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Nicotinamide Riboside [Curated]

nicotinamide riboside nicotinamide nad boosting charles brenner david sinclair leonard guarente niagen niacinamide nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#1861 Oakman

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:15 PM

Seemingly, Sinclair didn't want his work to show which precursor was superior in producing the result he was studying or he would have compared the two precursors.  Which begs the question, "Was he simply looking for results to justify MNM?" Only Sinclair knows that answer, but certainly there is work that supports the premise that MNM is not superior to NR in producing NAD+. As to whether it would have produced superior results in this particular study, sadly, that is an open question, as NR and MNM are not the same molecule.

 

http://alivebynature...st-nad-booster/ CONCLUSION

This longterm NMN study indicates the importance of NAD+ decrease as a common trigger of age-associated physiological decline, and the possibility that supplementation to increase NAD+ can ameliorate some of this decline. Some questions remain about the NAD+ boosting effect of NMN. Even with continuous supplementation it does not appear to significantly raise blood plasma circulation NAD+ levels.

This quote below from the Trammel PHD work on NR and NAD+ proposes that NR is more effective than NMN at boosting NAD+

These points seem to indicate that NR is the most attractive NAD+ booster at present.  However, NR and NMK are two distinct NAD+ precursors and additional research may find that effective interventions for age-associated physiological decline include some combination of NMN and NR.

NR contributed to the intracellular NAD metabolome more rapidly than NMN and increased NAD+ by more than 2 fold after 24 hours, indicating NR is kinetically superior to NMN.

Expanding on that last quote is chapter 4 in this study by Trammell that deals directly with contrasting MNM and NR
Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions

4.6 Discussion
NR (32, 37, 50, 52, 54-56) and NMN (34, 123-125) both counter metabolic and age related disorders. NR and NMN are studied as separate pharmacological entities, both augmenting NAD+ through separate pathways but converging due to the action of NAD+ in sirtuin activities. NR is either phosphorylated to NMN through the NRK pathway (7) or phosphorylized to Nam (126). However, NR increases five-fold after NMN injection (34) and other studies indicate NMN depends upon CD38, CD73, and NRK (35, 121, 127) for its utilization and suggest that NMN is metabolized to Nam and NR extracellularly. These studies did not eliminate the possibility that extracellular dephosphorylation is non-rate limiting and that NMN, though biochemically acting as NR, behaves identically as NR. We used LC-MS/MS and stable isotope labeled NR and NMN to measure their kinetic effect on the NAD metabolome. NR contributed to the intracellular NAD metabolome more rapidly than NMN and increased NAD+ by more than 2 fold after 24 hours, indicating NR is kinetically superior to NMN. In line with the 62 intracellular findings, extracellular NMN rapidly and dramatically decreased over 24 hours as extracellular NR rose. No labeled Nam was detected, suggesting hydrolysis, presumably as catalyzed by CD38, was not the primary route of extracellular NMN metabolism in these cells. The relationship of the two labeled compounds was seemingly linear and agreed with genetic evidence that NMN is dephosphorylated before it is salvaged. NR and NMN are not identical, interchangeable entities. The implication of these data to a biological setting remain to be shown in vivo. The possibility remains that NMN is an endogenous circulating NAD+ precursor as has been suggested (17). An extracellular Nampt (eNampt) is enzymatically active and could produce a constant amount of NMN from Nam. In the same report, NMN was reported to circulate at as high as 80 µM, leading some to suggest that NMN is a type of NR carrier that is dephosphorylated to supply NR around the body (2). However, the ability of eNampt to produce NMN appears unlikely given undetectable levels of its co-substrate 5-phosphribosyl-1- pyrrophosphate (18). Further, our group and others have failed to detect NMN in plasma (Chapter 5)(18). These discordant results may be due to the employment of HPLC versus LCMS. HPLC is technically more quantitative as the detector is not at the mercy of gas phase reactions such as mass spectrometers are, but HPLC UV-vis methods are incapable of providing selectivity for the metabolite of interest (Chapter 1.1-1.2). This is a very prescient example of the need for improved and accepted analytical procedures for the study of the NAD metabolome.

Ultimately, we are all left to ponder these subtleties, until someone compares them (and others) for various effects under similar conditions, disregarding their personal preferences, or financial/political constraints.

