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Should those with the Traveler's gene have international rights?

travelers

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10 replies to this topic

#1 YOLF

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 03:04 AM


So there are many Travelers (this is a gene I discovered in my genome) and we always want to travel and move about and I get alot of that "go" feeling... But I stay in one place cuz I don't really want to stay in alot of places long enough to get citizenship. I just want to experience life there as a citizen would. Tourism strikes me as the same anywhere you go and you only meet other tourists :)

 

Should Travellers have some kind of limited, nonvoting citizenship status in supporting countries through an international law? 

 

Here's what I'd expect as limited citizen:

non-voter

Elligibility for healthcare etc

Tax ID number

Employment rights

No need for Visa application, just proof of identity and Travelers gene and being legally compliant

 

Anything else?


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#2 nowayout

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 03:06 PM

Denying rights to people based on their genetics or ancestry (which is the same thing) is a terrible idea.  It has been tried throughout history and gave us slavery, racism, awful eugenics programs, white supremacy movements and colonization, persecution of migrants who look different, denial of civil and human rights to minorities of all types, wars without end, suppression of the rights of women, and innumerable genocides.  

 

If you want open borders, that is a great idea that you can lobby for with your government, but only if it is for everyone, not a genetically or economically privileged few.  It should apply equally to the Afghani, Somali, or Latinoamerican migrant who wants to make a life in your current town as you want it to apply to you. 


Edited by nowayout, 01 August 2015 - 03:18 PM.

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#3 Duchykins

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 06:08 AM

Is this even a serious thread?



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#4 YOLF

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 08:30 AM

Denying rights to people based on their genetics or ancestry (which is the same thing) is a terrible idea.  It has been tried throughout history and gave us slavery, racism, awful eugenics programs, white supremacy movements and colonization, persecution of migrants who look different, denial of civil and human rights to minorities of all types, wars without end, suppression of the rights of women, and innumerable genocides.  

 

If you want open borders, that is a great idea that you can lobby for with your government, but only if it is for everyone, not a genetically or economically privileged few.  It should apply equally to the Afghani, Somali, or Latinoamerican migrant who wants to make a life in your current town as you want it to apply to you. 

 

Yeah, I support that kind of idea too. I just felt like exploring something traveler specific.

 

We should all be able to choose our nationality at least once without making ~10 year commitments to make it permanent. But who wants to settle just anywhere? You need to try everything or at least alot of things before you pick a home. Your first choice might be an ignorant one that you later regret. Travelers also have a history of moving freely among many countries of Europe. Maybe something like "EU citizenship" for other parts of the world or participating networks of countries rather than making it mostly geographic. I think UN coordinated citizenship exchange programs could be of benefit in this situation too and might stop the abuse or genocide of social or political minorities and get more skilled workers to less developed countries. Making it a universal argument is d

 

Travelers should be a specific case though. Traveler citizenship would be limited whereas everyone else using "freedom of immigration" would probably be staying longer and wanting a more complete citizenship or citizenship opportunity. When jobs aren't important anymore and everything is done by robots, immigration won't be as big of an issue I think.



#5 YOLF

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:08 AM

Is this even a serious thread?

 

Yeah, travelers are a variety of diaspora populations who are much more likely to move from one country to another or move frequently. There's a big world out there that needs to be explored. A Traveler's motivation to move is quite different from a refugee or someone seeking more opportunity. Travelers just get bored staying in the same place and want to find somewhere new, different, or novel.

 

My guess is that longer lifespans would be enabling to many travelers and allow them to experience more places at more times. The Traveler gene or genotype and variants among different groups of Travelers is probably one of those genes that is common in our community. Travelers like to "go," and we're going to the future... sounds like a pretty interesting place with some pretty novel things we may have never heard of before :) There might even be more places on more planets to tweak our "go" feeling.  

 

It's important for our happiness and our offspring that we cultivate our genomic "culture" as much as possible to pass on more experience and genetic proficiency. I guess that's what this is really about. Have you thought about your genetic culture? Live it and it'll perfect your life IMO. What's important for your genetics? What do you need? Feel free to PM me on the subject.



#6 pamojja

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 04:37 PM

It should apply equally to the Afghani, Somali, or Latinoamerican migrant who wants to make a life in your current town as you want it to apply to you. 

 

Is this even a serious thread?

 

 

There's a big world out there that needs to be explored. ... What do you need?

 

Having been born the privilege to be born in the west, I traveled for about continuous 10 years. We already have these international rights for the most parts, because we have the money.

 

If one is from the south or east without the financial means we in the west as a majority still have, one doesn't have any rights even close to that.

 

Here in Europe we have the challenge now to accommodate as many asylum seekers we are no more used to. Society as a whole could make a huge step in also recognizing refugees for economical reasons (why starvation should be any less valid reason for asylum than the likelihood of being discriminated?). Instead this challenge increasingly gives rise to more right-wing sentiments..

