• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

- - - - -

Problems with Borage Oil

skin hormones brain mental nutritional excess plants seed fatty evening primrose oil

  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Funiture2_*

  • Lurker
  • 0

Posted 04 February 2016 - 03:48 AM


After experiencing worse anxiety with Fish Oil, I'm beginning to suspect that Evening Primrose Oil and Borage Oil are not so harmless.

 

High doses of Borage Oil (with Sunflower Lecithin for absorption) are really effective for acne. I've been taking about 1 gram GLA from Borage Oil on and off for the past two years, which is just one method I have of tackling acne.

 

However, since I've changed to taking it more regularly, there have been certain symptoms which I need to pinpoint.

My mind finds it difficult to stay focused on one point. Especially in class, too much stimuli can be overwhelming. I've been feeling irritable and restless as well. When I'm in a conversation, I'm not really listening to what the other person is saying but preformulating what I'm going to say next, so I end up interrupting them. I'd describe it as a state of jumpiness, but otherwise, I feel great. (I posted this in a few Sarcosine threads recently because I'm so unsure whats causing what. I'm sorry if all these factors complicate things)

 

Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA) metabolizes into DGLA and then into Arachidonic Acid (AA) which could lead to excess inflammation, but I don't know where to go from there.

 

 

Scary:

https://umm.edu/heal...alinolenic-acid

"DO NOT take omega-6 fatty acids if you have a seizure disorder. Several reports describe seizures in people taking EPO. Some of these seizures developed in people with a previous seizure disorder, or in people taking epoin combination with anesthetics."

http://www.wincheste...rticle?id=38390

"Early reports suggested the possibility that the supplement gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) might worsen temporal lobe epilepsy. 66 However, there has been no later confirmation of this."

 

 

Also, I'm well aware that Borage Oil may contain harmful pyrrolizidine alkaloids though I do try to buy reputable brands which avoid this problem.

 

 

 

 

Unexpected reactions to Fish Oil:

http://omcr.oxfordjo...2015/3/244.full

"On both nights, the patient reported nighttime awakening similar to the previous episodes, followed by daytime agitation. Since halting the fish oil supplements, the anxiety and insomnia have not returned and his depression remains in remission."

http://www.curezone....m.asp?i=1065417

"Yesterday I was feeling a little better, so I took a few fish oil caps - and was awake nearly all night, in a state of agitation, it was awful."

 

 


Edited by Furniture, 04 February 2016 - 03:49 AM.


#2 aconita

  • Guest
  • 1,389 posts
  • 290
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 04 February 2016 - 10:38 PM

A few considerations.

 

Everybody is on the fish oil bandwagon nowadays, I am not so sure everybody's fish oil is what it is supposed to be.

 

Lets make it clear: fish oil is not the same as good old cod liver oil.

 

The main reason why cod liver oil was beneficial has to be found in the vitamin A and D3 content since EPA/DHA content is in such tiny amounts it is unlikely it was the main actor.

 

Proper fish oil is whole different story, it is an highly refined and concentrated compound with no trace left of vitamins or much else but EPA and DHA which makes it a completely different compound from cod liver oil.

 

Supplementing fish oil, as for most supplements, should be done with a precise goal: restore balance.

 

In this case we are looking for omega 6/3 balance, unbalance is usually in favor of omega 6 therefore usually supplementing omega 3 long chain (fish oil) is considered a good choice for most, usually and most doesn't necessarily mean always and everybody.

 

In order to do its job as expected EPA/DHA ratio is very important, most fish oil on the market doesn't have a proper ratio and that might lead to weird outcomes for someone.

 

Supplementing GLA on its own is not probably a smart idea since omega 6 is already too high in most individuals (in the omega 6/3 ratio), if the overall omega fatty acids is low a combination of GLA and fish oil might work much better (balance).

 

If you don't know where you are about with your balance it is just playing with luck to supplement GLA or fish oil or both, no surprise for someone it turns out a wrong choice... even if for most does all right.

