inositol and Forskolin. Inositol at 5 grams a day to start...spread throughout..maybe work up to 8-10grams or more.

 

 

Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2001 Feb;68(2):245-53.

Chronic inositol increases striatal D(2) receptors but does not modify dexamphetamine-induced motor behavior. Relevance to obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Harvey BH1, Scheepers A, Brand L, Stein DJ.

Author information

 

Abstract

A large body of evidence suggests that the neuropathology of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) lies in the complex neurotransmitter network of the cortico-striatal-thalamo-cortical (CSTC) circuit, where dopamine (DA), serotonin (5HT), glutamate (Glu), and gamma-amino butyric acid (GABA) dysfunction have been implicated in the disorder. Chronic inositol has been found to be effective in specific disorders that respond to selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), including OCD, panic, and depression. This selective mechanism of action is obscure. Since nigro-striatal DA tracts are subject to 5HT(2) heteroreceptor regulation, one possible mechanism of inositol in OCD may involve its effects on inositol-dependent receptors, especially the 5HT(2) receptor, and a resulting effect on DA pathways in the striatum. In order to investigate this possible interaction, we exposed guinea pigs to oral inositol (1.2 g/kg) for 12 weeks. Subsequently, effects on locomotor behavior (LB) and stereotype behavior (SB), together with possible changes to striatal 5HT(2) and D(2) receptor function, were determined. In addition, the effects of chronic inositol on dexamphetamine (DEX)-induced motor behavior were evaluated. Acute DEX (3 mg/kg, ip) induced a significant increase in both SB and LB, while chronic inositol alone did not modify LA or SB. The behavioral response to DEX was also not modified by chronic inositol pretreatment. However, chronic inositol induced a significant increase in striatal D(2) receptor density (B(max)) with a slight, albeit insignificant, increase in 5HT(2) receptor density. This suggests that D(2) receptor upregulation may play an important role in the behavioral effects of inositol although the role of the 5HT(2) receptor in this response is questionable.

PMID:   11267629   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Cell Mol Neurobiol. 1997 Oct;17(5):547-55.

Molecular mechanisms underlying forskolin-mediated up-regulation of human dopamine D2L receptors.

Wanderoy MH1, Westlind-Danielsson A.

Author information

 

Abstract

1. Human dopamine (DA) D2long (hD2L) receptors, expressed by Ltk- cells, can be up-regulated by treating the cells with forskolin for 16 hr (Johansson and Westlind-Danielsson, 1994). We have examined some of the molecular mechanisms underlying this forskolin-mediated up-regulation. 2. Forskolin (100 microM, 16 hr), but not 1,9-dideoxyforskolin, a forskolin analogue that is unable to activate adenylyl cyclase and raise intracellular cAMP concentrations, up-regulates the hD2L receptor population by 43%. The implication of a cAMP-dependent increase in the receptor up-regulation was further substantiated by treating the cells with 8-bromo-cAMP or prostaglandin E1 (PGE1). The forskolin-mediated rise in receptor number was blocked by cycloheximide or an antisense phosphorothioate oligodeoxynucleotide (ODN) directed toward the hD2L mRNA. KT5720, a specific protein kinase A (PKA) inhibitor, completely blocked the receptor rise, whereas pertussis toxin (PTX) attenuated the increase considerably. Forskolin also produced an increase in the level of the DA hD2short (hD2S) receptor expressed by Ltk- cells. This increase was 2.5-fold higher than that found for the hD2L receptor. 3. The forskolin-mediated hD2L receptor rise is dependent on de novo protein synthesis, a rise in cAMP levels, PKA activation, and, at least partially, PTX-sensitive G proteins. 4. Long-term increases in intracellular cAMP levels may change the sensitivity of a DA receptor expressing cell to DA by increasing D2 receptor density through enhanced cAMP-dependent transcription.