 

To give to the rich even more of what the poor only could dream of would push this already far off equilibrium further off. First thing first: give at least the right of asylum and work to those really in need. And I don't think we as a society are already that evolved to accept asylum seekers because of economic reasons, if we don't want too much of a new Nazi movement.

 

Just weight what is needed more: The whim to life everywhere because of abundance (which for us is already possible) - or the right for asylum to meet really fundamental basic needs?

 

Are you really that US-centered and spoiled?



#7 Duchykins

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 05:41 PM

 

Is this even a serious thread?

 

Yeah, travelers are a variety of diaspora populations who are much more likely to move from one country to another or move frequently. There's a big world out there that needs to be explored. A Traveler's motivation to move is quite different from a refugee or someone seeking more opportunity. Travelers just get bored staying in the same place and want to find somewhere new, different, or novel.

 

My guess is that longer lifespans would be enabling to many travelers and allow them to experience more places at more times. The Traveler gene or genotype and variants among different groups of Travelers is probably one of those genes that is common in our community. Travelers like to "go," and we're going to the future... sounds like a pretty interesting place with some pretty novel things we may have never heard of before :) There might even be more places on more planets to tweak our "go" feeling.  

 

It's important for our happiness and our offspring that we cultivate our genomic "culture" as much as possible to pass on more experience and genetic proficiency. I guess that's what this is really about. Have you thought about your genetic culture? Live it and it'll perfect your life IMO. What's important for your genetics? What do you need? Feel free to PM me on the subject.

 

 

Alright, I get all that.  My main thing was the separate set of rights based on genetics.  It clashes with my humanistic, egalitarian tendencies.  Besides, we are not always slaves to our genetics.  I would prefer a new code that would raise the whole floor for everyone instead of one group of people.

 

What if we had different sets of rights for women and men that were founded on genetics?  What happens to the people that are genetically one sex but instead identify with the other sex?  

 

I'm not saying that its what might happen if we allow such a precedent to be set since that would just be a slippery slope argument, but I mean this as an analogy.



#8 nowayout

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:56 PM

I was born in the global South and immigrated to the U.S. as an adult.  Having seen it from both sides, you Westerners already HAVE these privileges of free travel in all the ways that matter.  You have no idea how privileged you are already over the rest of the world.  Imagine having to apply months before, getting all kinds of official and bank guarantees, etc., and first undertaking expensive and often long travels to consulates in your own country to go for hostile inteviews conducted by assholes, for every Western country whose border you are going to cross in a 10-day vacation.   And that was for the privileged among us; people of limited means have no chance.  Meanwhile western Europeans and Americans, rich or not, can pretty much jump on a plane to the great majority of countries in the world without a care and be let in with no questions asked.


Edited by nowayout, 02 August 2015 - 09:57 PM.

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#9 Duchykins

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 10:04 PM

I was born in the global South and immigrated to the U.S. as an adult.  Having seen it from both sides, you Westerners already HAVE these privileges of free travel in all the ways that matter.  You have no idea how privileged you are already over the rest of the world.  Imagine having to apply months before, getting all kinds of official and bank guarantees, etc., and first undertaking expensive and often long travels to consulates in your own country to go for hostile inteviews conducted by assholes, for every Western country whose border you are going to cross in a 10-day vacation.   And that was for the privileged among us; people of limited means have no chance.  Meanwhile western Europeans and Americans, rich or not, can pretty much jump on a plane to the great majority of countries in the world without a care and be let in with no questions asked.

 

You have valid points.



#10 YOLF

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 10:47 AM

It's not freedom of travel that I'm talking about... sure we can travel, but we're just tourists. 

 

I do also agree that we should take more refugees or build  more sustainable infrastructure in places where people are at risk of starvation or otherwise, but this is a separate matter as I've said.



#11 nowayout

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 01:43 PM

It's not freedom of travel that I'm talking about... sure we can travel, but we're just tourists.

 

It is normally straightforward for Westerners to go live in the majority of destination countries if they can find a job or enter some domestic partner arrangement, and it is easy for them to travel and stay there for a while and network until they do, which the rest of humanity cannot do without great hardship. 

 

Even if you don't plan on working, you can easily cross borders, no questions asked, and stay on for extended times on a in many countries and "go native" for a while.  Even a summer in a destination country doesn't have to be undertaken as a "tourist."  With proper planning (or even without) you can have quite an authentic experience. 

 

I don't know where you are from, but in large countries or free-movement zones like the U.S., Canada, and the European Union you can even move internally to experience very different ways of life.  Seattle, L.A., Santa Fé, and New Orleans are all totally different within the U.S., and so are London, Amsterdam, and Barcelona within the E.U., or Toronto and Vancouver in Canada. 


Edited by nowayout, 03 August 2015 - 01:54 PM.





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