• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

LC please help in regards of ketamine

ketamine anxiety depression benzowithdrawal

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 DeniztheKid

  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 02 March 2016 - 03:06 AM


Hi all from LC"---Handshake , sorry to flood about this and that medication , i have an appointment tomorrow and, im needing help in regards of ketamine, to be honest i didnt searched a lot around LC and as i remember i found searching on google, but i dont remember to much of anything , remeber a guy that said that it was good to overcome benzo WD ,in time he dropped it. im having a appointment tomorrow with a doctor who works with it for a resonable price , im in benzowithdrawal and he will probably not buy that , im wanting to know of you guys around  , whats your tought about using it to overcome benzowithdrawal ? whats your toughts on it for depression and anxiety ? there is some interesting posts on it that you can share ?

Another question is , he is a doctor ok fine , so he will not buy benzowithdrawal , so what should i say thats happening , only my simptoms ? of course i will say that i had used almost everything , if not everything in the market here, so i runned out of options in regards of ssris and srnis, tca , tetraciclis, old and new ones . and in regards of depression and anxiety im not beliving to much on those ADs , probably they are good for someone , not for me , and from options i have IMAO , and ketamine , so please fellas , im needing your voice here



#2 DeniztheKid

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 02 March 2016 - 05:36 PM

no one ? hmm .. i didnt find nothing of to much interest man, i did a poor seach since yesterday too , what about using it on low doses in a 6 months time ? you guys think i will get kinda hooked using it for 6 months or if i would probably nice to kick it away with that period of usage ? its ok to use a nmda antagonist , disassociative substance , even in low doses for 6 months ? or i can get more derealization and depersonalization that i have at the momennt because of the withdrawal ? PLease my friends Help me here  i will be on the appointment on the next hours

 

im finding content but im not beein able to copy and paste ? wtf is happening that i cant copy and paste things ?

 

Ketamine is a drug with a wild vairety of medicinal uses , including some sucess as anti-depressant. In proper doses, it can actually activate mTorc1 pathway.

this allows mTORC1 to produce porteins needed to rebuilt lost synaptic connections.

 

if thats true maybe i would be able to rewire connections lost , for all the stress and depression from the benz WD that im suffering , toughts ?

 

 


Edited by DeniztheKid, 02 March 2016 - 06:03 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#3 DeniztheKid

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 02 March 2016 - 05:41 PM

[sorry i doubed the post]


Edited by DeniztheKid, 02 March 2016 - 06:04 PM.


#4 medievil

  • Guest Guest
  • 3,758 posts
  • 20
  • Location:Belguim

Posted 04 March 2016 - 07:26 PM

How to use ketamine as an antidepressant
This was posted on bluelight and i have permission from the guy to post it here, this is only for people that are treatment resistant, for them it can be a lifesaving option.


This is in the middle of being re-written, but should be perfectly useful as-is icon_smile.gif - Jam, Nov. 22nd, 2010

This is a work in progress, and hopefully it will still be a work in progress after I die. I shall update every time I add something. This is a preliminary and very rough draft, and I expect every word to change by the time I am done editing it. The procedure, however, remains relatively constant, so you can take it from here. Please feel free to ask any questions or leave any comments you have in this thread.


The following document is the result of several requests from people both on and off BL to write up on the way I use Ketamine medicinally to cure my manic-depression (and yes, I am diagnosed with "Bipolar II with co-morbid Dysthemia and anxiety", in case you were wondering). I have been doing this for 4 years and nothing but good came out of it. 

It is tragic that such a medicine remains illegal and largely stigmatized (even within the drug-using community).

DISCLAIMERS: 

a. I am neither a medical doctor nor a pharmacologist. My knowledge in either area is amateur at best. I am simply sharing something that has worked for me and a handful of others. Notice how the procedure is written in the first-person. This is for a reason. Therefore, if this doesn't work for you, or if you have doubts, or if you try it and screw up, then I'm sorry, but I am not responsible for that.

b. This is for the truly melancholic depressed people. If you're depressed because you haven't had sex in 2 weeks, then this guide is NOT for you. My point is: There are several types of depression, and there are several cures. This is not for someone who is simply feeling down. This guide is for those who truly suffer from an incurable depression that is out of their hands.

c. That said, over the years that I've been hammering this procedure out, many new people have tried it, and I heard nothing but praise for it. I literally have not received a single complaint yet. And while I am personally convinced of its safety at this point, please do keep in mind that research regarding safety is just starting to surface, and caution is still important.

NOTE that throughout this procedure it is assumed that one has no other drugs in one's system, including Cannabis. Nicotine seems to be acceptable.



PART I: Science
Full Bibliography available below.

Recent Findings and Discussion:

Read this thread for the latest research on the area as well as my notes which complement this procedure.

When I wrote the first draft of this document, interest in Ketamine's antidepressant action was just starting to break in to the scientific mainstream, even though a Glutamate-based model of depression had been in existence for a while. Dissociative Anaesthetics carry a huge stigma, and one can only be happy that this stigma is only just beginning to be outweighed by the possibilities presented with this theory.

Since then, especially over the last year, there has been an explosion of interest in Ketamine's antidepressant effects, generating a wholesome body of scientific literature that aims at this specific quality of Ketamine rather than discussing it as a side-topic. 

My current, amateur, and personal opinion reflecting on these studies follows. Feel free to skip.

