11 replies to this topic

[jefferson]

Solgar is now carrying the NOVAsol brand of curcumin http://www.solgar.co...um-Curcumin.htm based on its micellar formulation detailed in this study http://novasolcurcum...ical-Study.pdf. This could make it the most bioavailable product on the market, absorbed 100-200x better than normal curcumin. I've been taking it for three weeks. Just thought I'd let people know since they don't seem to be aggressively marketing it.

[normalizing]

so you have been taking it for 3 weeks, what are the results then? kind of interesting you advertise the product predominantly and then say "oh i  have been taking it" and then conclude with this

Edited by normalizing, 19 July 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Despite appearances, jefferson isn't a troll, but his study link is nonfunctional, so try this one instead. He approached me privately after reading about my Longvida megadose trial (with Lumosity results posted on this page on 7/17/2015) whereupon I recommended that he share the science behind micelle curcumin because it seems to be relatively unknown and is purportedly advantageous for the reasons he cited. I'm going to give it a try soon myself, after a few days' break from Longvida in order to clear the slate. Note that the Solgar stuff, although using some variety of micelle, does not appear to be of the Cur-PLGA-NP form used in the study.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 19 July 2015 - 03:25 PM.

[jefferson]

so you have been taking it for 3 weeks, what are the results then? kind of interesting you advertise the product predominantly and then say "oh i  have been taking it" and then conclude with this

 

Well, seeing as I don't have a clone of myself to act as a control, I can't really say. It's effects are likely subtle, like with many supplements.

 

This is a positively conservative "advertisement". Go take a look at how aggressive the revgenetics guy was hawking his Metacurcumin to see how it's really done.

[normalizing]

there was a guy who actually claimed he can feel curcumin from longvida and it acts as antidepressant so i assumed maybe you would have felt the same with this prototype

[resveratrol_guy]

I started with the Solgar today, and will report Lumosity effects in due course over here. I also started lion's mane just recently, which obviously blurs the results. But if works, I don't think it's too hard to copy the regimen.

 

@ normalizing: Longvida is definitely something you feel on a musculoskeletal level, assuming that you have typical aches and pains to begin with. This occurs simultaneously with a noticeable improvement in longterm recall, within digestive latency, and persists for a few hours. With continued use, Lumosity seemed to reflect an increase in LTP, which would indeed be typical of an SSRI effect plateau. I discussed this at length in the aforelinked thread. I agree that Solgar should produce the same effects to some degree, as it's fundamentally the same stuff in a different lilliputian package. But BBB permeability in humans is obviously a complicated parameter, so I make no assumptions in this regard, despite jefferson's good evidence above for high plasma AUC.

 

[jefferson]

there was a guy who actually claimed he can feel curcumin from longvida and it acts as antidepressant so i assumed maybe you would have felt the same with this prototype

 

If it's working as an AD it's effects are subtle. However it's only been three weeks, and it takes about 6 weeks for newborn neurons to mature and integrate themselves in hippocampal circuitry, so no surprise.

[normalizing]

where did you read it takes about 6 weeks for newborn neurons to mature and integrate in the hippocampus?

[Phoenicis]

If it's the same stuff as in this study I do trust it. This particular study had funding from the German government and I was curious about the formulation ever since. Looks very potent.

Schiborr, C. Et al. (2014), The oral bioavailability of curcumin from micronized powder and liquid micelles is significantly increased in healthy humans and differs between sexes. Mol. Nutr. Food Res., 58: 516–527. doi: 10.1002/mnfr.201300724

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24402825

Edited by Phoenicis, 21 July 2015 - 10:03 PM.

[jefferson]

where did you read it takes about 6 weeks for newborn neurons to mature and integrate in the hippocampus?

 

Maybe even longer, although it depends exactly on what I mean by "integrate".

