15 replies to this topic

[Kaleido]

Hi guys,

i found this product from a high quality local sports supplement supplier here in South AFrica called eVOX.

What do you think?
Their product is a Nitric Oxide "Pump" enhancer - but looking at the ingredients some of them ar quite nootropic in nature.

 

here is a summary from the website  Link: http://www.evox.co.z...title=evox-shop

3DT2 is the perfect blend of Nutrients to deliver the ultimate pre workout pump, stamina and mental focus.

EVOX 3DT2 Contains: 
Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate is a part of Glutaric acid. It is well known to increase blood flow and delivery of nutrients to muscle.

 

Beta Alanine is a non-essential amino acid which is converted into carnosine. Carnosine increases strength, stamina and muscle development.

 

Caffeine is a compound found in coffee beans. It is a powerful central nervous system stimulant which enhances mood and increases concentration. 

 

Creatine Monohydrate is a natural compound found in the body. Creatine increases ATP and energy levels. 

 

Schizandrol A is a component found in food. It is a powerful central nervous system stimulant which enhances mood and increases concentration. 

 

Agmatine Sulfate the ultimate Nitric Oxide enhancer 

 

N-Methyltyramine HCL, extreme energy boosting and mind blowing mental focus. 

 

 

Now, i havent hearf of N- Methyltyramine, i am especially not sure of its "Mind Blowing Mental focus" benefits but all of the others seem to be pretty decent chems on their own.

Im mostly interested in the Agmatine - as an NMDA agonist and a2 Alpha receptor activity for potential anxiety and ADD relief (my 2 strongest negative characteristics)
but the way i see it, is an addition of a healthy dose of caffeine, some Schizandra extract, and creatine could be good for general energy and focus?

There are quite a few of these NITRIC OXIDE/ MUSCLE pump supplements that have good looking ingredients.. 

I mean its not going to make your muscles flare up unless u pumping iron right? but anyway, i am doing some light weight training anyway, so i guess i could use it for that as well.
Overall, its fairly cheap at about $12 US equivalent....


 

 

[Junk Master]

IMO Agmatine works well for lifters over 40.  Great pumps.  Superior to Creatine Mono...which I also take in small doses.

 

Have no idea about long term effects and don't use Agmatine more than a couple cycles every year.  Also don't know how well it would work in younger lifters.

 

Don't notice any nootropic benefits with either.  Nothing compared to even good old piracetam.

 

I'm not a fan of "kitchen sink" supplement blends and would encourage you to test each ingredient on it's on to see how you respond before you start to stack them.  Much cheaper too.

 

If you're looking for an ADHD supp or a pre-workout supp NOTHING has ever come close to the Purple Craze pre-workout powder-- then again I suspect the old formula contained some amphetamine analog (which was why it was banned...and I have no idea about the new formulation.)

 

 

[Kaleido]

Cool thanks 

I cant seem to get ahold of Agmatine on its own here, so thats why i was interested in these pump stacks.

i reckon its cheap enough to try, so ill maybe buy a bottle and then see the effects. if anything, its a nice hefty dose of CAfffeine and creatine, both proven nootropic compounds! so it cant hurt

 

[Junk Master]

Personally, I think Creatine is an underrated Nootropic, and as long as you tolerate it well, it's pretty tough to beat good old caffeine.

[Kaleido]

Ive never actually tried it as a Noot... what doses do you take Junkmaster?

[Junk Master]

Very small amounts compared to bodybuilding.  About 2 grams per day.

[Area-1255]

I have my doubts about Agmatine as a nitric oxide booster.

Agmatine Suppresses Nitric Oxide Production and Attenuates Hypoxic-Ischemic Brain Injury in Neonatal Rats

 

 

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2003 Dec;1009:20-9.

Regulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase and agmatine synthesis in macrophages and astrocytes.

Regunathan S1, Piletz JE.

Author information

 

Abstract

Agmatine is a novel endogenous guanido amine synthesized from arginine by arginine decarboxylase. Among several biologic effects, the ability of agmatine to protect against ischemic injury and chronic neuropathic pain is particularly interesting. Because inflammation is a common contributor to these conditions, we sought to determine if agmatine acts by decreasing the production of proinflammatory molecules such as nitric oxide and if agmatine synthesis is regulated by inflammatory stimuli. We tested whether agmatine affects astroglial and macrophage (RAW 264.7 cell line) nitric oxide synthase-2 (NOS-2) expression. NOS-2 was induced in these cells by incubation with lipopolysaccharide (LPS) plus three cytokines for astrocytes and LPS alone for RAW 264.7 cells in the presence and absence of varying concentrations of agmatine. NOS-2 activity was assessed after 24 hours by nitrite accumulation in the culture media. Agmatine dose-dependently inhibited nitrite accumulation, and shorter incubation with agmatine (1 and 4 hours) also caused significant reduction. Agmatine decreased the expression of NOS-2 activity and NOS-2 protein as determined by immunoblot analysis. Incubation of astrocytes and RAW 264.7 cells with LPS/cytokines for 2 hours resulted in an increase in arginine decarboxylase (ADC) activity, whereas longer-term incubation (12-17 hours) lowered ADC activity. Agmatine levels in these cells are increased after 6-hour incubation with LPS/cytokines. These results show that agmatine inhibits the production of nitric oxide by decreasing the activity of NOS-2 in macrophages and astroglial cells by decreasing the levels of NOS-2 protein. These findings provide a molecular basis for the neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory actions of agmatine.

