48 replies to this topic

[mccoy]

Haha awesome, i was just thinking about stating my reasons for clarification.

Well, the main reason is confusion.
Confusion about the benefits compared to a waterfast, like what does it mean to eat without the body knowing it does? Ofcourse the food youre consuming gets processed =metabolic processes=diminished somethings compared to waterfast. Maybe negative effects are diminished, maybe positive, maybe both. Untill those things get explained a waterfast is fine for me and more in line with evolutionary stresses and responses.
I am hoping that fmd is something of a bodyhack, giving (almost) all the benefits of a full waterfast but adding extra benefits.

 

One thing is sure: a total water fast is undisputably the best, most straightforward means to body purification and regeneration. As far as it would descend from Longo's reseach though, a thorough regeneration requires a minimum lenght, about 5 days (the lenght of his FMD). I have no idea how this 5-days value has been exactly determined. Now, a 5-days fast on only water is not a cinch. I did it once when younger and though I was pretty strong-willed it was not easy at all, I planned to fast 6 days but interrupted after 5 since I remember I could just not study for my college exams. A water only fast is just that, water and nothing else, only a few drops of lemon juice in water is allowed.

 

Whereas now Prof. Longo comes along, says, 'You don't need to undergo such an ordeal and most people won't even start up anyway. So let's find somethign which gioves similar results with lesser effort'.

 

The benefits are those expounded in Longo and collaborator's articles. Notably, lower IGF-1, rejuvenation of the immune system, prevention from cancer and other degenerative disease. I don't know if Longo also made comparative studies between total fast and mimicked fast, probably so on rats.

 

Now, if you are able to go through a more rigid 5-days fast that's all right, vegs and some healthy fats not above 800 kCal a day is just Longo's upper threshold.

 

I'm not monitoring myself now, but for my bodyweight. Having done total fasts, I can tell you the effects are similar but far milder than those of a total fast. I'm going to post reports about that as well.

 

Last, it is reasonable to believe, given the host of research led by Longo and his team, that as you say FMD is a bodyhack giving almost all the benefits of a full waterfast. No benefits added I believe, except the very remarkable benefit that you can decide to make a FMD almost anywhere anytime, whereas on a total fast you need some rest. It is also far easier to replicate the FMD especially for those who need it bimonthly (6 times a year).

 

Bottom line, very few people that I know are able to go through a 5-days fast more times per year. Now the benefits of such a scheme are available to all people.

 

If the FMD really works as Valter Longo contends, this is most probably the major breakthrough in the natural healthspan & longevity strategies so far. 

[mccoy]

This is day 3 of the FMD. By a little advance planning of the meals, I've been able to reach the target, that is carbs=fats (46%=46%) and a little less proteins (8%) which is all right. I'm taking no supplements and, beyond water, 3 cups of unsweetened tea per day.

First two days I had occasional cravings and was sleepier than usual. Today I've had some hunger and  tonight am very sleepy. Physical endurance and strength have dropped whereas cognitive faculties are apparently unaffected. I've been working as usual.

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[sthira]

Thank you for your detailed descriptions of your self-experimentation with Longo's FMD, McCoy. I'm wondering if you've plans to buy five-days worth of one of Longo's boxes itself? It might make an interesting cronometer experiment to compare your dietary values against his.

[mccoy]

Hi sthira, nice to hear from you in this other forum as well and your parrot avatar is way cool!

 

Soon I'm going to open an FMD-cronometer thread in the other forum as well, since the discussion started from there to expand here.

 

Since I'm no overweight guy, as per Longo's suggestions it might take some time before the next FMD, perhaps 4 months (my initial target is thrice a year). No doubt the experimentation with Nutralong's package would be interesting, but I'm no fan of packaged food and the user nickdino above explained the difficulties of acquiring a package: official request from a physician or nutritionist, relatively high cost. On top of it, I like the freedom to choose my daily variety of foods and the engineering of it (computing macros and ratios). 

