• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Compounds for combatting lazyness

responsibility motivation avolition

  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#31 Sleepdealer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 144 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:33 PM

I was thinking of talking with a local private care center that I know offers it. I'll see if I go through with it. I'm doing a bit of research on cerebral blood flow as of now as it has caught my interest.

 

I tried 20 mg fasoracetam actually, but I didn't feel anything remarkable on it. I really thought something was going to happen by that dose :P It is so bitter and tastes so strong though. I had to quit Memantine by the way, as it was undicing a slight urinary incontinence, kind of leaky. I googled and it seems like calcium channel blockers can have that kind of effect. Urinary retention is also a side effect noted on Memantine, so yeah, can't take that regularly. Although, I feel almost kind of good being off it now too. Being on an NMDA inhibitor kind of blunts you even if it's only a small dose such as 2 mg. I do feel that I have less trouble with too fast speech and trouble articulating still as of today. So I don't know if it helped me with that or if it is NSI-189 doing it. Maybe both.



#32 Sleepdealer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 144 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 03 March 2016 - 08:04 PM

Okay, I feel it's time to post an update here...

 

 

I'm at the end of my education and I am on my 4 week internship. Things are unfolding as usual with me not being social and not very liked which is usually always the case at new places. I've realized some things since I made the last posts here. I've been worrying that I'm getting worse but I'm not so sure, because these traits have been with me for a long time. I've always displayed some autistic traits, like handflapping or some tics and some obsessive behaviour, but nothing severe or visible enough to catch attention to it. I have a lot of times caught interest in specific things, like certain second long sequences in music or movies or other kind of narrow interests. I have some anxiety and overall I lack interest in the outer work and I don't have much motivation to interact with people, and most of the time I turn people away or they start to perceive me as weird. I can also be kind of nit picky and when I detect an error I can become really annoyed by it and sometimes think abnormally negative of people, and that's my kind of internalized, antisocial and mean kind of side, that I try to never show anyone, that I've been trying to remedy as well. Of these things the most debilitating is the lack of interest in things and in getting anything done. I have really no interest in doing anything. I haven't cleaned for months, I don't read news papers and I don't manage to put much news on the memory anyways. The work I'm at is uninteresting, but anything else I start usually stops getting interesting or never is to begin with. For example I am good at drawing, like people or objects I see, but I never do it because I have no creative output that has to be satiated, so I can't just jump onto some graphic education like that. This has to be fixed for me to move on in life.

 

 

On Fasoracetam: I later on tried 45 mg of it. I felt a little bit of a buzz but it didn't do anything meaningful. I didn't feel any substantial motivation or drive. So that's out of the picture now.

 

On tDCS that treonsverdery brought up: I just bought a device called The Brain Driver that arrived this monday. I've been trying out the anode on the left frontal cortex and the cathode on the contralateral shoulder some times, and once bifrontally. I'm not so sure it helps that much, at least not yet. It kind of burns on the anode and I've gotten these phosphene lightning flashes in my field of vision several times and electrical zaps when the device turns off, which I've understood is quite normal, so at least I know the device works.

 

Today I found this study which interested me a lot:

A pilot study of alternative transcranial direct current stimulation electrode montages for the treatment of major depression.

 

BACKGROUND:

Typically, transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) treatments for depression have used bifrontal montages with anodal (excitatory) stimulation targeting the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC). There is limited research examining the effects of alternative electrode montages.

OBJECTIVE/HYPOTHESIS:

This pilot study aimed to examine the feasibility, tolerability and safety of two alternative electrode montages and provide preliminary data on efficacy. The montages, Fronto-Occipital (F-O) and Fronto-Cerebellar (F-C), were designed respectively to target midline brain structures and the cerebellum.

METHODS:

The anode was placed over the left supraorbital region and the cathode over the occipital and cerebellar region for the F-O and F-C montages respectively. Computational modelling was used to determine the electric fields produced in the brain regions of interest compared to a standard bifrontal montage. The two montages were evaluated in an open label study of depressed participants (N=14). Mood and neuropsychological functioning were assessed at baseline and after four weeks of tDCS.

