207 replies to this topic

[Rib Jig]

> scientists...it is they that have the right to say who lives or dies

 

Wake up!  Wrong. So very wrong.         

Money rules above all else.

For most of recorded human history.

It buys safety, security, & eventually, near-immortality!!!!

 

Better rearrange your mixed up priorities if you haven't got enough to cover cryogenics!

Money can't buy happiness???  Oh yes it can...

(if one is unhappy in knowing they can't participate in cryonics, etc.)

Money isn't everything?  Oh yes it is...

(its a ticket to revived life & then near-immortality)

 

Ain't got enough money?  Better stop whining about scientists, baby-making, blah blah blah!!!

 

There is NOTHING more important than SAVE SAVE SAVING

a. get 2nd, even 3rd job

b. stop smoking or gaming your immortality away

c. eat canned beans, macaroni & cheese

d. google "dumpster diving"

e. cut living expenses in half & then in half again

 

Rather complain than take immediate action to boost your savings???

Well then, enjoy your life.

Because you've got only one short life to live.

Your first-legal-death-only limited life.

Kiss centuries of living goodbye...

Edited by Rib Jig, 04 October 2015 - 05:19 PM.

[ceridwen]

Dumpster diving will give you food poisoning

[ceridwen]

Rib jig what you are saying is why Alcor "paitients" will be able to own "patients" from the Cryonics Institute who have no means of putting their money in store for their reanimation. That is if the whole massive gamble works at all.

[shadowhawk]

Rib Jig, what are you talking about?  No use trying to answer that.  Count my vote for letting everyone interested having access to life.  Help us from letting the control freaks get in control of something so basic as life.

[A941]

To return to the question if Immortality should be granted to everyone:

NO! Not to those who fought to please the gods and reach a better afterlife while making life difficult for other people, and/or ending it.

 

 

In this case everyone should win ;-)

 

[A941]

a. get 2nd, even 3rd job

 

c. eat canned beans, macaroni & cheese

 

d. google "dumpster diving"

 

Stress, bad, unhealthy and not quiet diverse food will cut your life expectancy in half too.

 

[shadowhawk]

So if you believe in God, no life for you?  And you are the decider!  You lost my vote.  On the other hand i vote for your continued existence and that things will be just how you wish except for your wish for believers..

[Rib Jig]

Its sad.

So sad.

Some people will always hold their hand out,

demanding their needs & wants be subsidized.

Free cryonics??!!

Why stop there?

Free cars, especially Rolls Royces.

Free designer clothing.

Free plastic surgery.

Free life extension.

Free gourmet food.

Free luxury housing.

Etc. etc. etc.

News flash:

ITS NOT HAPPENING.

 

Better start thinking outside the box tomorrow -- your next life may be in this life's dumpsters:

http://www.wired.com...ng-matt-malone/

 

 

[A941]

So if you believe in God, no life for you?  And you are the decider!  You lost my vote.  On the other hand i vote for your continued existence and that things will be just how you wish except for your wish for believers..

 

You seem to be unable to read an entire sentence ;-)

Please read it again, I said:

Not to those who fought to please the gods and reach a better afterlife while making life difficult for other people, and/or ending it.

 

 

If you are a "normal" believer who wants to pray, study the bible /the book of Mormon etc. celebrate christmas, Chanukka, meet in Church elect a High-Priest and so on, I have no problems with you at all, I will protect your right to do so, BUT I have Problems with you if you are forcing me/others to celebrate X, wear a beard, hide under a ghost-costume, stop to use my brain, or if you kill, mutilate people because they dont believe in your god/s, dare to leave your faith, be homosexuals, be atheists, worship other gods,...

 

So I would be against the eternal existence of those guys fighting for ISIS, the Taliban, Boko Haram and other disgusting Barbarians.

These are Harddrives you cant reform(at) ever.

[A941]

@Rig Jig

 

What I ment was that you should do things which will benefit you without slowly killing you, the same way you emntioned quiting smoking.