 


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#1862 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:20 PM


I only included fraudulent since I have read that charge against Sinclair over the past decade but with no specifics given. Some have argued his early resveratrol experiment on mice was not replicable, and I have had a problem with him contradicting himself  a few times over the years about resveratrol. But while annoyed at the time, I though those were pretty minor in the larger scheme of things. 

 

Sinclair may well be using NMN to base a drug on to compete against a drug that might be made based on NR, but I'm not sure, and like you think this is win - win. That was mean to be my point to a couple of other posts - there could easily be an economic value to having competing drugs, and I think this is just the beginning as Sinclair told NPR Science Friday in 2013. He said then that "a lot of people are trying" to produce an anti-aging drug and didn't assume it was him who was in the lead.

 

Out of pure curiosity could you mention some examples of him contradicting himself? I believe you, I am just curious.


 



#1863 bluemoon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 09:15 PM

Out of pure curiosity could you mention some examples of him contradicting himself? I believe you, I am just curious.

 

 

 

 

 

I was going to add that but thought the post was long enough.

 

* Around 2009 he said resveratrol is perfectly safe and explained he had checked his blood work weekly for several months. Yet an article in BusinessWeek that had many errors quoted him as saying something like "Tens of thousands of people are conducting experiments on themselves (taking resveratrol) when we don't yet know the long term effects." That isn't a direct contradiction but was discouraging people from taking it based on that quote.  

 

* When Depik Das was under fire for scientific misconduct, Sinclair told the NY Times that he didn't know who he was and then later admitted that he did but said he wasn't a major resveratrol researcher and that he will be more careful when speaking to the press.

 

* During his very good 2014 talk in Australia there is one part where he says resveratrol looks like it works better for those in shape and in a different part of the joint talk he says it probably works better if one is metobolically out of wack.

 

* Not a contradiction, but also during that presentation in Sydney, that is up on youtube at around 1 hr and 45 min, he clearly states: "We have better technology now [than resveratrol]... " and also said something about the NR research path will be the new way to go. Yet in a 2015 interview with the WaPo, Sinclair said that he was taking 1,000 mg of resveratrol at breakfast and declined to mention he was also taking NR or NMN. While not a contradiction, the omission confused me since I had watched the Sydney presentation.

 

 

None of this is a big deal to me at all but at the time confusing.     


Edited by bluemoon, 26 March 2017 - 09:22 PM.

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#1864 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:20 PM


I was going to add that but thought the post was long enough.

 

* Around 2009 he said resveratrol is perfectly safe and explained he had checked his blood work weekly for several months. Yet an article in BusinessWeek that had many errors quoted him as saying something like "Tens of thousands of people are conducting experiments on themselves (taking resveratrol) when we don't yet know the long term effects." That isn't a direct contradiction but was discouraging people from taking it based on that quote.  

 

* When Depik Das was under fire for scientific misconduct, Sinclair told the NY Times that he didn't know who he was and then later admitted that he did but said he wasn't a major resveratrol researcher and that he will be more careful when speaking to the press.

 

* During his very good 2014 talk in Australia there is one part where he says resveratrol looks like it works better for those in shape and in a different part of the joint talk he says it probably works better if one is metobolically out of wack.

 

* Not a contradiction, but also during that presentation in Sydney, that is up on youtube at around 1 hr and 45 min, he clearly states: "We have better technology now [than resveratrol]... " and also said something about the NR research path will be the new way to go. Yet in a 2015 interview with the WaPo, Sinclair said that he was taking 1,000 mg of resveratrol at breakfast and declined to mention he was also taking NR or NMN. While not a contradiction, the omission confused me since I had watched the Sydney presentation.

 

 

None of this is a big deal to me at all but at the time confusing.     

 

I do think it's a big deal. It paints him (accurately) as a crook, a deceptive guy who is out to line his pockets and has no interest in helping people. I doubt he even takes these things at all. 

 


Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 26 March 2017 - 10:20 PM.

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#1865 markkhicks

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:58 PM

I think that this is getting ridiculous that you are dissing a very bright man who has obviously made some amazing discoveries. I you think he is such a bad guy quit taking NR and other supplements and see how it goes for you. Maybe you can discover something yourself. Let's get this thing back inside with its real purpose of assessing the impact of NR instead of derogatory speculative comments about a person you have never met or talked to.


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#1866 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:30 PM

I think that this is getting ridiculous that you are dissing a very bright man who has obviously made some amazing discoveries. I you think he is such a bad guy quit taking NR and other supplements and see how it goes for you. Maybe you can discover something yourself. Let's get this thing back inside with its real purpose of assessing the impact of NR instead of derogatory speculative comments about a person you have never met or talked to.