RESULTS:

Computational modelling revealed that the novel montages resulted in greater activation in the anterior cingulate cortices and cerebellum than the bifrontal montage, while activation of the DLPFCs was higher for the bifrontal montage. After four weeks of tDCS, overall mood improvement rates of 43.8% and 15.9% were observed under the F-O and F-C conditions, respectively. No significant neuropsychological changes were found.

LIMITATIONS:

The clinical pilot was open-label, without a control condition and computational modelling was based on one healthy participant.

CONCLUSIONS:

Results found both montages safe and feasible. The F-O montage showed promising antidepressant potential.

 

I tried it out this evening without any situation to try it out on, and I can't tell what it is doing yet. I feel quite blunt tonight. But I will try it tomorrow morning before work and see how everything unfolds and I will update on it tomorrow or saturday. Have anyone else had success from some specific tDCS positioning?

 

I have also tried out a couple of new substances, PQQ, N-acetyl-cysteine, NA-R-ALA, Acetyl-l-carnitine HCL, Nigella sativa and scutellaria lateriflora, in case I would have had some mitochondrial disorder or some epileptiform activity that caused some of these symptoms. No luck there either however, except for a certain decrease in a verbal tic I usually have had where I wanted to say nonsensical obscene things in a strained funny voice. That I attribute mostly to the ALA that I have used over a longer period, however it could be a joint effort.

 

If I deem that the tDCS isn't working in alleviating any of these problems I'll just have to surrender and try to ask for help from the local healthcare, to try to get some SSRI or maybe modafinil or something to make socializing easier or get my drive going to make the days easier to go through until there's cures for these kinds of things. There's not so much to be done after that. I've burned so much money on all these things I almost get into financial trouble all the time...


Edited by Sleepdealer, 03 March 2016 - 08:13 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#33 gedanken

  • Guest
  • 22 posts
  • 0

Posted 04 March 2016 - 02:19 AM

Sorry to hear Sleepdealer. I hope everything works out.

 

I just saw your thread a few days ago when I was looking for a way to stop procrastination. I have a lot of the same patterns that you shared in this thread.

 

Keep us updated. You're helping out a ton.



#34 Sleepdealer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 144 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 04 March 2016 - 05:12 AM

Thanks gedanken. I'm doing a stimulation of right orbitofrontal cortex-ish // left occipital cortex as I write. I found out when I went out when I was going to the grocery store I had a kind of induced mild adhd state going on from the last stimulation. I put notable less thought thinking before doing stuff. It would not be for everyone, responsible thoughts are needed to function properly too. Might be good for people who are always overanalyzing things and ruminating, depressed, anxious, and avpd-kind of people. The study I linked to I also found out at the same time as this:

Scientists Discover Area of Brain Responsible for Exercise Motivation

 

Dr. Turner’s study, titled “Role of the Dorsal Medial Habenula in the Regulation of Voluntary Activity, Motor Function, Hedonic State, and Primary Reinforcement,” was published today by the Journal of Neuroscience and funded by the National Institute of Mental Health and National Institute on Drug Abuse. The study used mouse models that were genetically engineered to block signals from the dorsal medial habenula. In the first part of the study, Dr. Turner’s team collaborated with Dr. Horacio de la Iglesia, a professor in University of Washington’s Department of Biology, to show that compared to typical mice, who love to run in their exercise wheels, the genetically engineered mice were lethargic and ran far less. Turner’s genetically engineered mice also lost their preference for sweetened drinking water.

“Without a functioning dorsal medial habenula, the mice became couch potatoes,” Turner said. “They were physically capable of running but appeared unmotivated to do it.”