PMID:   15028566   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1999 Feb;288(2):544-9.

Agmatine selectively blocks the N-methyl-D-aspartate subclass of glutamate receptor channels in rat hippocampal neurons.

Yang XC1, Reis DJ.

Author information

 

Abstract

We investigated in rat hippocampus neurons whether 4-(aminobutyl)guanidine (agmatine), formed by decarboxylation of L-arginine by arginine decarboxylase and metabolized to urea and putrescine, can modulate the function of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor channels. In cultured hippocampal neurons studied by whole-cell patch clamp, extracellular-applied agmatine produced a voltage- and concentration-dependent block of NMDA but not alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid nor kainate currents. Analysis of the voltage dependence of the block suggests that agmatine binds at a site located within the NMDA channel pore with a dissociation constant of 952 microM at 0 mV and an electric distance of 0.62. We also tested effects of several agmatine analogs. Arcaine (1,4-butyldiguanidine) also produced a similar voltage-dependent block of the NMDA current, whereas putrescine (1, 4-butyldiamine) had little effect, suggesting that the guanidine group of agmatine is the active moiety when blocking the NMDA channel. Moreover, spermine (an endogenous polyamine) potentiated the NMDA current even in the presence of blocker agmatine or arcaine, suggesting that the guanidine-containing compounds agmatine and arcaine interact with the NMDA channel at a binding site different from that of spermine. Our results indicate that in hippocampal neurons agmatine selectively modulates the NMDA subclass of glutamate receptor channels mediated by the interaction between the guanidine group and the channel pore. The results support other data that agmatine may function as an endogenous neurotransmitter/neuromodulator in brain.

PMID:   9918557   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]    Free full text

 

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[Junk Master]

Interesting:

 

"...These findings provide a molecular basis for the neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory actions of agmatine."

 

 

 

[Junk Master]

I also wonder if there's a Nitric Oxide boosting "rebound" effect similar to Niacin's rebound effect at 2 hours.

[Area-1255]

I also wonder if there's a Nitric Oxide boosting "rebound" effect similar to Niacin's rebound effect at 2 hours.

NOS isn't toxic unless by it's secondary metabolites; in other words, nitric oxide is fine - very healthy and necessary for brain, heart, spleen, kidneys etc...but it's when it  CONVERTS into PEROXYNITRATE that it can start oxidizing cells. 

 

Nitric Oxide and Peroxynitrite in Health and Disease

Nitric oxide, superoxide, and peroxynitrite: the good, the bad, and the ugly

[Junk Master]

Thanks for the info, Area-1255.  I always enjoy your input and references.  I was just speculating what Agmatine gives ME such good pumps-- on par with beginning Creatine, or MK77 (though, as mentioned before, nothing like synthetic hormones.

 

Again, is it something to do with my age (over 45)?  Or do rats just not spend enough time in the gym?

 

I've been at this long enough I'd like to think I know my body well enough to discern placebo v. real response.

 

Plus, I can always tell an unusually good pump when my cephalic vein starts to bulge and twist at the top of a rep.

[message]

Is it good to be on creatine long term i.e. years at low doses 5g/day?  I wonder if it is one of those things you cycle on and off

[Area-1255]

Is it good to be on creatine long term i.e. years at low doses 5g/day?  I wonder if it is one of those things you cycle on and off

Creatine is sort of part methionine; it has the ability to affect methylation; so I recommend you supplement with L-Histidine and folate to prevent overmethylation whilst using Creatine. Other than that, there are no issues with long-term creatine use. Although, DHT rises on it - so those who wish to avoid hair loss; namely older guys might want to moderate the dosage!

[Junk Master]

Bodybuilders cycle it on and off because they go through cutting/bulking periods and when they are cutting they don't like to hold excess water.  Creatine will make you hold water, which along with the increase in DHT (I believe rather mild) is the primary reason for the strength gains experienced on it.  This is especially true if you take large (10g) doses with some form of simple carb.  

 

This is pretty "old school" thinking though.  Now most experienced athletes don't "load" it, and I don't bother to cycle it.  Again, I take very small doses, sometimes sub-2 g.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kaleido]

What kind of nootropic benefits would one expect from Creatine? Like increased thought clarity/ clearheadedness, or memory, motivation etc?
 

[Area-1255]

What kind of nootropic benefits would one expect from Creatine? Like increased thought clarity/ clearheadedness, or memory, motivation etc?
 

Motivation and sociability. A little clarity boost, perhaps.