 

The fact that for someone is not a good choice doesn't mean it is a bad choice for everybody as the fact that for most is a good choice doesn't mean it has to be good for everybody.

 

 



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 Guest_Funiture2_*

  • Topic Starter
  • Lurker
  • 0

Posted 06 February 2016 - 01:05 AM

essential-fatty-acid-pathway.jpeg

 

So GLA can metabolize into Arachidonic Acid from DGLA. Arachidonic Acid is highly inflammatory plus here's this:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9014151

"We conclude that TXA2 can interact with neuronal membranes to inhibit GABA receptor function, independent of its actions on the cerebrovasculature and on glial cells"

TXA2 is a metabolite of Arachidonic Acid.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10954324

"However, another polyunsaturated fatty acid, linoleic acid, which is an essential fatty acid and an effective reductant like arachidonic acid, inhibited GABAR currents in a manner similar to arachidonic acid."

 

I want to conclude from these studies that taking too much Borage Oil can cause anxiety and restlessness but this is just one link in all the information needed. I have no idea what pathway the body prefers.


Edited by Furniture, 06 February 2016 - 01:16 AM.


#4 Never_Ending

  • Guest
  • 170 posts
  • 4
  • Location:United States

Posted 16 February 2016 - 02:26 PM

Well GLA can metabolize into other compounds but GLA itself is still important....   And EPO is safer than Borage oil .

 

Usually negative symptoms are a bad sign but just keep in mind not always sometimes when a balance is being fixed will have bad signs


  • Disagree x 1

#5 Never_Ending

  • Guest
  • 170 posts
  • 4
  • Location:United States

Posted 16 February 2016 - 02:33 PM


 

Supplementing fish oil, as for most supplements, should be done with a precise goal: restore balance.

 

In this case we are looking for omega 6/3 balance, unbalance is usually in favor of omega 6 therefore usually supplementing omega 3 long chain (fish oil) is considered a good choice for most, usually and most doesn't necessarily mean always and everybody.

 

That is true yes and many good points made :)

 

And yes it's all about having Enough omega 3s and in the right balance with 6s ... That being said unless one eats raw fish like salmon weekly in large amounts it's hard to get omega 3s intact through diet. 

 

Also I was wondering what you think of the A and D3 from Cod liver oil.....  would it be superior to vit A in other sources as it is  naturally occurring A and D .... just wondering what your thoughts on that



#6 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

  • Guest
  • 423 posts
  • 111
  • Location:France

Posted 16 February 2016 - 03:10 PM

Not processed omega 6 are very impotant and anti inflammatory actually. Long story short, I wouldnt recommend any fish / krill oil. There is shortterm effect but you need more PUFAs than the dha / epa.


  • Needs references x 1

#7 Never_Ending

  • Guest
  • 170 posts
  • 4
  • Location:United States

Posted 16 February 2016 - 04:16 PM

Not processed omega 6 are very impotant and anti inflammatory actually. Long story short, I wouldnt recommend any fish / krill oil. There is shortterm effect but you need more PUFAs than the dha / epa.

 

 

First of all epa/dha are a TYPE OF PUFA ........but we can put semantics aside.

 

Needless to say one needs more of the other fatty acids than omega 3s ....

 

the issue was that people didnt get enough omega 3s... so unless the people you would "not-recommend" fish oil to are eating raw fatty fish that preserves epa/dha  

Other than that exception how would you justify it?.. Long story this time please

 


Edited by Never_Ending, 16 February 2016 - 04:19 PM.


#8 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

  • Guest
  • 423 posts
  • 111
  • Location:France

Posted 16 February 2016 - 09:48 PM

 

Not processed omega 6 are very impotant and anti inflammatory actually. Long story short, I wouldnt recommend any fish / krill oil. There is shortterm effect but you need more PUFAs than the dha / epa.