PMID:   9353595   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Personality disorders can not be treated with medications - that is true; but mainly because personality is ideology intertwined with unique experiences...therefore unless that person WANTS to change; and truly understands what is within themselves and why they feel the way they do - all will be to no avail.

 

While I was a child I had no problem staying alone and being totally occupied of my own fantasies to the point of losing awareness of my environment and other people.

Though of course this changed as I reached puberty and now in my adult years I've lost this ability to fantasize and "escape" even more and I've become as feableminded as a majority of people are in terms of having lost my self-restraint and being unable to live without petty feelgood things.

Unlike myself, my father prefers other people, although as I said he doesn't like eye contact, is "unshakeable" (blunted?) in his emotions unlike what is normal, and so on like myself.

 

In my own case I don't think the problem is "attitude" or belief, certainly it's inconceivable to me that my symptoms are just a byproduct of silly things such as being secluded.

And if it was the original intent that humankind be social then I am prepared to do as much as is possible to become social; it just doesn't seem so. It seems rather that the original intent was that humankind should live with their own kind (family) and it also seems that the socialized world - the society - is a byproduct of humans becoming more diseased with time and more and more being removed from the original intent.

[gamesguru]

There are meds approved for borderline, but they aren't very effective at treating it:

risperidone and haloperidol may reduce anger and flupenthixol may reduce the likelihood of suicidal behavior. Among the atypical antipsychotics, one trial found that aripiprazole may reduce interpersonal problems and impulsivity.[120] Olanzapine may decrease affective instability, anger, psychotic paranoid symptoms, and anxiety, but a placebo had a greater ameliorative impact on suicidal ideation than olanzapine
valproate semisodium may ameliorate depression, interpersonal problems, and anger. Lamotrigine may reduce impulsivity and anger; topiramate may ameliorate interpersonal problems, impulsivity, anxiety, anger, and general psychiatric pathology. The effect of carbamazepine was not significant. Of the antidepressants, amitriptyline may reduce depression, but mianserin, fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, and phenelzine sulfate showed no effect. Omega-3 fatty acid may ameliorate suicidality and improve depression.

 

Personality disorders aren't totally attitude-based, cause even with people that aren't stubborn, therapy doesn't achieve complete remission.  It may be more about attitude and therapy than depression or anxiety, which are more fatalistic.

I think it's just a more unusual imbalance on unusual receptors that makes it a hard target to treat, or other polymorphisms on other unusual proteins or transcript factors. /broscience

[PeaceAndProsperity]

There are meds approved for borderline

 

Borderline personality disorder!?

[gamesguru]

To go or not to go send you my ear, that is the question. 

If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced.

Edited by gamesguru, 01 October 2015 - 09:08 PM.

[Area-1255]

 

There are meds approved for borderline

 

Borderline personality disorder!?

 

Yes, it's a pattern of impulsivity and depressive/bipolar type behavior...but it stems from deep-seated trauma or repeated abuse ...it can also arise from a lack of connectivity to others coupled with being bullied etc...it is basically an emotional-instability-type-condition...it seems to affect females more than men but can certainly affect both...

Homicide and Suicide are much more likely in those suffering with BPD; and women who are afflicted with it tend to drugs and other self-medicating coping disorders and often have a multitude of sexual partners and / or engaged in other 'risky' sexual behavior....   

....in all reality -the concise summary would be 'that which represents the border between anxiety and psychosis'...

https://en.wikipedia...nality_disorder

http://psychcentral....order-symptoms/

Edited by Area-1255, 01 October 2015 - 10:49 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Is that implying that I have borderline pd?

 

It seems pregnenolone really did help my blunted affect and effectively so, but it certainly didn't remove it (when I've taken it) completely.

Maybe Jaiho should give it a try as well and see what he experiences? I would be very interested to know.

 

It seems pregnenolone has clear dopamingergic and glutaminergic activity, but what about serotonergic, gabaergic and so on? Given that it's a prohormone to so many things, one would think it at least lightly covers all or almost all.