 

Hence, why fronto//occipital tDCS is so much more interesting than just bifrontal or so. In total, possibly potentiating firing in the important frontal parts, the cingulate, limbic and mid brain kind of parts, almost everything important for motivation and social functioning. I am at least in a slightly better mood as I write, at least for now, but that will probably change later today. xD

 

Anyway: Modulating activity in the orbitofrontal cortex changes trustees' cooperation: A transcranial direct current stimulation study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

Frontal tDCS modulates orbitofrontal reality filtering. - PubMed - NCBI



#35 Sleepdealer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 144 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 21 March 2016 - 06:36 PM

Time for another update on this. Gedanken, what have you been trying to alleviate your procrastination? Any success?

 

I've been trying TDCS almost every day now since the beginning of march. I cut my hair millimeter-short so I could try different stimulation over the parietal cortex/motor cortex and the temporal lobes, but mostly I've done anodal stimulation over the right orbitofrontal/dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and the medial prefrontal cortex. It's hard to say what it is doing exactly to be honest. I know the device works. There is some initial burning at the cathode and sometimes the anode. If I switch up from the lowest Ampere to the highest instantly there is a white flash in my head (I try to avoid doing that nowadays), and the anode sponge smells like chloride, so there is some electrolysis going on. So it's functioning alright.

 

I've been taking one capsule of fish oil, PQQ and ginkgo biloba every day with this stimulation. Initially, the ginkgo biloba has a kind of stimulating effect on me. I get slightly more chatty, and one day I actually started to feel concerned, thinking about some business stuff going on with my employers company and stuff. That day I also stimulated the medial prefrontal cortex which I saw an interesting study on recently:

 

Medial prefrontal cortex reacts to unfairness if this damages the self: a tDCS study.

 

I haven't really been able to get into that mindset with such "force" again. It was like I started to become concerned with things, like about my closest one's too. Then the effect fel like it faded out pretty quickly over about 2 days. The thing about Ginkgo is that it is a NET-inhibitor, as well as has the potential to increase dopamine and acetylcholine in the rat medial PFC. But that study was on 100-300 mg/kg. That, times 0,160, is 1,44 grams for a human. My capsules are 60 mg each. So I'm trying 3 capsules right now, and maybe 4 capsules tomorrow, to see what happens. I'm also going to look into nicotine patches soon.

 

Btw, I found this study on tDCS which gave me some hope on it recently, eventhough I'm not as enthusiastic about it at this point: TDCS replaces ECT in a Patient with Corpus Callosum Agenesis and Catatonic Schizophrenia

 

Has anyone else found some positive results in TDCS lately? Or anything else when it comes to motivation?

 

I'm thinking on trying sarcosine perhaps. Adding Sarcosine to Antipsychotic Treatment in Patients with Stable Schizophrenia Changes the Concentrations of Neuronal and Glial Metabolites in the Left Dorsolateral Prefrontal Cortex

The DLPFC is connected to motivation, and trying to nurture it further could be of essence: Dorsolateral prefrontal cortex drives mesolimbic dopaminergic regions to initiate motivated behavior. - PubMed - NCBI

 

Also, I will definately be doing a 23andme test, as soon as I get more money, to investigate the genetic status on the abundance of various receptors throughout the body, to see what could use some modifying, as well as doing a stool analysis for parasites, as parasites can influence our brains in nasty ways, even latent parasite infections. As a last thing, I'm currently also waiting for some kind of help from a care center now after I talked to my doctor again about this a week ago. I got remitted to something - I didn't understand what really. But it's more specialized in psychiatry or something I guess. And maybe I can get my hands on something dopaminergic or norepinephrine... ergic.

 

 

 

Has anyone got anything else so add to this, apart from stimulants like amp and the stuff that has already been talked about? I'm trying to make it through conversations and stuff but I can hardly stay engaged nowadays, and I find myself just staring at people or shutting down during the conversations. Sometimes I haven't listened. People is expecting me to continue but I just go silent and have no motivation, ever. It feels like it's turning pretty ugly.