 

 

First of all epa/dha are a TYPE OF PUFA ........but we can put semantics aside.

 

Needless to say one needs more of the other fatty acids than omega 3s ....

 

the issue was that people didnt get enough omega 3s... so unless the people you would "not-recommend" fish oil to are eating raw fatty fish that preserves epa/dha  

Other than that exception how would you justify it?.. Long story this time please

 

 

epa and dha are NOT PUFAs: The parent fatty acid of the omega-6 series is linoleic acid, and ALA (α-Linolenic acid) the parent fatty acid of the omega-3 series; The term “parent” is used because these are the unadulterated form of the only two essential fats your body demands, as they occur in nature. The body convert only 5% of these into EFA: the EPA / DHA  (Essential Fatty Acids and are actually derivatives).
 

I know the folk your are mentioning, of course.. But its wrong. Studies explaining we have too much omega 6 does not make the differences between processed and the kind of omega 6.. I will come back to that point at the end of this post.

 

For the omega 3, fish oil epa / dha comes mainly from their consumption of seaweed / algae. But its still something not that stable (PV value) and  you can read a lot of people including me who have a bad experience using krill oil / fish oil. Its pro inflammatory in the long run.

 

Parent fatty acids are critical for artery flexibility and oxygen transport.. When you buy fish oil you dont take care any ratio, you only buy the derivativ form of omega 3 (wich does not mean that bad however, you still can have short term effect, but not the full spectrum and here is my concern).

 

Most food, including fish oil are actually bad form of omega 6 and 3, due to alteration of light, oxygen, heat.. Some use to say that any oil you buy in its form is already 'damaged" and I noticed this too even for olive oil where the PV value (peroxid value) is very high..

 

To finish: you will have to consume not processed parent omega 3 but also not processed parent oega 6 since the one people consume are most often processed.. Here is the difference.



#9 aconita

  • Guest
  • 1,389 posts
  • 290
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 16 February 2016 - 10:22 PM

Also I was wondering what you think of the A and D3 from Cod liver oil.

 

Once upon a time cod liver oil was made dumping all cods' livers in a barrel until the barrel was full or the fishing season ended, in the meantime in the barrel a fermentation process did take place, the oil separate from the mess and come to the surface of the barrel, collected that was "the" cod liver oil, rich in vitamin D and A (and not smelling that great).

 

Nowadays things are a bit different, of course.

 

The oil is extracted and purified without fermentation and in the process all vitamins D and A eliminated, once the cod liver oil is obtained most brand add synthetic vitamin D and A to it in the attempt to restore its original content.

 

There is therefore no difference whatsoever in the kind of vitamin D and A you'll get from cod liver oil and vitamin D and A supplements since they are the same "artificial" products.

 

Be aware that cod liver oil is not the same as fish oil and fish oil is quite a generic definition too, there are huge differences between fish oils on the market, the EPA/DHA ratio and content varies a lot.

 

In the traditional cod liver oil the most important factor was actually the vitamin A and D content since the EPA/DHA was far to low to play a substantial role (given the small amount of oil possible to ingest without incurring in unpleasant side effects like bathrooms runs), the fish oil in the other end is in facts an EPA/DHA supplement therefore a very different compound.

 

High EPA/DHA content and proper ratio is kind of rare and doesn't come cheap, nowadays the market is flooded with fish oil supplements but very few are really what they are supposed to be, it is quite possible for most to do more harm than good in the long run.

 

The takeaway message is that cod liver oil is not anymore a good choice and that in order to get benefits from supplementing with fish oil great care has to be employed in choosing the right product.

 

 

 

 



#10 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 17 February 2016 - 04:15 AM

OP has a very unusual symptom from unsaturated oils.  This is the first time I've heard of it.  I'd cut back on the omega 6 and eat more fatty fish, since supplemental fish oil isn't working out.