 

No doubt though the package is a useful support for those who are very busy or unwilling to weigh everything and compute ratios. Hope someone will post a report on the package as well, or maybe I'll be able to gather more detailed info at least on its content.

Edited by mccoy, 19 November 2016 - 06:55 AM.

[mccoy]

Day 4 of the FMD. Amount of macros are 46% fats, 44% proteins, 10% proteins. I added a smallish avocado to the vegetables fare which was a welcome change.

Today I experienced a significant sleepyness  and occasional hunger.

 

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[drew_ab]

Just curious what you do for work? I've thought about doing a 5-day FMD, and think I can do it and still work, but am not entirely confident.

[mccoy]

Just curious what you do for work? I've thought about doing a 5-day FMD, and think I can do it and still work, but am not entirely confident.

 

Drew, my work is mainly office work, including some outings to drive to rigs or plants. Plus some chores at home, moving stuff and so on but for just a short time. If you are an office worker, probably there are not going to be particular impediments barring some possible sleepiness bouts. Cognitive faculties in my case were perfectly all right.

Heavy labour may be different though. Moderate labour can be done but with caution. Driving is all right but when sleepiness triggers,  I just pull off and have a 15 minutes nap. 

I started on a wednesday so last two days were on a weekend. this is the last one and maybe I'm feeling better than the previous ones.

 

From Longo's book, not everyone feels the same effects. Some people have more energy, some others less. Again from the book, most people who tried the FMD started on a monday so that they could work and refeed on the weekend. From that, it descends that many people have been working for the whole duration of the  FMD. This is a distinct advantage over a water-only fast.

Edited by mccoy, 20 November 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[mccoy]

5th and last day of my first attempt at the FMD. Today's ratios were fats 48%, carbs 44%, protein 8%. I stopped 100 Kcal short of my quota of 750 allowed.

Interestingly, this has been the day during which I displayed the most energy. Blood glucose reading was 81 mg/dl. Last time, when eating as usual, it was 86.

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Edited by mccoy, 20 November 2016 - 07:02 PM.

[nickdino]

Hi everybody, i'd like to share my experience with my fasting.

So last wednesday i had breakfast, bread-eggs-cheese-ham and shortly after i decide to just stop eating and start fasting. That night though i ate a few green olives to have some food with my supplements, omega3/nac/zinc carnosine. From there untill saterday 13:00pm i tried several things to combat hunger and muscle discomfort such as teas, coffees, a cucumber sprinkled with salt and self made vegetable broth made from brocolli/spinach/sprouts/onions/ginger/garlic/parsley/some dried herbs/salt. The broth was for relieving a mild muscle burn in my calfs which helped. The cucumber with salt made my heartbeat go faster and harder. I didn't eat that again cause it made me question if it broke my fast.

Energy! Boy did it give me energy, i needed less sleep, was also more agressive, happier, clearer, better coordination, vision, higher tolerance to heat (sauna) not sure about cold. Basically it made me feel 10/15 years younger. I broke the fast without hunger but i wanted to go out and party on saturday.
I started with a bit of green salad/dark grapes/coleslaw mix. Soon after i went back to my down state as usual, gone was the energy and happyness.

So not quite a waterfast but i'm definately doing this again and improved. Works bigtime for me!

[sthira]

Interestingly, this has been the day during which I displayed the most energy.

I think this is a pretty common and surprising discovery amongst people who give fasting a try. Once over the psychological hurdles of eating-by-habit, the body energizes on its own. Cortisol, adrenalin rise, and you can feel this. In an evolutionary context this makes sense: I'm hungry, I'd better increase my efforts to go find food, my energy level rises.

The beauty of combining fasting's energy increases with total and complete rest, is that perhaps this energy can be used by the body to regenerate and repair its cumulative boo-boos. Whether rejuvenation actually happens in real life or not -- who knows -- since so little profit can be made off of people who stop eating and lay around in a hammock all day doing nothing (except reading Longecity, of course).

Energy! Boy did it give me energy, i needed less sleep, was also more agressive, happier, clearer, better coordination, vision, higher tolerance to heat (sauna) not sure about cold. Basically it made me feel 10/15 years younger. I broke the fast without hunger but i wanted to go out and party...

