Posted 14 September 2015 - 02:42 PM
Well, it's not on your list but theoretically it's C60/OO. That's also the case in my personal experience, of course that's only judged by improvement in my endurance capacity.
I'd say CoQ10 and or Ubiquinol (which I don't think justifies the price increase...IMO) is also relatively effective; but, the subtle increase in capacity becomes less noticeable over time thus making the bang for your buck factor less attractive.
Even though I've used it extensively and in varying doses, I have no idea if Methylene Blue does anything for endurance or not. It SEEMS to, but the perceived improvement is nothing compared to say, caffeine in a non coffee or tea drinker. It's just such a perfect placebo, with the beautiful swirl of blue and all, lol, it's tough to say.
Taurine plays well with caffeine AND low dose aspirin.
Never had much luck with niacinamide except for high doses seeming to improve my circulation over time.
T3 will definitely jack your energy through the roof, especially if you are overtrained.
Ribose, PQQ, R-ALA, and Carnosine all fall into the no bang for your buck IMO.
Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:05 AM
Why isn't piracetam mentioned? Isn't that the mother of all mitochondrial enhancers?
Then second I would say Methylene blue.
Both are mitochondrial enhancers by clinical proof. And I think both are just that, not much more. Therefore if someone rated them as 'placebo', this person likely just has nothing to improve on his mitochondrial level.
Remember that people like Isochroma (and me), suffer from some sort of chronic fatigue syndrom. Such a state, often involves 'underworking' mitochondria and for those people, I think, these two mentioned mitochondrial enhancers are the way to go. In their case and maybe only in their case, both sublements definitely work.
Unfortunately methylene blue will have side effects on the immune system in the long run, as prolonged consumption significant lowers B-Cells in your system. This is particulary bad when it comes to virus diseases. (Especially bad, since many chronic fatigue syndroms seems to be triggered from viruses like Epstein Barr)
Finally I would like to add that the "boost" a person with not properly working mitochondria gets from such a pure enhancer is not like the boost from a stimulating drug, like caffeine or amphetamine. It is not triggered by a chatecholamine nor serotonin. For me its more like a clear head. Nothing more. Nothing less. Saying its a boost seams therefore to be misleading. I just feel more rejuvenated and clear.
But as I said, if chronic fatigue is not your problem. Don't waste your money on pure mitochondrial enhancers, IMHO.
Edited by RobertPaulsen, 21 November 2015 - 04:04 AM.
Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:13 AM
Why isn't piracetam mentioned? Isn't that the mother of all mitochondrial enhancers?
Then second I would say Methylene blue.
It's good to get piracetam on the list. I don't think I'd call it the mother of all mitochondrial enhancers-- that would probably be c60oo, but piracetam does appear to make mitochondria work better. I'm less impressed by MB, unless it's at doses higher than most people here are using. There is a lot of research supporting MB at reasonably high doses (like 70-100mg), but nothing I'm aware of that supports it as a mitochondrial enhancer at the micro doses popular around here. I think it is one of the most placebogenic compounds known to man.
It's good that you mention CFS. This is one of many conditions that mitochondrial enhancers may help. I hope that the CFS community is getting informed about that.
Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:25 AM
With c60oo you mean c60 olive oil? Thought I know what's out there, but that is indeed new to me. Wow, how could it have slipped my attention. Is there a comprehensive thread here about that supplement?
Do you say, that c60oo is the "prototypical" mitochondrial enhancer, because of its potency or because it has the longest, best known history?
I mentioned piracetam as such, because it is so well researched and has such a long history + is prescription for CFS in some countries.
...
And by the way, in the MB thread I mentioned a test to show the power, even 100 micro gram MB has on MAO-A. That test can be done by everyone at home, to judge for himself.
Edited by RobertPaulsen, 22 November 2015 - 03:28 AM.
Posted 22 November 2015 - 06:07 AM
With c60oo you mean c60 olive oil? Thought I know what's out there, but that is indeed new to me. Wow, how could it have slipped my attention. Is there a comprehensive thread here about that supplement?
Do you say, that c60oo is the "prototypical" mitochondrial enhancer, because of its potency or because it has the longest, best known history?
I mentioned piracetam as such, because it is so well researched and has such a long history + is prescription for CFS in some countries.
And by the way, in the MB thread I mentioned a test to show the power, even 100 micro gram MB has on MAO-A. That test can be done by everyone at home, to judge for himself.
Yes, c60oo is c60 olive oil. We have a whole forum dedicated to it. You probably missed it because it's located under the nanotechnology forum, which isn't the first place I'd look... There are a lot of posts there going back to mid 2012. There are a lot of false alarms and various scary issues that are brought up but eventually turn out to be nothing, so if you see something alarming, read ahead and it will probably be resolved or debunked further in the thread.
C60oo is an example of a mitochondrial antioxidant. The reason I bring it up is because it's potent, inexpensive (can be made at home) and easy to get. It also has very good pharmacokinetics. Another mitochondrial antioxidant that is now readily available is MitoQ. It is more expensive. Some people like it better than c60; others like c60oo better. There's far more published work on MitoQ than on c60oo.
I don't understand how 100 ug MB could have an effect on MAO-A, given the IC50 for that interaction. If something is happening, it must be through a different mechanism. I didn't see your post about the test; could you post a link to it? (click the post number on the right hand side of the page; that will give a direct link to the post)
Posted 22 November 2015 - 06:40 AM
Ok. Then I have a lot to read in the forum you mentioned. Great!
MB link is here: http://www.longecity...ue/#entry740006
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