 

Dont dive into a Dumpster, plant your own food, cause you cant controll what else is going into that dumpster.

People have suffered from food poisoning, and infections. It is not worth destroying vital organs.

buy the food which has reached the expiration date inside the store for half the price and cut more costs somewhere else.

Try to work in one place fulltime (i know this is hard in the US since they didnt adjust wages to inflation etc.) and not in three where Stress will harm your heart and cause mental problems.

 

It doesnt help if you save a million $, but die because rotten food fucks up your allready weakened heart.

 

 

 

[A941]

Hey look, I received a Dislike for the "Death to Jihadis"-Post.

 

I just want to know if it is because I wish for the death of human beings who i deem unable to not become anything else but a menace to human civilization, OR because i dare to think Islam may be a bit fucked up?

 

be honest with me.

[shadowhawk]

Wow you dislike Islam.  Any body else you want to cut off from life?  Actually I am not a big fan either but pardon me if I note, you kind of sound like them.  Even bad guys have rights such as a right to life and a fair trial.  What do beards or clothes have to do with it, the issue of life that is? Do you not like people with beards and clothes you think look funny?  I am going out and shave right now.

[A941]

Wow you dislike Islam.  Any body else you want to cut off from life?  Actually I am not a big fan either but pardon me if I note, you kind of sound like them.  Even bad guys have rights such as a right to life and a fair trial.  What do beards or clothes have to do with it, the issue of life that is? Do you not like people with beards and clothes you think look funny?  I am going out and shave right now.

 

As I mentioned before, but you might not have read it yet, I dont have anything against the "normal" believer who just minds his or her own bussines, I dont have problems with them praying trying to convert people and doing all the other religious stuff as far as it does not include infringing on the rights of others it is their right to do so.

But I have problems if these religious activities include killing other people for absolutely no good reason at all, or in lesser cases forcing them to wear beards, burkhas etc.

 

Dont get me wrong, Iam against the Death sentence in allmost all cases because i think it is something human civilization should have grown out of by now, I understand that after some time someone who made an error may be released again and be able to rejoin society. I also think that some people are mentally ill and it is justified to keep them away from society because they can not be cured (by now), In such a case it is not even their wrong, BUT if you kill dozens or hunderds of innocent people to please your freakin god, not because you are ill but because you choose to do so in order to reach eternal life with tons of booze, and orgys as reward for you inhuman behaviour, then I think you should be burried alive. Not as some sort of Death sentence but as Pest control meassure.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Be practical, people. Use the rule, that will maintain the society.

 

Prevent from immortality only those, who will do the overpopulation - the uncontrollably multiplying.

 

Another good option is eventually to prevent from immortality recidivistic murderers.

 

Let the religeous people and people from all races to be immortal.

[Rib Jig]

> Prevent from immortality only those, who will do the overpopulation - the uncontrollably multiplying

 

Prevent them NOW!!!

Prevent them from getting doctor care.

Prevent them from getting into hospitals.

Prevent them from getting food & water.

Prevent them from getting shelter.

 

THIS POST SATIRES PREVIOUS POST PROMOTING CLASS SEGREGATION, PASTY WHITE BABY-HATING IMMORTAL RACE        

 

Money, moolah, dinero buys immortality.

It always has, it always will...

Gene therapy --> life extension --> further advances --> eventual near-immortality!!!

Free gene therapy?  Not likely...

 

> prevent from immortality...murderers...Let the religeous people...be immortal.

 

Hello??  Acts "in name of" religions = greatest all-time killer of humanity...

Check.  Checkmate.