#36 Kabb

  • Guest
  • 77 posts
  • 5
  • Location:UK
  • NO

Posted 23 March 2016 - 12:12 AM

Hello SleepDealer.  As I read your account and noted your symptoms, I too thought of a mitochondrial disorder which I see you looked at.  I would double check this as it is an important area and probably worth the effort of looking again even if your results come out negative.

 

In connection with a mitochondrial problem, you mentioned PQQ, n-acetylcysteine, lipoic acid, acetyl-l-carnitine and others.  However you didn't mention CoQ10 which is very effective for most, although not all, mito problems at around 400mg per day in divided doses.  Also B Complex vitamins (50 or 100 three times a day) are known to be valuable.  Some people need to take only these two and not the other you mention.

 

Associated with mitochondrial disorders are other metabolic conditions.  This is an extremely wide field with conditions blurring into one another and this is not something I can claim to be expert in.  However you may wish to look at (1) organic acidemias and (2) fatty acid oxidation disorders.  Loosely speaking, they can cause or be caused by mitochondrial disorders.  Taking l-carnitine can often help clean up some of the toxic by-products of these other conditions.  

 

Self treatment is only tinkering and, if you have access to a metabolic doctor he can run some lab tests to check these and any other metabolic conditions.

 

 

 


Edited by Kabb, 23 March 2016 - 12:14 AM.


#37 Sleepdealer

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 144 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:02 AM

Hi Kabb.

 

I have concidered CoQ10 before and for some reason I decided I was not going for it, but I don't remember why now. I only took NAC for like a week because of the taste. I couldn't continue taking it. But the other mitochondrial boosters I've taken for quite a long now without any noticable difference. I was especially thrilled about acetyl-l-carnitine because of the effects on various brain areas, but I think Ginko Biloba is one of few things to do anything at all so far. But CoQ10 is not insanely expensive, so I could concider it again, once I get an influx of money. Right now my economy is in shambles from nootropics buying and irresponsible money management, while I'm in the transition from student loans to salary again.

 

I tried a B complex half a year ago, but I only took 2 tablets before I threw it all away because I couldn't eat it. That was also because of taste and smell. The B complex is probably the worst thing I've ever tasted, then comes NAC and B1. Those aren't sustainable. I had been taking a B6, B9, B12 complex + vitamin B3 for a long while, without noticing anything though.

 

I will concider CoQ10 again though. I just found this study now: Behavioral Improvement after Chronic Administration of Coenzyme Q10 in P301S Transgenic Mice

Anything that could positively interact with the performance of the frontal lobe is a good thing.

 

Thanks Kabb



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#38 lemon_

  • Validating/Suspended
  • 200 posts
  • -16
  • Location:EU

Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:16 AM

Hi Kabb.

 

I have concidered CoQ10 before and for some reason I decided I was not going for it, but I don't remember why now. I only took NAC for like a week because of the taste. I couldn't continue taking it. But the other mitochondrial boosters I've taken for quite a long now without any noticable difference. I was especially thrilled about acetyl-l-carnitine because of the effects on various brain areas, but I think Ginko Biloba is one of few things to do anything at all so far. But CoQ10 is not insanely expensive, so I could concider it again, once I get an influx of money. Right now my economy is in shambles from nootropics buying and irresponsible money management, while I'm in the transition from student loans to salary again.

 

I tried a B complex half a year ago, but I only took 2 tablets before I threw it all away because I couldn't eat it. That was also because of taste and smell. The B complex is probably the worst thing I've ever tasted, then comes NAC and B1. Those aren't sustainable. I had been taking a B6, B9, B12 complex + vitamin B3 for a long while, without noticing anything though.

 

I will concider CoQ10 again though. I just found this study now: Behavioral Improvement after Chronic Administration of Coenzyme Q10 in P301S Transgenic Mice

Anything that could positively interact with the performance of the frontal lobe is a good thing.

 

Thanks Kabb

 

 

HI KABB

 

what did CoQ10 make you FEEl? 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: responsibility, motivation, avolition

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users