[jaiho]

I want to try that stuff but its restricted in Australia, oddly enough.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I want to try that stuff but its restricted in Australia, oddly enough.

 

What about DHEA? DHEA is at least legal in the US, so why not in Australia? I think DHEA is what exerts those positive effects from pregnenolone since, as far as I've read, all the benefits of better memory (probably glutamine-related) of pregnenolone are seen in DHEA, too, and preg. converts also to DHEA, among others.

I've yet to try DHEA but I will very soon once the order arrives.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I hope it's not a problem that I continue to write in my own thread, even if I have to make a new input only every week or whatever it is (due to packages being slow in delivery and obviously I need time to test the supplements).

 

I ordered DHEA and it got confiscated by the mind-numbingly stupid EU customs. Thanks, democracy!

I also got a letter that I will be contacted by police. It's only fckn DHEA, it's hardly an anabolic even if you mega-dose on it! What the heck is going on with the EU and these extremely odd legislations, and how on Earth am I supposed to know what arbitrary thing they've now banned from import? You can't buy DHEA or even progesterone but you can buy alcohol and often you can buy even worse recreational drugs that have absolutely no positive effects and are only abused by people for a short high! Alcohol is a neuro toxin after all, isn't it? Why isn't that banned? Because a majority of people want to drink it? Well, a majority of people don't want the immigration policies and a thousand other policies - yet when has that ever changed anything, that a majority doesn't want something? Democracy hypocrisy!

 

(If anyone has any advice on where and how to buy DHEA for someone living in Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, or any of the other EU countries with insane custom services, please let me know in private or in this thread).

Maybe DHEA isn't even worth the trouble?

 

I also bought lithium orotate and it actually arrived (3 weeks late, yay!), and I've taken it for two days now.

So far it doesn't seem to bring emotions back as much as it just stabilizes me - as it is obviously also claimed to do.

It seems now things effect me slightly less. I've also gotten a massive headache in the right upper part of my skull, the same I get from caffeine withdrawal, but I don't think I've consumed caffeine (other than chocolate candy) so it is possible that the lithium has caused this problem?

The dosage is 5mg of orotate and I haven't exeeded that on any of the days.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I've finally gotten to actually try dhea and to summarize my experience over 3 days: it's surprisingly useless for me. Here's what I've tried: 100mg dhea + 20mg pregnenolone. 50mg dhea + 10mg pregnenolone. Dhea 25-100mg before bed and in the morning. Dhea alone, without pregnenolone or anything else, and dhea in conjunction with lithium orotate (and lithium works fine with pregnenolone). It seems that if I take dhea, I won't feel having taken pregnenolone - perhaps dhea competes with the same receptors as pregnenolone? But then I should feel dhea working which I don't. And if I take too high a dose of dhea with pregnenolone, I risk feeling "out of it," almost dizzy but not exactly so. Dhea in of itself gives me hardly any experience of having taken it, besides that after 1 hour of having taken 100mg my nipples flare up, which subsides to almost nothing after another hour - but never any "masculine" feeling as other users report. I've got the Natrol 25mg dhea, 300 capsules bottle.

[normalizing]

any updates to this ratherbeunknown

[PeaceAndProsperity]

any updates to this ratherbeunknown

Yes. GABA-A receptor activation in addition to stimulants (dopaminergics), or so long as I am already "uplifted", bring back emotions.

Also, too high serotonin (in the serotonin syndrome area) CAN cause flat affect, blunted emotions..

[Mind_Paralysis]

Wow.

 

Considering you already, back in 2015 and the first post, described Schizotypal PD -symptoms... I can hardly believe how someone could be so ignorant as to suggest you try Psilocybin as a part of the treatment of your symptoms.

 

Psilocybin is one of the staples in psychosis modelling and testing, as you are probably now aware. That stuff could have killed you.

Yeah, it could have given you back emotions all right, but at what cost?

EVERYthing else?? Dear lord...