Edited by Rib Jig, 05 October 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[ceridwen]

Terraforming other planets should take care of the multiplication problems. I don't know what recidivism is but I do know that many people turn to a life of crime due to physical imbalances and those should of course be considered other reasons poverty,the unfairness of life and the people who condemn the criminals do not know how they would have behaved had life dealt them a similar hand. They might have behaved even worse! To condemn anyone to death is in fact to make the conmdemer as bad as the condemed for it is the same crime as the defendant has committed themselves. I think that criminals should be cured and given a chance to start again. Psychopaths should be watched however to make sure no one else is harmed. Any cultural prevention of any person getting immortality if desired would be an oppressive act. Cultures should be run along compassionate lines ideally where everyone is helping each other in altruistic collaboration. Punishment is usually vengeful and says as much about the punisher's tendancy not to comply with such an ideal society as the criminal's in fact in some cases it may even be criminal or supportive of criminals and therefore not to be indulged in. Let's be friendly and helpful to everyone for the betterment of humanity.

[Danail Bulgaria]

A recidivist criminal is a criminal, that does the same crime after going out of the jail.

 

Terraforming is futurism. It is a scientific belief, that hasn't been done yet. People have not made a terraformed planet so far, suitable for living. It will take time. It won't work if the immortality becomes true after lets say 20-30 years.

No children for those who choose immortality is still the best possible option so far.

At least for the beginning until the other solutions form.

 

My posts don't promote "CLASS SEGREGATION, PASTY WHITE BABY-HATING IMMORTAL RACE"

It is only how you interpret them, @Rib Jig

 

The money are only the means of getting something. If you have the money, and this something does not exist, you still can't purchase it. Better be the one, who invents the gene therapy in your example, and can use it over and over on himself. If you make it cheap enough, more people will be able to become immortal.

 

At this moment I don't think, that all religeous people murderes. Only the extremists, I think.

[shadowhawk]

 

Wow you dislike Islam.  Any body else you want to cut off from life?  Actually I am not a big fan either but pardon me if I note, you kind of sound like them.  Even bad guys have rights such as a right to life and a fair trial.  What do beards or clothes have to do with it, the issue of life that is? Do you not like people with beards and clothes you think look funny?  I am going out and shave right now.

 

As I mentioned before, but you might not have read it yet, I dont have anything against the "normal" believer who just minds his or her own bussines, I dont have problems with them praying trying to convert people and doing all the other religious stuff as far as it does not include infringing on the rights of others it is their right to do so.

But I have problems if these religious activities include killing other people for absolutely no good reason at all, or in lesser cases forcing them to wear beards, burkhas etc.

 

Dont get me wrong, Iam against the Death sentence in allmost all cases because i think it is something human civilization should have grown out of by now, I understand that after some time someone who made an error may be released again and be able to rejoin society. I also think that some people are mentally ill and it is justified to keep them away from society because they can not be cured (by now), In such a case it is not even their wrong, BUT if you kill dozens or hunderds of innocent people to please your freakin god, not because you are ill but because you choose to do so in order to reach eternal life with tons of booze, and orgys as reward for you inhuman behaviour, then I think you should be burried alive. Not as some sort of Death sentence but as Pest control meassure.

 

I assume the "normal believer," is Islam from your answer but they don't drink.  So they don't fit your description.  trying to figure out who you insist dies is beyond me and getting close to being off topic.  On top of that if there ever is such a concoction which could give us indefinite life, you have not addressed the political question.  Are all these people just going to stand there while you pass out the magic life elixir? I think not, your role could get you in serious trouble which no elixir could save you from.

[shadowhawk]

> Prevent from immortality only those, who will do the overpopulation - the uncontrollably multiplying

 

Prevent them NOW!!!

Prevent them from getting doctor care.

Prevent them from getting into hospitals.

Prevent them from getting food & water.

Prevent them from getting shelter.

 

THIS POST SATIRES PREVIOUS POST PROMOTING CLASS SEGREGATION, PASTY WHITE BABY-HATING IMMORTAL RACE        

 

Money, moolah, dinero buys immortality.

It always has, it always will...

Gene therapy --> life extension --> further advances --> eventual near-immortality!!!

Free gene therapy?  Not likely...

 

> prevent from immortality...murderers...Let the religeous people...be immortal.