See what I mean? Energy from fasting goes up rather than down, which is completely counter intuitive. But different people have different results, of course, and I think it makes good logical sense to combine fasting with rest if you're interested in anti-aging (or the body's own attempts to repair itself).

If you take up water-only fasting as a hobby, and begin lengthening duration of each fast, I think we reach a point of diminishing returns. But where that point is -- depends upon who is doing the fasting and why.

[nickdino]

Yep, next time i'm doing six days, but i want to find out which things i can do to optimize autophagy, detoxification and prevent any deficiencies.

Since i can't do a waterfast every month without losing a lot of weight eventually, i will start experimenting with fmd and keto as an alternate part of the month. I have to get out if this sluggishness and back to that energy.

[BenjaminRichardson]

I have also performed a 'Do It Yourself' version of the Fasting Mimicking Diet, meaning I planned my own food in compliance with the FMD design patent using CRON-O-Meter. 

 

For the benefit of anyone else thinking of a DIY approach and as a reference for myself to re-use when I repeat FMD cycles myself I prepared several resources - 

 

Guide on How perform a Fasting Mimicking Diet including tools & tests

http://foreverfreefr...ing-diet-guide/

 

My personal results, learning points & next steps 

http://foreverfreefr...g-diet-results/

 

Google Sheets template for food planning and biomarker tracking (shared publically, make a copy of it to make edits)

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Hope it helps, and very happy to respond to questions. Pictures of my biomarker tracking protocol and  . . . food :-)

 

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Edited by BenjaminRichardson, 25 April 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[gill3362]

 

I have also performed a 'Do It Yourself' version of the Fasting Mimicking Diet, meaning I planned my own food in compliance with the FMD design patent using CRON-O-Meter. 

 

For the benefit of anyone else thinking of a DIY approach and as a reference for myself to re-use when I repeat FMD cycles myself I prepared several resources - 

 

Guide on How perform a Fasting Mimicking Diet including tools & tests

http://foreverfreefr...ing-diet-guide/

 

My personal results, learning points & next steps 

http://foreverfreefr...g-diet-results/

 

Google Sheets template for food planning and biomarker tracking (shared publically, make a copy of it to make edits)

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Hope it helps, and very happy to respond to questions. Pictures of my biomarker tracking protocol and  . . . food :-)

 

Fasting Mimicking DIet FMD Biomarkers Tracking Benefits Outcomes.PNG FMDFoodDayOne.jpg FMDFoodDayTwotoFive B.jpg

 

I hopped over to your site and read the "personal results... next steps" article. 

One thing caught my eye. You mentioned using the ketogenic diet leading up to the fasting period to increase time in ketosis. I think that is a fantastic idea and have done the opposite myself to ease into the ketogenic diet, i.e. fast for 3-4 days and then begin a keto diet to minimize the sluggishness of "keto-flu" when beginning. 

I have also noticed with friends and customers who are just beginning the journey that if one has a sugary/high carb meal the night before beginning an FMD cycle, they go into ketosis later, maybe even end of day 4. The reasons for that seem obvious.

At the risk of being too sales-y, I own a company that is shipping FMD boxes in the US. We have had great success with customers even reversing their Type-2, pre-diabetes, and general issues related to Metabolic Syndrome.

You can check it out here.

[smithx]

Thanks for sharing the information.

 

I am on day 5 of my first FMD, and I just winged it by looking up calories and staying about in range without calculating that carefully.

 

I've been weighing myself and taking morning fasting glucose. Results so far are pretty stunning:

 

Day 1 (starting day): Weight: 183.5, Fasting Glucose: 105

Day 2 : Weight: 181.5, Fasting Glucose: 85

Day 3 : Weight: 179, Fasting Glucose: 80

Day 4 : Weight: 178, Fasting Glucose: 72

 

It will be interesting to see if my fasting glucose stays lower than 105 after I resume my typical diet. Has anyone else monitored this?