 

Link:

-------

https://www.research...54043000000.pdf

 

 

Btw, since you've now got a diagnosis of Schizotypal PD, which you have mentioned that you don't necessarily see every aspect as something needing treatment, is your view on the need to correct flat affect really still the same  now, as back then? Do you actually feel a need to be more emotional?

 

Too bad we can't recreate and bottle flattened affect from Schizotypal PD in the treatment of Borderline PD btw - since they instead have super-enhanced affect, wrecking havoc with every aspect of not just there's, but the lives of others as well.

 

Hmm... wait a minute... you mention GABA-A activation... perhaps... GABA-A ANTAGONISM could be useful in BPD? Hmm... doesn't seem logical at first, what with gaba being inhibitory, and BPD's being the least inhibited of possibly all neurotypes, but then nobody thought Metadoxin would work as an enhancer of GABA-activity either, or that enhanced GABA-activity wouldn't be sedating nor memory-impairing, now did they?

[gamesguru]

The emotional flattening or social anhedonia is part of the core empathetic symptoms, including flattened affect and impaired facial recognition processing. Added up, these can cause severe impairment of social functioning. I made a thread on it. Before I began the research, Flex kind of suggested me glutamate was the culprit, and pretty much it is. But the thing is, I haven't noticed a huge improvement on social function from the regimen, so either it takes time or something like alpha-7 is involved?

 

With schizotypy the positive symptoms are mild, and generally benign (correct me if I'm wrong). The cognitive symptoms are peculiar and difficult to characterize. Though on the whole less intense and debilitating, they are more systemic and more difficult to treat, imo, than in traditional schizophrenia.

[normalizing]

 

any updates to this ratherbeunknown

Yes. GABA-A receptor activation in addition to stimulants (dopaminergics), or so long as I am already "uplifted", bring back emotions.

Also, too high serotonin (in the serotonin syndrome area) CAN cause flat affect, blunted emotions..

 

 

hi my friend, i have similar problem as you, can you please help and tell me what is your regime, what do you take???

[PeaceAndProsperity]

 

 

any updates to this ratherbeunknown

Yes. GABA-A receptor activation in addition to stimulants (dopaminergics), or so long as I am already "uplifted", bring back emotions.

Also, too high serotonin (in the serotonin syndrome area) CAN cause flat affect, blunted emotions..

 

 

hi my friend, i have similar problem as you, can you please help and tell me what is your regime, what do you take???

 

It used to be dht and dhea until I got into trouble with the poh leash. I guess high amounts of taurine and caffeine can provide the same effects but it's very inconsistent as one would guess. Honestly, tiny amounts (10 or so mg) of ginkgo biloba seem to be effective likewise, but the dosing has to be carefully considered (for me)

[normalizing]

not sure how you got in trouble with the police using dhea...

 

so all you are using now is just those 3? im shocked as to how you have simplified so much so and you are finding it to work

[PeaceAndProsperity]

not sure how you got in trouble with the police using dhea...

 

so all you are using now is just those 3? im shocked as to how you have simplified so much so and you are finding it to work

Ginkgo Biloba seems to help with visual distortions and heat sensitivity, and also sometimes with affective symptoms.

Taurine together with a stimulant seems to primarily help affective symptoms before visual distortions and so on.

I don't use them daily, only when I see a specific need because taurine causes insomnia and caffeine results in headache.

My daily supplements are 1.5g glucosamine, 500mg calcium ascorbate and 9mg triple blend of boron. These I take for other reasons.

 

I do believe that something has happened to me since I'm sure those things wouldn't have worked much when I was really down the hole.

Dhea and dht practically always works no matter how bad I feel. Dhea is viewed as an anabolic steroid where I live, and so are all of the "androste" chemicals. I should just have went with test. injections instead, it would have given me practically all the same effects I am sure, and then my punishment would be less severe 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I feel like thread is too specified to my own problems and didn't start well so it would be proper for someone who still wants to continue the topic to make their own general thread.

I request the thread to be locked by a mod. Any questions or comments can be directed to my personal messaging.