 

PUFA = PolyUnsaturated Fatty Acid.  EPA and DHA are fatty acids and they are polyunsaturated, so technically they are PUFAs.  Because they are so highly unsaturated (5 and 6 double bonds, respectively), they are sometimes called HUFAs (Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid).  Common PUFAs are dienes (linoleic) or trienes (linolenic).



#11 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

  • Guest
  • 423 posts
  • 111
  • Location:France

Posted 17 February 2016 - 09:28 AM

 

 

PUFA = PolyUnsaturated Fatty Acid.  EPA and DHA are fatty acids and they are polyunsaturated, so technically they are PUFAs.  Because they are so highly unsaturated (5 and 6 double bonds, respectively), they are sometimes called HUFAs (Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid).  Common PUFAs are dienes (linoleic) or trienes (linolenic).

 

Thank you for that because I translated it to Parent Unsaturated Fatty Acid so could have use the PUFA for long time then.. I think the short term for parent faty acid is PEO instead for "parental essential oils". So just switch PUFA by PEO in my previous posts
 



#12 Never_Ending

  • Guest
  • 170 posts
  • 4
  • Location:United States

Posted 18 February 2016 - 12:12 AM

 

 


Most food, including fish oil are actually bad form of omega 6 and 3, due to alteration of light, oxygen, heat.. Some use to say that any oil you buy in its form is already 'damaged" and I noticed this too even for olive oil where the PV value (peroxid value) is very high..

 

To finish: you will have to consume not processed parent omega 3 but also not processed parent oega 6 since the one people consume are most often processed.. Here is the difference.

 

 

Ok so we've established now for PUFA to be poly-unsaturated fatty acid so that clears up the misunderstanding. 

But I still disagree with not-recommending fish oils... I think any damage from processing you mention is not fully damaging so there will still be some benefits. Also supplementing in flax-oils high in ALA or something like that can be done in addition to fish oils.   Sure a  certain number of people react badly to fish oil, it can still be good for others though
 


Edited by Never_Ending, 18 February 2016 - 12:17 AM.

  • Agree x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#13 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

  • Guest
  • 423 posts
  • 111
  • Location:France

Posted 18 February 2016 - 11:30 AM

 

 

 


Most food, including fish oil are actually bad form of omega 6 and 3, due to alteration of light, oxygen, heat.. Some use to say that any oil you buy in its form is already 'damaged" and I noticed this too even for olive oil where the PV value (peroxid value) is very high..

 

To finish: you will have to consume not processed parent omega 3 but also not processed parent oega 6 since the one people consume are most often processed.. Here is the difference.

 

 

Ok so we've established now for PUFA to be poly-unsaturated fatty acid so that clears up the misunderstanding. 

But I still disagree with not-recommending fish oils... I think any damage from processing you mention is not fully damaging so there will still be some benefits. Also supplementing in flax-oils high in ALA or something like that can be done in addition to fish oils.   Sure a  certain number of people react badly to fish oil, it can still be good for others though
 

 

 

Well, i remember some researcher who looked into that and found out it was the case, especially with omega 3 and 6. It oxidize themselve way too much.

 

With fish oil you will feed the small fraction that your body need since you dont feed any good form of omega 6 and the very important omega 3 ALA.

 

But I fully agree that if you consider the points in my previous post and you do supplement yourself with good source PEO + fish oil you know is not oxidized (ask for a certificate of analysis with pv value, because when its in the caps and in the dark normally it should remain stable) then i dont see any problem. But you still have to consider parent omega 3 and 6 as I explained. Fish oil can enter into a full spectrum fatty acid strategy.

 

I plan to supplement myself with that: http://www.iherb.com...tgels/9610?at=0 or maybe just pure hemp oil wich seems to contain good ratio.

 

Also note that saturated fat is also important, but ALL the oils already contain a good percent of that: olive oil etc..

 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: skin, hormones, brain, mental, nutritional, excess, plants, seed, fatty, evening primrose oil

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users