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You're right. I should be glad that others are testing the products he's marketing so I don't have to. If they prove useless then I've saved a lot of money and if they prove to be anti-aging then I will benefit from it.

 


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#1867 soulprogrammer

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 03:11 AM

IF all humans are like you, then perhaps the world will not have any invention and development at all. Everyone is waiting for someone to do it....

 

 



#1868 soulprogrammer

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:27 AM

more info about Sinclair's :

 

The controversy surrounding Sinclair’s studies are partially based on whether or not the  NAD-dependent gene Sirtuin-1 (SIRT1) is activated by a small family of sirtuins developed by Sirtris. These drugs include SRT1460, SRT1720, SRT2183, and resveratrol, and are reported to regulate transcription of the genes involved with aging, apoptosis, and metabolism. Studies from Sinclair have shown that these drugs have considerable positive effects not only with aging, but also with type 2 diabetes. However, a study published in the Journal of Biological Chemistry concluded that these drugs are not direct activators of SIRT1, which would render Sinclair’s work fundamentally inaccurate.

 

My question is resveratrol and SRT1460, SRT1720, SRT2183 are these drugs activators of SIRT1 or not? Another group concluded no, but what is the final say? Which group is correct? Sinclair's group or the other group? No conclusion?? It certainly that cannot be both group also correct right?


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#1869 MikeDC

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4099343/
This clinical trial showed pterostilbene increased LDL and lowered blood pressure. There are two studies that showed Pterostilbene inhibited telemerase and sirt1.

Based on all the information I believe Pterostilbene does not have life extension effect. Long term consumption of Pterostilbene could be risky.
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#1870 Nate-2004

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 03:14 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4099343/
This clinical trial showed pterostilbene increased LDL and lowered blood pressure. There are two studies that showed Pterostilbene inhibited telemerase and sirt1.

Based on all the information I believe Pterostilbene does not have life extension effect. Long term consumption of Pterostilbene could be risky.

 

I don't think pterostilbene does anything either. There's not enough evidence for any conclusions to be drawn about it. There's plenty for resveratrol but not pterostilbene. I stopped taking it till further notice. I do eat a ton of blueberries though, always in my smoothies, a variation on #2 by Rhonda Patrick.


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#1871 bluemoon

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 11:06 PM

 

 

I don't think pterostilbene does anything either. There's not enough evidence for any conclusions to be drawn about it. There's plenty for resveratrol but not pterostilbene. I stopped taking it till further notice. I do eat a ton of blueberries though, always in my smoothies, a variation on #2 by Rhonda Patrick.

 

 

I don't think it is clear yet. When I heard Charles Brenner talk last December, toward the beginning of the presentation he said resveratrol was worthless and the audience of 50 laughed when he put up a picture of someone throwing resveratrol into a garbage can.

 

Toward the end he said that he didn't think pterostilbine did anything but added, "We'll see."

 

Somebody filmed his talk, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere. Naturally, much of the information was the same as in his interview with Bryan_S although he went into more detail about different aspects in both the interview and the talk. 



#1872 Nate-2004

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 11:10 PM

 

 

 

I don't think pterostilbene does anything either. There's not enough evidence for any conclusions to be drawn about it. There's plenty for resveratrol but not pterostilbene. I stopped taking it till further notice. I do eat a ton of blueberries though, always in my smoothies, a variation on #2 by Rhonda Patrick.

 

 

I don't think it is clear yet. When I heard Charles Brenner talk last December, toward the beginning of the presentation he said resveratrol was worthless and the audience of 50 laughed when he put up a picture of someone throwing resveratrol into a garbage can.

 

Toward the end he said that he didn't think pterostilbine did anything but added, "We'll see."

 

Somebody filmed his talk, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere. Naturally, much of the information was the same as in his interview with Bryan_S although he went into more detail about different aspects in both the interview and the talk. 

 

 

Well what I meant was there's not enough research, either that or not enough published, if there were any negative results it wasn't published, unfortunately. 



#1873 soulprogrammer

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:18 AM

@Bryan_S, Could you write a current update summary of all related research about NR/NMN in an article that is easy to read and comprehend? This thread has too many info, almost impossible to read all info.


Edited by soulprogrammer, 29 March 2017 - 11:19 AM.


