8 replies to this topic

[iseethelight]

I started taking Diphenhydramine (benadryl ) for high histamine and allergies but I'm getting a totally different effect. It doesn't really help with the allergies but my memory has gotten considerably better when on it. I also have less anxiety and better concentration.

Is this the anti-cholinergic effect working or the antihistamine? Every source is telling me that taking Benadryl long term will destroy my memory and put me at risk of alzheimer's but I'm getting the exact opposite as of now. I'm a bit concerned about being on this for the long term. I'm only 30 and have always had verbal memory issues. My visual memory has always been excellent but I have had extremely poor verbal memory all my life. But on Benadryl, my verbal memory is considerably better. 

Edited by iseethelight, 21 October 2015 - 05:52 AM.

[gizmobrain]

You mention anxiety. Are you taking any other supplements or prescriptions?

 

Acetylcholine overload can lead to a "chatty" mind. Anxiety is a common symptom of this, and can have a large impact on memory. 

 

Its possible that the dirty anti-cholinergic effect of diphenhydramine might be "helping" you by balancing out too much choline. There are cleaner ways to accomplish this, if this happens to be the case.

[iseethelight]

You mention anxiety. Are you taking any other supplements or prescriptions?

 

Acetylcholine overload can lead to a "chatty" mind. Anxiety is a common symptom of this, and can have a large impact on memory. 

 

Its possible that the dirty anti-cholinergic effect of diphenhydramine might be "helping" you by balancing out too much choline. There are cleaner ways to accomplish this, if this happens to be the case.

 

The only things I'm taking besides benadryl are B6 and Vit D. I have a feeling it's an acetycholine overload issue because choline because high choline intake from supplements makes my memory and verbal fluency worse. What are some cleaner ways to accomplish this?

[iseethelight]

I had to stop Benadryl due to some undesirable side effects. Any other ways to decrease Ach besides just eating less high choline foods?

[gizmobrain]

I was hoping that someone else would chime in, as I do not have a lot of experience... my brain is usually under-active.

 

From my experience, Forskolin increases the rate of acetylcholine receptor desensitization and up-regulates acetylcholinesterase (AChE) expression. However, I'm not sure about using a cAMP increaser for someone prone to anxiety.

 

A lot of time, its more an imbalance of transmitters that leads to acetylcholine not being balanced by others. I'd recommend giving MrHappy's Stack thread a go through. Shy away from the choline sources and stick with Uridine and Fish oil.

[vader]

Benadryl is the grand-daddy of SSRIs. Maybe you do have some serotonin deficiency. If you are not afraid of trying new things, for a few percent of patients Prozac causes extreme effects (in a positive sense). Too bad for most other people it just causes PSSD.

[iseethelight]

I was hoping that someone else would chime in, as I do not have a lot of experience... my brain is usually under-active.

 

From my experience, Forskolin increases the rate of acetylcholine receptor desensitization and up-regulates acetylcholinesterase (AChE) expression. However, I'm not sure about using a cAMP increaser for someone prone to anxiety.

 

A lot of time, its more an imbalance of transmitters that leads to acetylcholine not being balanced by others. I'd recommend giving MrHappy's Stack thread a go through. Shy away from the choline sources and stick with Uridine and Fish oil.

 

I've thought about forskolin, the research wasn't strong enough to make me add it  and it has some side effects I'd rather not have. Fish oil makes depressed and irritated. I haven't looked into Uridine ye.

Benadryl is the grand-daddy of SSRIs. Maybe you do have some serotonin deficiency. If you are not afraid of trying new things, for a few percent of patients Prozac causes extreme effects (in a positive sense). Too bad for most other people it just causes PSSD.

It definitely had anti-depressant effects more  so than anti-histamine. I was calm and relaxed and less self aware but it also made it lazy, introverted and very passive. These sides are unacceptable to me.

I think my issue is excessive ach reducing both gaba, serotonin and dopamine. I need to find a way to control ach. Choline supplements make me angry and depressed. Serotonin precursors like 5htp make me sick(nausea, dizziness, chills) for a couple days after one dose. Tryptophan mixed with b6 or p5p has the same effect as 5htp causing the serotonin to be made in my stomach before crossing the bbb. I'm going to try a low choline high tryptophan diet and see what happens. 

Edited by iseethelight, 30 October 2015 - 06:00 AM.

[xxxxxxxx]

Acetylcholine seems to regulate REM sleep, in that it increases the #REM episodes, REM time, and REM brainwave density. More REM= less restorative slow-wave sleep. Depressed people (who have messed-up memory) have increased REM activity. This also seems to be causative, as directly depriving depressed people of REM sleep improves their depression! Most standard antidepressants, as dirty as those buggers are, all reduce REM sleep. I've seen many people on nootropic forums who screw around with cholinergics get depressed. That depression might also have something to do with acetylcholine antagonising some dopaminergic activity,which is why they give anticholinergics to Parkinson's patients (although it's not standard)

 

As user gizmodroid reported, there are cleaner anticholinergics than Benadryl (as Benadryl is mostly an antihistamine aka the opposite of nootropic and slight antidepressant Modafinil). Scopolamine ( (-)ACh, antimuscarinic) is known to have antidepressant properties. I don't know if muscarinic vs nicotinic ACh receptors have differing effects on said REM activity. 

 

However, both memory and depression are improved by upregulation of neuroplasticity factors like BDNF. Antidepressant efficacy seems to have quite a lot to do with this....HOWEVER (and this is what throws me off big-time) cholinergics UPregulate BDNF. Therefore, do anticholinergics DOWNregulate it? That would be bad...and yet...my first paragraph. 

[iseethelight]

I'm close to finding a solution with my issues. It's either excess acetylcholine or excess serotonin or both causing me issues. I respond poorly to both choline supplements and serotonin precursors. I match 95% of the symptoms for both excessive ach and 5ht. I'm starting to think I have both disorders. I think when I took benadryl, my memory was better due to its anticholinergic effect but its ssri effect turned me into a sheep with no motivation, increased anxiety and anhedonia.