12 replies to this topic

[nubiensunset]

Hey everyone,

 

Do you think NAC (taken in the morning) would be a safe supplement to promote liver health in an individual who drinks 2-4 alcoholic beverages per night, every night. ?

 

 

[jroseland]

Add ALCAR

[Dorian Grey]

In past discussions on the NAC/alcohol issue a study was cited that NAC in the morning after drinking was actually counterproductive.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16439183

 

The time to take it would be either on an empty stomach an hour before dinner, or perhaps with your first drink a couple hours after dinner.  

 

Avoid mega-dosing but add Vitamin-C to recycle spent cysteine and improve the effectiveness.  

 

I went this route for several years but got spooked by warnings about safety issues http://www.longecity...-safety-update/

 

My new alcohol metabolism safety protocol:

 

Black Coffee: http://www.webmd.com...holic-cirrhosis

 

"For every daily cup of coffee that participants reported drinking, they were 22% less likely to have been diagnosed with alcoholic cirrhosis during the study, Klatzky's team reports."

 

SAM-e

PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine) aka PhosChol.  (plain lecithin / phosphatidylcholine an alternate, poor man's choice)

Curcumin

Vitamin-C, Vitamin B-Complex & Vitamin-E

Pre & Pro-Biotics (FOS & Lactobacillus Rhamnosus) aka Culturelle

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) with last drink of the evening (don't overlook the value of this supp...  Magical stuff / dirt cheap)

 

http://selfhacked.co...aging-compound/

 

"Phytic acid protects against alcohol related liver injury by blocking free radicals and elevating antioxidant potentials. 

The anti-oxidative action of phytic acid is as a result of inhibiting Xanthine Oxidase and by ‘preventing formation of ADP-iron-oxygen complexes’ (R).  It was also able to protect DNA from free radicals. "

 

I've found taking a gram of plain myo inositol an hour before I want to go to sleep also helps me avoid staying up too late and tippling to excess.  

 

Daily drinkers (particularly males) should also ask for a "Ferritin" iron lab to be added to their routine blood tests.  Keep ferritin out of triple digits (through blood donation or chelation) for optimal liver health.  Curcumin, Quercetin & IP6 are your natural iron chelators. 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12957291

 

"On the basis of these presentations, it is concluded that heavy alcohol intake can result in increased accumulation of iron in the liver, in both hepatocytes and Kupffer cells. Iron-induced oxidative stress may promote the severity of alcoholic liver disease by (1) inducing NF-kappaB activation and subsequently increasing transcription of proinflammatory cytokines in Kupffer cells; (2) exacerbating CYP2E1-induced oxidative stress, especially in hepatocytes, through production of more toxic hydroxyl radicals; (3) stimulating hepatic stellate cells to produce excess amount of collagen and other matrix proteins that can lead to fibrosis"

 

Cheers!  

Edited by synesthesia, 07 February 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[cuprous]

NAC is probably one of the more controversial supplements here.  There are quite a few who regard it as a semi-toxic substance though most evidence is in vitro and not terribly convincing.  There was a recent study that showed NAC when given to stroke-prone rats at human-equivalent doses resulted in a dose-dependent increase in strokes.  As I recall there was some discussion that possible vitamin K depletion (can't remember if that was due specifically due to NAC) may have been causal.  Vitamin K is a good one to take regardless.

 

As was previously noted, absolutely use NAC before drinking and not after.  In my subjective experience taking it after is not pleasant.  Ahead of time though and it is quite powerful in reducing hangovers.

 

One overlooked supplement when it comes to alcohol consumption is zinc.  See here.  Regular alcohol consumption depletes the body of zinc.  Additionally, given that soil concentrations of trace minerals is on a steady decline and most of our meats are fed grains it's likely that zinc deficiency is a widespread phenomenon though at sub-clinical levels.  Throw in a regular ethanol wash of your system and you are probably at risk of zinc depletion.  I have only recently started taking zinc but preliminary assessment is quite positive.  It seems to be anxiolytic via some sort of restorative pathway rather than being an adrenaline displacer like propranolol or a generalized "downer" like xanax / alprazolan.  So far so good.  I should also note that I'm a tippler like yourself.

 

Milk thistle has a range of benefits including, specifically, for the liver.  A B-complex vitamin is worth throwing in a few times a week to restore niacin though I just came across this article that zinc restores the body's ability to generate niacin.  Further research needed.

 

I'm skeptical of the claim above about adding iron as much of what I've read is that men don't need iron (maybe you're female) and reducing its levels is a worthy objective.  See this (commercial) website.  http://www.healtheiron.com/  Also consider: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/148/5/445.full.pdf

[Strelok]

Yes, NAC before drinking should be helpful. 