 

Hello??  Acts "in name of" religions = greatest all-time killer of humanity...

Check.  Checkmate.

If you think religion is the all time killer you don't have a clue.  However soon it will be those who cut us off from the source of indefinite life, if there was such a thing.

[YOLF]

Its sad.

So sad.

Some people will always hold their hand out,

demanding their needs & wants be subsidized.

Free cryonics??!!

Why stop there?

Free cars, especially Rolls Royces.

Free designer clothing.

Free plastic surgery.

Free life extension.

Free gourmet food.

Free luxury housing.

Etc. etc. etc.

News flash:

ITS NOT HAPPENING.

 

Better start thinking outside the box tomorrow -- your next life may be in this life's dumpsters:

http://www.wired.com...ng-matt-malone/

 

Why work? Machines can give us everything and at that point working becomes a waste of time. Maybe you want to do some kind of public work to keep yourself occupied, fine, do that and whatever it is that you want to get paid for, you could get paid for through a subsidized basic income, or maybe you get more b/c you're giving up your time... It really doesn't take any more money to make a Rolls Royce than any other equally featured car... In fact, if a robot is making it... it's gunna cost far less so you can have two or three of them... 

 

If it's not happening, there is corruption, or you need to move somewhere where it will happen unless you want to waste your time working while others in the world are simply served by their machines and your work doesn't amount to much more than fulfilling your expectation of needing to work.

 

But, yeah, do what you have to in the mean time. maybe you'll wake up and it'll still be a capitalist society and you will need to work... but how long with that last? Won't you outlast it?

[YOLF]

Hey look, I received a Dislike for the "Death to Jihadis"-Post.

 

I just want to know if it is because I wish for the death of human beings who i deem unable to not become anything else but a menace to human civilization, OR because i dare to think Islam may be a bit fucked up?

 

be honest with me.

We should never condone killing anyone, it's inappropriate for this forum. Death is Wrong. It's a children's book on Amazon.

 

We also have "forever" to work with, so there are no unachievable goals. We shouldn't allow ourselves to stoop into that kind of thinking. If you don't have the solution yet, just say you don't have any ideas yet.

[YOLF]

 

> Prevent from immortality only those, who will do the overpopulation - the uncontrollably multiplying

 

Prevent them NOW!!!

Prevent them from getting doctor care.

Prevent them from getting into hospitals.

Prevent them from getting food & water.

Prevent them from getting shelter.

 

THIS POST SATIRES PREVIOUS POST PROMOTING CLASS SEGREGATION, PASTY WHITE BABY-HATING IMMORTAL RACE        

 

Money, moolah, dinero buys immortality.

It always has, it always will...

Gene therapy --> life extension --> further advances --> eventual near-immortality!!!

Free gene therapy?  Not likely...

 

> prevent from immortality...murderers...Let the religeous people...be immortal.

 

Hello??  Acts "in name of" religions = greatest all-time killer of humanity...

Check.  Checkmate.

If you think religion is the all time killer you don't have a clue.  However soon it will be those who cut us off from the source of indefinite life, if there was such a thing.

 

Aging is the all time killer. Wars, which often involve competing ideology that originates among the faithful is probably number 2, or second to driving deaths, or deaths from smoking or ______________ disease or maybe more than one of these... I don't really know the figures.

[Rib Jig]

> Aging is the all time killer.

 

Misuse of "killer".

Aging is all time cause of death??

But is it if majority of human race did NOT die of old age????

 

> Why work? Machines can give us everything

 

Hello??  In 2015????  In what country do machines give everyone everything?!!!

Some here-and-now reality please!!!

Is this a science fiction thread???

[shadowhawk]

We won't need humans at all.  We will be superseded by machines.  There are too many problems with humans.  All we are is bug food which thinks itself important. 

[Rib Jig]

> If you think religion is the all time killer...

 

Get real & get on Google:

~1.2 BILLION killed in last 100 years alone...

genocides, purges, religion vs. religion, religion vs. anti-religion, etc.