#1874 bluemoon

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:37 PM

@Bryan_S, Could you write a current update summary of all related research about NR/NMN in an article that is easy to read and comprehend? This thread has too many info, almost impossible to read all info.

 

It looks like much more will be known in June or July when Chromadex said it will release the results of its 140 person trial of those taking 100 mg, 300 mg, 1000 mg and a placebo for eight weeks.  Elysium will also release the full results of its own eight week 120 person study of 60 to 80 year olds taking 250 mg and 500 mg of NR (with 50 mg and 100mg of pterorstilbine, respectively) sometime this year as well.  


Edited by bluemoon, 29 March 2017 - 01:38 PM.

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#1875 MikeDC

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:42 PM

Chromadex dose design is not very good. 100 mg is too low.
250 500 1000 would have been better
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#1876 bluemoon

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 02:54 PM

Chromadex dose design is not very good. 100 mg is too low.
250 500 1000 would have been better

 

Chromadex went up to 1000 mg and down to 100mg, which is valuable since Elysium didn't study that.

 

The two studies differ since Elysium adds pterostilbine and restricted the ages to 60 to 80 years old but that is the age range results are likely to be seen. Still, the Chromadex results will be a great general guide to what dose of NR to take, if any, and with the Elysium study will then have a good idea of glucose and lipid level changes among others at 100 mg, 250 mg, 300 mg, 500 mg and 1000 mg, which covers the entire range.  


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#1877 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:15 PM

I'd like to see more independent studies done. There is too much bias involved with companies who have a stake in positive results.


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#1878 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:15 PM


It looks like much more will be known in June or July when Chromadex said it will release the results of its 140 person trial of those taking 100 mg, 300 mg, 1000 mg and a placebo for eight weeks.  Elysium will also release the full results of its own eight week 120 person study of 60 to 80 year olds taking 250 mg and 500 mg of NR (with 50 mg and 100mg of pterorstilbine, respectively) sometime this year as well.  

 

I have a hunch that the results will be "significant" just like taking statins "significantly" reduces your chance of heart disease (hint, it doesn't).

 


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#1879 MikeDC

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:22 PM


It looks like much more will be known in June or July when Chromadex said it will release the results of its 140 person trial of those taking 100 mg, 300 mg, 1000 mg and a placebo for eight weeks. Elysium will also release the full results of its own eight week 120 person study of 60 to 80 year olds taking 250 mg and 500 mg of NR (with 50 mg and 100mg of pterorstilbine, respectively) sometime this year as well.

I have a hunch that the results will be "significant" just like taking statins "significantly" reduces your chance of heart disease (hint, it doesn't).

I hope you will never take Niagen.
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#1880 soulprogrammer

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

Are you implying the researchers funded by Chromadex/Elysium will temper the data to make it looks positive? Don't forget these researchers who conduct the trial are well known professors grade level from well known university, not some unknown nutritionist from China/Taiwan. Do you really think they will trade their reputation for maybe just few thousands or ten of thousands of dollars? The only scenario I can see if the data is not positive, they will opt not to publish the data instead. Tempering data to make it looks positive will not happen for these renown researchers from well known university.


Edited by soulprogrammer, 29 March 2017 - 03:32 PM.

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#1881 soulprogrammer

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:30 PM

On the other hand, this trial is more interesting. The period is 2 years! Unfortunately, we have to wait until 2020 to know the result.

 

Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide and Skeletal Muscle Metabolic Phenotype (NADMet)

 

https://clinicaltria...riboside&rank=7


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#1882 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:33 PM

Are you implying the researchers funded by Chromadex/Elysium will temper the data to make it looks positive? Don't forget these researchers who conduct the trial are well known professors grade level from well known university, not some unknown nutritionist from China/Taiwan. Do you really think they will temper the data just for maybe few thousands or ten of thousands of dollars? The only scenario I can see if the data is not positive, they will opt not to publish the data instead. Tempering data to make it looks positive will not happen for these renown researchers from well known university.

 

Yes, I really think that. It happens repeatedly with Big Pharma and it will happen repeatedly with anyone who has a stake in the outcome. Until controlled trials are completed with a significant sample size and the results are replicated by unbiased sources at least once, the research isn't robust enough to claim anything about NR. 

 

They were wrong about saturated fat for years. So even then.

 

I take NR, but only out of speculative investment. It's a gamble of money at worst. 

 

I'd love to see a lot more research on known supplements that reduce inflammation as well. There is no where near enough research being done on a lot of good ones because they're not patentable and no one stands to make a giant profit off it, protected from competition.