 

Other nutrients that may be helpful:  B-Complex (particularly B-1/Thiamine), Vitamin C, Zinc, Magnesium

 

Further help:  Liv-52/Livercare, coconut water, plenty of water

[Krell]

try a few grams of glycine in your morning coffee as a sugar replacement

 

Yin M et al. 1998. Glycine accelerates recovery from alcohol-induced liver injury. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, 286(2), 1014-1019.

 

Senthilkumar R et al. 2003. Glycine modulates hepatic lipid accumulation in alcohol-induced liver injury. Pol J Pharmacol,55(4), 603-611.

[BieraK]

Andrographis Paniculata
Milk Thistle

The NAC+B Complex+Vitamin C before drinking is good also, but add the other two supplements. 

[Skyguy2005]

NAC is probably one of the more controversial supplements here.  There are quite a few who regard it as a semi-toxic substance though most evidence is in vitro and not terribly convincing.  There was a recent study that showed NAC when given to stroke-prone rats at human-equivalent doses resulted in a dose-dependent increase in strokes.  As I recall there was some discussion that possible vitamin K depletion (can't remember if that was due specifically due to NAC) may have been causal.  Vitamin K is a good one to take regardless.

 

As was previously noted, absolutely use NAC before drinking and not after.  In my subjective experience taking it after is not pleasant.  Ahead of time though and it is quite powerful in reducing hangovers.

 

One overlooked supplement when it comes to alcohol consumption is zinc.  See here.  Regular alcohol consumption depletes the body of zinc.  Additionally, given that soil concentrations of trace minerals is on a steady decline and most of our meats are fed grains it's likely that zinc deficiency is a widespread phenomenon though at sub-clinical levels.  Throw in a regular ethanol wash of your system and you are probably at risk of zinc depletion.  I have only recently started taking zinc but preliminary assessment is quite positive.  It seems to be anxiolytic via some sort of restorative pathway rather than being an adrenaline displacer like propranolol or a generalized "downer" like xanax / alprazolan.  So far so good.  I should also note that I'm a tippler like yourself.

 

Milk thistle has a range of benefits including, specifically, for the liver.  A B-complex vitamin is worth throwing in a few times a week to restore niacin though I just came across this article that zinc restores the body's ability to generate niacin.  Further research needed.

 

I'm skeptical of the claim above about adding iron as much of what I've read is that men don't need iron (maybe you're female) and reducing its levels is a worthy objective.  See this (commercial) website.  http://www.healtheiron.com/  Also consider: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/148/5/445.full.pdf

 

Agreed on NAC, I am one of the people who doesn't like it. It's the one supplement I've tried that instantly made me feel rough. So there's that. 

 

It has too been associated with impaired proteostasis in neurological diseases, that's a red flag automatically for me. 

 

You still have milk thistle which is amazing. B-complex, 1g vitamin C before drinking, exercise before drinking so your blood circulates. Vitamin D too, why hell I'm basically describing LEF "two per day". 

 

Use pretty much everything *before* drinking, as drinking impairs metabolism. Perhaps vitamin C would be a thing to take *while* drinking, if you wanted to have something on hand. 

[Junk Master]

Good discussion.  The black coffee citation is hilarious if it's true.  Like Woody Allen's "Sleeper."

 

I've be VERY interested in a study of C60OO and liver health in heavy drinkers.

 

Though, lets face it, the liver is an AMAZING organ or the human race might be extinct!

[niner]

I'm skeptical of the claim above about adding iron as much of what I've read is that men don't need iron (maybe you're female) and reducing its levels is a worthy objective.  See this (commercial) website.  http://www.healtheiron.com/  Also consider: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/148/5/445.full.pdf

 

synesthesia wasn't advocating taking iron, but rather measuring ferritin and keeping it in check.  Iron in excess is distinctly bad.

[aribadabar]

Revolutionary idea: water down your alcoholic beverage big time, like 10:1  

Your drinking buddies would never notice and your liver will thank you.

[Dorian Grey]

Good discussion.  The black coffee citation is hilarious if it's true.  Like Woody Allen's "Sleeper."

 

I've be VERY interested in a study of C60OO and liver health in heavy drinkers.

 

Though, lets face it, the liver is an AMAZING organ or the human race might be extinct!

 

Here's more on the coffee connection...  Less SMAD2 is Good For You!

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19610047

 

And this: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21783975

 

It's the Caffeine!  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19291178

[cuprous]

 

I'm skeptical of the claim above about adding iron as much of what I've read is that men don't need iron (maybe you're female) and reducing its levels is a worthy objective.  See this (commercial) website.  http://www.healtheiron.com/  Also consider: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/148/5/445.full.pdf

 

synesthesia wasn't advocating taking iron, but rather measuring ferritin and keeping it in check.  Iron in excess is distinctly bad.

 

 

Yup, I misread his point.  I'm edging closer to being a regular blood donor for iron reduction.  My only theoretical concern is would the extra division require for replacement increase any risk of leukemia?  I know it's a stretch..