(culture & religion intertwined, nearly inseparable, IMO)

ETC ETC ETC

 

Better get real about your ticket to immortality, too.

Its almost certainly going to be via cryonics, then gene therapy.

Both come as result of scientific advances, not science fiction.

Scientific advances come from research.

Research comes from MONETARY INVESTMENTS!!!!

BILLIONS & BILLIONS OF DOLLARS-EUROS-PESOS, whatever...

Those investors want their money back & more.

That's why they invest, nothing evil about that.

Ergo cryonics & gene therapy are & will stay (almost certainly) EXPENSIVE services!!!!!!!!!!

If you haven't got enough moolah now for ticket to immortality,

better get an attitude adjustment ASAP & make saving your HIGHEST priority.

Or else...no immortality for you...

 

And you best save enough for state-of-the-art services,

not low end cheaper sloppy risky doomed-to-fully-or-partially-fail-in-outcome services!!!!!

Edited by Rib Jig, 06 October 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[A941]

 

Hey look, I received a Dislike for the "Death to Jihadis"-Post.

 

I just want to know if it is because I wish for the death of human beings who i deem unable to not become anything else but a menace to human civilization, OR because i dare to think Islam may be a bit fucked up?

 

be honest with me.

We should never condone killing anyone, it's inappropriate for this forum. Death is Wrong. It's a children's book on Amazon.

 

We also have "forever" to work with, so there are no unachievable goals. We shouldn't allow ourselves to stoop into that kind of thinking. If you don't have the solution yet, just say you don't have any ideas yet.

 

 

They are Death incarnate, and I only condone such action cause doing nothing will cause even more Death, and containment is not working, this sickness is spreading.

The only other Idea to solve such problems would be brainwashing them, cause just believeing they have changed after  therapy is nothing I would like to go with, but this would not solve anything just give us something to feel better.

But this Discussion may be of no ise since we are not going to decide who is getting lifeextension, some Idiots with stupid beliefs and to much power will do it for us ;-)

 

It wouldnt solve anything
 

[Rib Jig]

> we are not going to decide who is getting lifeextension, some Idiots with stupid beliefs and to much power will do it for us

 

DEAD wrong. 

 

YOU decide.

Whether you have enough $$$

to cover state-of-the-art cryonics

is up to you.  If you have enough

years & no untimely death, no

death legally requiring autopsy...

If you don't have the $$$ now,

WELL THEN -- GET ON IT ASAP!!!!

 

Scientist-haters, productivity-haters, do-nothing advocates...

This is who should be BANNED from immortality...

 

Stop imagining you're going to be some kind of hero after cryonics revivial!!!

(only if you're one of the first 50 or so, to be revived, & only for a short time, IMO)

You're going to be auto-health-monitored, put in minimal public housing, given a year's supply of food tablets...

No vacations on Mars or Venus, no virtual reality time travel resorts -- that requires $$$-equivalent as always...

You'll be about as popular as an escaped North Korean in South Korea...

Edited by Rib Jig, 06 October 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

How about you, @Rib Jig  ?

 

Do you have enough $$$ to become immortal?

 

[shadowhawk]

> If you think religion is the all time killer...

 

Get real & get on Google:

~1.2 BILLION killed in last 100 years alone...

genocides, purges, religion vs. religion, religion vs. anti-religion, etc.

(culture & religion intertwined, nearly inseparable, IMO)

ETC ETC ETC

 

Better get real about your ticket to immortality, too.

Its almost certainly going to be via cryonics, then gene therapy.

Both come as result of scientific advances, not science fiction.

Scientific advances come from research.

Research comes from MONETARY INVESTMENTS!!!!

BILLIONS & BILLIONS OF DOLLARS-EUROS-PESOS, whatever...

Those investors want their money back & more.

That's why they invest, nothing evil about that.

Ergo cryonics & gene therapy are & will stay (almost certainly) EXPENSIVE services!!!!!!!!!!

