4 replies to this topic

[RB15]

Hello comrades!

As the title suggests, im having problems deciphering whether i'm having side effects from alcar or if its completely unrelated..

Background about me
Age - 33
Suffer from moderate anxiety and OCD, maybe mild depression in the past
I have been taking daily supplements for years at normal dosage ranges comprising of....
Vitamin D3
Vit K2
B complex
Multivitamin
Zinc
Magnesium
Calcium
Biotiin (added recently)
Turmeric (curcumin)

I work out in the gym doing only weights, 5 days a week, including compound exercises such as deadlifts, squats, bent over rows, and a and have been doing so for many years with no major injuries.

The reason i started taking ALCAR is because i take Finasteride for hairloss with good results and minimal side effects (slightly lower libido and weaker erections) but i read something about it possibly having negative neuroligical effects, so set out to research supplements to protect the brain, stumbled on ALCAR, and started taking it about 7 weeks ago with quite frankly amazing results, started at 800mg a day with 400mg lipoic acid, then i quickly upped the dose to 1300mg and reduced lopoic acid to 200mg.

The benefits i got from ALCAR without tolerance to this point have been (at 1300mg daily split in 2 doses)
1) increased energy in the gym
2) better sleep
3) improved mood
4) massively improved verbal recall, memory recall, and overall sharpness and wit
5) more outgoing, more assertive and charasmatic
6) more creative at work
7) increased libido and erections
8) better co-ordination with my guitar playing

Basically the best benefit has been that it has made me feel like i was as funny/witty/sharp as when i was in high school and college and i absolutely love it!

4 weeks into taking the supplement i started to experience a sore back in the morning, kinda felt like i had twisted myself into a bad sleeping position in the night, but it would get better within the hour so i put it down to something i had pulled in the gym (which i do now and again)

But then i started with a dull tension type headache about 3 weeks ago, i have had it every day, it's very mild and can come and go in the daytime, it's only on the right side of my head starting behind the ear at the base of the skull, it significantly gets better and almost disappears on the weekend when i'm relaxing and drinking, and not in the gym.

So i'm wanting to know if this is possibly related to ALCAR, or if it is more likely a back injury from the gym, or could it be anxiety induced? The reason i cite anxiety is because the first 4 weeks of supplementation i became obsessed with researching nootropics on here, coupled with panic and OCD of developing tolerance to ALCAR, literally exhausting my brain searching forums all day every day.

I have since seen my GP who knew nothing about ALCAR and told me it was a tension headache, i have had 2 sessions with a chiropractor who says its most likely coming from a back injury from the trapezius muscle and causing headaches, but she also said she can't say 100% if the ALCAR has something to do with it too.

On a side note i don't think i'll comtinue the chiropractor sessions, read alot of bad things about them and dont feel any better.

Finally i will give the reasons why i think it might and might not be the ALCAR -

Reasons for

1) i have read quite a few anecdotal reports on this forum and bodybuilding forums that people have suffered from headaches, although i'm still unable to find what kind of headaches they get (pounding, all over the head etc)

2) i know that ALCAR somehow raises acetylcholine in the brain, and that an overload can cause this symptom, yet i have very minimal choline in my diet, i don't eat eggs etc.

3) not changed anything else in my diet or routine.

Reasons against

1) the headaches always get better at the weekend, this is when i'm not in the gym and also when i'm much more relaxed and less stressed, i suppose i stop thinking about it, yet i still supplement with the ALCAR.

2) when i pinch and press trigger points in my trapezius muscle and neck muscle it triggers the headache in the exact areas.

3) suffer from anxiety, so when the headaches began i probably made things worse by worrying it was the ALCAR and that i would have to drop it.

4) back pain feels much more like an injury rather than something a supplement could bring on.

So what do you guys think? What is a typical ALCAR or acetylcholine headache like? And could they cause sports injury type back pain?

I would hate to drop the ALCAR, i may have to just reduce the dose, although just over 1000mg seems to be the sweet spot!

Sorry for the lengthy post, it's just been bothering me for weeks and is very important to me.

Regards!

[aconita]

I am taking 2500mg/day ALCAR and eating at least 4 eggs everyday plus copious amounts of fish and never had an headache in my life.

 

I am not stating that ALCAR can't be the cause in your case but it seems a bit strange, more likely you strained your back somehow (bent over rows, deadlifts and squats can do that, especially when you feel a bit too enthusiastic and maybe overdo a little), anxiety probably is not going to help either.

 

Try to relax more, don't take yourself too seriously, don't worry and be happy as much as you can (worrying about things is not going to fix them, if you can fix things just do it, if you can't worrying about it is silly and only makes it even worst), ...maybe perform chest supported rows instead of bent over for a while and check out if your deadlift and squat technique is always spot on (maybe switch to front squats for a while too), a nice deload week or two can do wonders..   

[RB15]

Great reply aconita! Thanks

You're right, i do think i need to relax, i just got over excited with the effects of ALCAR (never experienced nootropic effects) that i then started obsessing about losing them effects.

Judging by what foods are high in choline i must have very low levels of choline in my system as i gave up eating eggs about a year ago due to them causing excess wind and stomach cramps, so an overload of acetylcholine seems unlikely from moderate supplementation of ALCAR for less than 2 months.

The Chiropractor was unable to say what exercise may have caused it, but i do believe it was either deadlifts or some kind of bent over row as they have made the back more painful in the days after training, it was just the headache that worried me, but to know that back / neck injuries can commonly cause headaches puts my mind at ease a little!

Cheers!

[SearchHorizon]

Probably too late for my post - but I have a lot of experience with it. Over the years, I stopped taking it, however. 

 

As for your headaches, yes, ALCAR is famous for inducing headaches. Acetyl-l-carnitine increases acetyl-choline production in your brain. This typically results in choline depletion, which means you need to consume 1:1 ratio of choline with long term ALCAR.

 

Before you go out and purchase different forms of choline, one has to look at the bigger picture. Cholinergic substances are excitatory in nature. This is true for your nerve cells as well. This effect is clearly energizing (as evidenced by mice experiments), but over time, this tends to take its toll. Since workout sessions require exceptional bursts of energy, its use during workout tends to increase output/improve performance (sometimes too much for your muscles). What this means isthat you'd need to keep dosages relatively low (e.g., 100 mg), and not at levels where you can actually feel its effects.

 

For your workouts, I'd stick with something with shorter half-life, such as caffeine or another stimulant.

[Dorian Grey]

If eggs don't agree with you, perhaps some lecithin might be in order.  A very benign supplement with little down side risk and many upside benefits.  

 

I've become a super-fan of PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine); brand names PhosChol or Essentiale Forte.  Give them a google and check them out.  

 

Simple lecithin might also be worth a test run.  Simple Inositol is a WONDER supp for anxiety, by the way.  Also very benign, with little down side risk.  

 

Best of Luck as you work to resolve this.