 

 

 

I have also performed a 'Do It Yourself' version of the Fasting Mimicking Diet, meaning I planned my own food in compliance with the FMD design patent using CRON-O-Meter. 

 

[BenjaminRichardson]

Very welcome :-)

I have continued tracking my fasting glucose following my first FMD but I was already at an average of 72 - 80 mg/dl (4.0 - 4.4 mnol/L). I did not expect to see it change and I have not. No decrease or increase and instead, stability. For context, I eat low carb, very low refined carb, high fibre, and exercise a lot. So short of going on a keto diet there probably isn't much more I could do to decrease my fasting blood glucose.

 

However I am keen to follow the Tim Ferriss 7 day carb challenge protocol to learn more about my personal blood glucose response to my typical carb sources. 

 

 

It will be interesting to see if my fasting glucose stays lower than 105 after I resume my typical diet. Has anyone else monitored this?

 

 

 

I have also performed a 'Do It Yourself' version of the Fasting Mimicking Diet, meaning I planned my own food in compliance with the FMD design patent using CRON-O-Meter. 

 

 

[smithx]

Update:

 

- Final day: 2 hour postprandial blood glucose : 78. That's crazy low! Dinner was only about 150 calories though.

- Next morning fasting glucose: 75

- Next morning body weight 177.5

 

So to summarize:

- Body weight: 183.5 -> 177.5. A decrease of 6 lb or 3.27%

- Fasting Blood glucose 105 -> 75. A decrease of 30 or 28.6%

 

Subjective:

- I feel fairly weak, and have almost zero sex drive at the moment. So the reduction in testosterone mentioned by others is likely the case with me too.

- I have had a tingling feeling in my hands and feet, particularly noticeable when trying to sleep, which I perceive as restlessness.

- Last night (the final night) I had muscle cramps in my legs: perhaps more magnesium supplementation would be useful

 

Some good things to eat to feel full without many calories, which I used:

- kelp noodles - crunchy and great in a cold noodle salad

- shirataki noodles (kojak) also very low calorie and good hot or cold

- eating a head of romaine lettuce for lunch, with some hot sauce or other low-calorie condiment

 

 

 

 

[mccoy]

SmithX, congratulations for having completed your first FMD.

My glucose measurements resulted in steady, or slightly increased BG thorughout the FMD. I was starting from values of about 80 mg/dl though. The fact that BG increased a little during the FMD is maybe due to homeostatic mechanisms such as liver-released glycogen. Cannot find the data right now. It was the latest and 3rd FMD I completed.

[smithx]

Thanks mccoy

 

One more update:

- Evening of the day following FMD, during which day I overate (and got reflux because it was way too much) and drank a lot of wine: Postprandial Glucose 102, Body weight still 177.5

- The next morning (today): Fasting Glucose 92. Still better than the 105 prior to the FMD.

 

One possibly related or unrelated thing I noticed; going up stairs today I got winded and my heart was racing. My normal resting heart rate is about 52, but this morning it was 78. Blood pressure was down: 111/78 (without medication) usual, with telmisartan is about 128/92.

 

Question:

- I'm considering rapamycin. Does anyone have a considered opinion on whether it would be complementary or just duplicative since both are presumably targeting MTOR.

 

 

Edited by smithx, 13 June 2017 - 04:29 AM.

[mccoy]

 

Question:

- I'm considering rapamycin. Does anyone have a considered opinion on whether it would be complementary or just duplicative since both are presumably targeting MTOR.

 

there is an ongoing discussion in the CRsociety forum on Rapamycin and potential synergistic effects from CR, after the Villa-cuesta et al., 2014 study on drosophila. The relevant part is from post #11, you may want to read the whole thread though if you have intention to use Rapa. There is also a thread in this forum with self-hacking reports. The reading of Dr. Allan Green's site is a must. My belief is that CR and Rapa are synergistic, a belief supported by the cited article. But the details may be complex.

 

 

https://www.crsociet...cin/#entry22313

Edited by mccoy, 13 June 2017 - 07:48 AM.