If you haven't got enough moolah now for ticket to immortality,

better get an attitude adjustment ASAP & make saving your HIGHEST priority.

Or else...no immortality for you...

 

And you best save enough for state-of-the-art services,

not low end cheaper sloppy risky doomed-to-fully-or-partially-fail-in-outcome services!!!!!

Yes, why don't you do some research on who the greatest killers are.  I suggest for a starter R.J. Rummels works on the subject as a good place to start.  https://en.wikipedia.../Rudolph_Rummel   RJ has spent decades working on this question and has many books and web pages to reference.  The greatest killings have been done in the last century and the greatest number killed have been Christians.

[YOLF]

 

 

> Prevent from immortality only those, who will do the overpopulation - the uncontrollably multiplying

 

Prevent them NOW!!!

Prevent them from getting doctor care.

Prevent them from getting into hospitals.

Prevent them from getting food & water.

Prevent them from getting shelter.

 

THIS POST SATIRES PREVIOUS POST PROMOTING CLASS SEGREGATION, PASTY WHITE BABY-HATING IMMORTAL RACE        

 

Money, moolah, dinero buys immortality.

It always has, it always will...

Gene therapy --> life extension --> further advances --> eventual near-immortality!!!

Free gene therapy?  Not likely...

 

> prevent from immortality...murderers...Let the religeous people...be immortal.

 

Hello??  Acts "in name of" religions = greatest all-time killer of humanity...

Check.  Checkmate.

If you think religion is the all time killer you don't have a clue.  However soon it will be those who cut us off from the source of indefinite life, if there was such a thing.

 

Aging is the all time killer. Wars, which often involve competing ideology that originates among the faithful is probably number 2, or second to driving deaths, or deaths from smoking or ______________ disease or maybe more than one of these... I don't really know the figures.

 

 

Looks like I should have read the full post before replying. 

 

On the topic of interfering with uncontrolled procreation, the argument still isn't over population... The problem is that people don't live long enough and fulfilling enough lives to be able to raise children adequately enough. Otherwise all people would be satisfied. Even those who are genetically predisposed to the highest degree of selflessness aren't able to raise perfect children, though they may do better than most and achieve top scores, I'm certain better can be done. Assuming that the present attempt, if it is successful will do little more than homogenize human genetics overtime, it's akin to genocide inat only a select "kind" will survive and the existence of the rest of the human race is devalued. Our movement should be all about recognizing the value of human life such that we're all willing to live longer to produce better outcomes for everyone. 

 

Even if those least predisposed to adequately raising children take 10k years to the 1k years of those who are most predisposed to adequately raising children, whose to say that their children shouldn't exist? Perhaps they need only to have 10 once they finally do procreate to maintain the relative size of their population so the other doesn't say they can't have any at all. In any case, having children should be controlled so that no one starves, suffers, etc. So only as many people should be able to procreate as we have resources to provide for. If we can stop dying and greatly slow the rate of procreation for just a few decades, we'll have plenty of time to have perfect nutrition and health for everyone rather than relatively or simply adequate nutrition by today's standards. One's experience of life as most of us here know, is greatly improved by good nutrition and supplementation, regardless of age. It's all about raising the bar in the way that the rising tide is said to raise all ships (or spaceships as may be the case ). An additional point is that the way things are going, the window of healthy reproduction is shrinking for most and creating more of a need to deal with disease than would be necessary if there were no pressures to reproduce within a finite window.

 

We should never be the downers, we have all the time in the universe to get things right and find promising solutions for the future. Never let yourself be shortsighted lest you rush headlong into the trap of the present's deathism. These are things that simply hold you back, answers they've created for you to repeat to help you learn that their way is right. In order to escape them, you have to show that you can do better, then they will either follow, or hijack our ideas for their own. Both are acceptable, as long as we are free to live without aging so long as it pleases us.

Edited by YOLF, 06 October 2015 - 09:42 PM.