 

See Maturation time of new granule cells in the dentate gyrus of adult macaque monkeys exceeds six months

http://www.pnas.org/...8/25/10326.full

 

"Antidepressants generally take 3–5 wk to have clinical efficacy on depression in humans (22, 51), a period that coincides with the maturation of adult born neurons in the hippocampus of the adult rat (14, 16, 18). However, the data we report here suggests that the time course of adult hippocampal neuronal maturation in a nonhuman primate is at least 6 times slower. Due to the increased size and longer developmental maturation of the human brain, we predict that the maturation period of adult generated neurons would be further lengthened. Thus, there is a marked mismatch between the onset of the clinical effects of antidepressants and the time that would be required for maturation of new hippocampal granule cells in humans. This mismatch argues against the hypothesis that hippocampal neurogenesis is a critical mechanism underlying the initiation of effectiveness of antidepressant medications."

 

I always chuckle to myself when people on here claim to feel neurogenesis after a few days from whatever they're taking. I don't care if it's Prozac or Curcumin or NSI-189, it takes many weeks for new neurons to mature in humans and functionally start doing things. 

 

This is an older summary of research. http://www.functiona...tag/timecourse/

[DeadMeat]

As already mentioned(and deleted) in the MetaCurcumin advertisement thread. That 100-200x bioavailability thing is a bit misleading. Since they measured total curcumin(free + metabolites as curcumin glucuronide, not to be confused with the difference between curcumin, DMC and BDMC) instead of just free curcumin. This is due to their use of beta-glucuronidase, that converts things as curcumin glucuronide back into curcumin before the measurement with HPLC.
http://onlinelibrary...r.201300724/pdf

To each plasma or urine sample, 100uL beta-glucuronidase type H-1 from Helix pomatia (3 mg/100uL in 0.1 M sodium acetate buffer; Sigma-Aldrich Chemie GmbH, Schnelldorf, Germany) were added and samples incubated at 37C for 45 min.

 

Curcumin, DMC, or BDMC were not detected in any of the baseline fasting plasma samples. Maximum plasma total curcumin, DMC, and BDMC concentrations (maximum plasma concentration (Cmax)) and their respective AUC were significantly higher after the consumption of curcumin micronisate and micelles than native curcumin (Fig. 1).

 

a) AUC, area under the blood concentration-time curve; Cmax, maximum blood concentration, CUR, curcumin; n.d., not detected; Tmax, time to reach maximum blood concentration.
b) Free curcumin concentrations were quantified by extraction of the analyte without prior enzymatic hydrolysis of conjugates with B-glucuronidase/sulfatase.
c) Total curcumin concentrations were quantified by extraction of the analyte after prior enzymatic hydrolysis of conjugates with B-glucuronidase/sulfatase.

 

[normalizing]

 

where did you read it takes about 6 weeks for newborn neurons to mature and integrate in the hippocampus?

 

Maybe even longer, although it depends exactly on what I mean by "integrate".

 

See Maturation time of new granule cells in the dentate gyrus of adult macaque monkeys exceeds six months

http://www.pnas.org/...8/25/10326.full

 

"Antidepressants generally take 3–5 wk to have clinical efficacy on depression in humans (22, 51), a period that coincides with the maturation of adult born neurons in the hippocampus of the adult rat (14, 16, 18). However, the data we report here suggests that the time course of adult hippocampal neuronal maturation in a nonhuman primate is at least 6 times slower. Due to the increased size and longer developmental maturation of the human brain, we predict that the maturation period of adult generated neurons would be further lengthened. Thus, there is a marked mismatch between the onset of the clinical effects of antidepressants and the time that would be required for maturation of new hippocampal granule cells in humans. This mismatch argues against the hypothesis that hippocampal neurogenesis is a critical mechanism underlying the initiation of effectiveness of antidepressant medications."

 

I always chuckle to myself when people on here claim to feel neurogenesis after a few days from whatever they're taking. I don't care if it's Prozac or Curcumin or NSI-189, it takes many weeks for new neurons to mature in humans and functionally start doing things. 

 

This is an older summary of research. http://www.functiona...tag/timecourse/

 

 

 

thats a long period to be relavent really. because from what i have read, neurons die each day much quicker and plenty compared to new ones being formed, especially as one gets older. so really, 6 weeks (minimum) is still a long shot in the dark to get anything going.