 

I really do hope that NR turns out to be all it's purported to be, because I'm invested, not only in Chromadex stock but in the product.


Edited by Nate-2004, 29 March 2017 - 03:34 PM.


#1883 soulprogrammer

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:51 PM

"I take NR, but only out of speculative investment. It's a gamble of money at worst. "

 

1) many experiments proved that using mice as model, NR is really scientifically proven very useful medically at least for mouse. And there are accompanied sound theory to explain why it works that way (thanks to Sinclair).

 

2) small human clinical trials proved NR indeed raise NAD+ in humans. Another (small sample) human trial proved that NR has similar effect as fasting. 

 

3) many anecdotal evidences that show positive (and some negative) effects of NR here and in Amazon and other websites.

 

4) few very interesting human clinical trials are ongoing. If NR is snake oil, I believe these researchers won't even bother to spend so much resources to study NR, do note many are not funded by Chromadex. They conduct the human trials because they have confidence of the positive outcome. 

 

5) more importantly, you take NR, do you feel something different?  Do you feel the positive effect of NR? Your brain surely is telling you this is not gamble!

 

 

 

 



#1884 MikeDC

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:05 PM

I knew NR is a miracle drug two weeks after taking it. I have taken many supplements and none of them can give you results you can feel immediately. After two weeks taking NR my skin becomes very smooth and slippery.
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#1885 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:18 PM

"I take NR, but only out of speculative investment. It's a gamble of money at worst. "

 

1) many experiments proved that using mice as model, NR is really scientifically proven very useful medically at least for mouse. And there are accompanied sound theory to explain why it works that way (thanks to Sinclair).

 

2) small human clinical trials proved NR indeed raise NAD+ in humans. Another (small sample) human trial proved that NR has similar effect as fasting. 

 

3) many anecdotal evidences that show positive (and some negative) effects of NR here and in Amazon and other websites.

 

4) few very interesting human clinical trials are ongoing. If NR is snake oil, I believe these researchers won't even bother to spend so much resources to study NR, do note many are not funded by Chromadex. They conduct the human trials because they have confidence of the positive outcome. 

 

5) more importantly, you take NR, do you feel something different?  Do you feel the positive effect of NR? Your brain surely is telling you this is not gamble!

 

I never said my speculation wasn't founded in theory based on the studies so far. Feeling an effect or noticing something different isn't really convincing enough for me. The placebo effect is really quite powerful. With no controls or large sample sizes we easily fall for the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. I am very resistant to concluding anything because that fallacy is so commonly committed by self-experimenters. We have a lot of experimenters with NR reporting all kinds of things both positive and negative and no real controlled measure of collecting that data or controlling other variables in lifestyle changes.  

 

NR is probably the only supplement I take right now, other than hydrolyzed collagen, that doesn't have a considerably robust level of research backing up the benefits of taking it. Everything else I take is very well examined on at least one of the claims.


Edited by Nate-2004, 29 March 2017 - 04:23 PM.

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#1886 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:37 PM

I knew NR is a miracle drug two weeks after taking it. I have taken many supplements and none of them can give you results you can feel immediately. After two weeks taking NR my skin becomes very smooth and slippery.

Mike, why are you the only person to report that you experience wonderful effects after a very short duration of taking it? I don't see how we could make sense out of that.

 


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#1887 MikeDC

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:47 PM

I knew NR is a miracle drug two weeks after taking it. I have taken many supplements and none of them can give you results you can feel immediately. After two weeks taking NR my skin becomes very smooth and slippery.

Mike, why are you the only person to report that you experience wonderful effects after a very short duration of taking it? I don't see how we could make sense out of that.

Who said I am the only one that feels results in a very short duration? Just from the people that I introduced Niagen to there are many that saw good results within a month. One 45 year old person lost 15 lbs in 1-2 month without exercise. One person least weight with just 125mg a day. Many get shinny and smooth skin in one month.
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#1888 Gingerbread Man

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:48 PM

 

I knew NR is a miracle drug two weeks after taking it. I have taken many supplements and none of them can give you results you can feel immediately. After two weeks taking NR my skin becomes very smooth and slippery.

Mike, why are you the only person to report that you experience wonderful effects after a very short duration of taking it? I don't see how we could make sense out of that.

 

Mike is not the only one. There are many who have said the same thing. This is the curated thread, please keep this thread that way.


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#1889 Bryan_S

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 05:30 PM

@Bryan_S, Could you write a current update summary of all related research about NR/NMN in an article that is easy to read and comprehend? This thread has too many info, almost impossible to read all info.

 

I don't have the time to write a dissertation but I can make some reading recommendations. 

 

Nicotinamide riboside is uniquely and orally bioavailable in mice and humans and

 

NRK1 controls nicotinamide mononucleotide and nicotinamide riboside metabolism in mammalian cells

 

If you aren't a Nature member Dr. Brenner has posted the articles at https://brenner.lab.uiowa.edu see research reprints.

 

Then there was a recent interview https://brenner.lab....ingMedicine.pdf you can also watch the interview I did @  https://youtu.be/WItMH3PzIk4

 

As far as MNM is concerned, I like the competition in research it's producing, but NR got an NAD research head start and I think it will keep its lead. If anything the initial Sinclair contribution was from the sirtuin angle. Also, see researcher's Shin-ichiro Imai & Leonard Guarente for further sirtuin research. I think everyone's now turned their heads towards NAD repletion as the focus and how to ameliorate the effects of CD38.
nad-cd38-chart.jpg
by Juliana Camacho-Pereira, Mariana G. Tarragó, Claudia C.S. Chini, Veronica Nin, Carlos Escande, Gina M. Warner, Amrutesh S. Puranik, Renee A. Schoon, Joel M. Reid, Antonio Galina, Eduardo N. Chini'Correspondence information about the author Eduardo N. Chini
 
 
Sinclair and his team discovered you needed NAD to make sirtuin's work. Since then we've found a large laundry list of other NAD-consuming enzymes. In fact initially, most of us were very interested in the sirtuin anti-aging angle. It follows or mimics very closely with the benefits of fasting. However after Brenner's team discovered just raising NAD also stimulated the production of the anti-aging fasting sirtuin's most of us dropped resveratrol and pterostilbene because they became redundant. (I know there are still some holdouts who do both, for me it's the money)
 
Back to NMN pretty much anything we read out there about oral or injected NMN can be attributed to NR. Now to be fair, the jury is still out without a direct one to one study, but it's shaping up that way.
 
At this moment I see NR being slightly better since NMN has to be reduced to NR at the cell membrane anyway. See NRK1 controls nicotinamide mononucleotide and nicotinamide riboside metabolism in mammalian cells
 
Where is the difference? So in the back of my mind, I'd like to know which is better from a digestive/absorption/bioavailability standpoint. The simpler NR or, the larger NMN molecule. I also think both could benefit from time release just to get them past the acid gastric pH, so rates of absorption are my only real question. So unless there is some unknown cell signaling mechanism going on at the cell membrane for NMN I can't see it being any better and likely something less.
 
From the standpoint of price (NR) Nicotinamide Riboside has a trusted quality manufacturing process, and the price is coming down as the consuming audience grows.
 
(NMN) NMN nicotinamide mononucleotide hasn't been around long enough yet to enjoy a real price reduction. As far as a trusted source I only know of one reliable NMN supplier "Shinkowa Pharmaceutical." There are some Compounders trying to steal your money with substitutes, so buyer beware.
 
Most of us at Longecity have seen the Chinese seek to invade the NR market and at this point, no real NR has emerged that's been Lab tested. NMN is no different. The big difference is Chromadex is actively protecting their intellectual property. So when a Compounder from New Jersey promises you Chinese (NR) Nicotinamide Riboside at half price, Chromadex steps in buys some and sends it to a lab. They get the report, and they shut them down. So far no Chinese (NR) Nicotinamide Riboside has proven to be the real thing. On the NMN side, Shinkowa Pharmaceutical is the only real player. So naturally, the question is, "are they protecting that market?" I can't say, but I don't think so its just too small and unproven.
 
So if you want the real thing, for now, Shinkowa Pharmaceutical is the only legitimate NMN source I know about, and you can find an outlet seller of their products on Amazon. 
 
Given the above and any as of yet unproven NMN benefits over NR, I'll stick with NR until we get an indicator NMN is worth the money and can win over the NR market.
 
As always JMHO

Edited by Bryan_S, 29 March 2017 - 06:36 PM.

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#1890 Florian E.

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

Hi. I'm interested what you think about a liposomal Nicotinamide Riboside ? Good, bad ? Same effects ? Because ActiNovo plans to sell it soon. And i think i will be one of the first to buy it.   :)


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