Ketamine is an extremely complex drug, pharmacologically-speaking. It has an immensely wide therapeutic window being active with as little as 5mg and as much as 2g while maintaining safety. Unlike most drugs which simply intensify in effect as the dose is raised, Ketamine seems to morph into what looks like several different drugs, depending on dosage. On the very high end, it acts as an anaesthetic, it is considered an essential medicine internationally, and its safety as an anaesthetic is established beyond all doubts by years of use on all kinds of animals, including human children. Just now, the scientific community is awakening to the effects of lower (several magnitudes in order) doses as possessing apparently miraculous antidepressant effects. Somewhere between contentment and anaesthesia is the realm of entheogenic experience - a property of Ketamine exploited by shamans, party-goers, and even recognized, if not used, by a few licensed therapists (e.g. Grof). 

Of course, I will not be talking about anaesthetic use in this document. Nor will I be talking about Entheogenic/Psycholytic use of this medicine here, as this is a vast and wonderful subject to which justice cannot be done in a simple forum post. If interested, I refer you to Karl Jansen's authoritative classic, Ketamine: Dreams and Realities. This can be ordered from the MAPS website where proceeds can go for a good cause.

It is therefore conceivable that the antiquated neuropharmacological paradigm of trying to tie the effects of a drug or a psychiatric disorder to a single neurotransmitter, particularly in the case of melancholia, has long expired. It is time to look for something else that takes into account both big AND small phenomena, and arrive at an emergent hypothesis that accounts for both itself and its constituents. 


Evidence for Safety in Antidepressant Use:


RESULTS: Ketamine elicited minimal positive psychotic symptoms. Three patients experienced significant but transient dissociative symptoms. Side effects during and after each ketamine infusion were generally mild. The response criterion was met by nine patients after the first infusion as well as after the sixth infusion. The mean (SD) reduction in MADRS scores after the sixth infusion was 85% (12%). Postketamine, eight of nine patients relapsed, on average, 19 days after the sixth infusion (range 6 days-45 days). One patient remained antidepressant-free with minimal depressive symptoms for >3 months.

CONCLUSIONS: These pilot findings suggest feasibility of repeated-dose IV ketamine for the acute treatment of TRD.

aan het Rot M, Collins KA, Murrough JW, et al. Safety and efficacy of repeated-dose intravenous ketamine for treatment-resistant depression. Biol. Psychiatry. 2010;67(2):139-145..

A nice summary of recent Findings:

[nsfw][/nsfw]

Rao TS, Andrade C. Innovative approaches to treatment - refractory depression: The ketamine story. Indian J Psychiatry [serial online] 2010 [cited 2010 Nov 23];52:97-9. Available from: http://www.indianjps..../52/2/97/64573 

[Full Article Available Free]


A Few Examples of Recent Research:

RESULTS: Subjects receiving ketamine showed significant improvement in depression compared with subjects receiving placebo within 110 minutes after injection, which remained significant throughout the following week. The effect size for the drug difference was very large (d = 1.46 [95% confidence interval, 0.91-2.01]) after 24 hours and moderate to large (d = 0.68 [95% confidence interval, 0.13-1.23]) after 1 week. Of the 17 subjects treated with ketamine, 71% met response and 29% met remission criteria the day following ketamine infusion. Thirty-five percent of subjects maintained response for at least 1 week.

CONCLUSIONS: Robust and rapid antidepressant effects resulted from a single intravenous dose of an N-methyl-D-aspartate antagonist; onset occurred within 2 hours postinfusion and continued to remain significant for 1 week.


Zarate CA, Singh JB, Carlson PJ, et al. A Randomized Trial of an N-methyl-D-aspartate Antagonist in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2006;63(icon_cool.gif:856-864.

----

Depression is prevalent and undertreated in patients receiving hospice care. Standard antidepressants do not work rapidly or often enough to benefit most of these patients. Here, two cases are reported in which a single oral dose of ketamine provided rapid and moderately sustained symptom relief for both depression and anxiety. In addition, no adverse effects were noted. Further investigation with randomized, controlled clinical trials is necessary to firmly establish the effectiveness of oral ketamine for the treatment of depression and anxiety in patients receiving hospice care. Ketamine may be a promising safe, effective, and cost-effective rapid treatment for depression and anxiety in this population.

Irwin SA, Iglewicz A. Oral ketamine for the rapid treatment of depression and anxiety in patients receiving hospice care. J Palliat Med. 2010;13(7):903-908.

-----

RESULTS: Suicidal ideation scores decreased significantly on the SSI as well as on the suicide subscales of other rating instruments within 40 minutes; these decreases remained significant through the first 4 hours postinfusion (P < .001). Ten subjects (30%) had an SSI score ≥ 4 at baseline; all these scores dropped below 4 (9 dropped by 40 minutes and 1 by 80 minutes). For those patients with a starting score below 4 on the SSI, only 1 reached a score of 4. Depression, anxiety, and hopelessness were significantly improved at all time points (P < .001).

CONCLUSIONS: Suicidal ideation in the context of MDD improved within 40 minutes of a ketamine infusion and remained improved for up to 4 hours postinfusion. Future studies with ketamine in suicidal ideation are warranted due to the potential impact on public health.

Diazgranados N, Ibrahim LA, Brutsche NE, et al. Rapid resolution of suicidal ideation after a single infusion of an N-methyl-D-aspartate antagonist in patients with treatment-resistant major depressive disorder. J Clin Psychiatry. 2010. Available at:http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20673547 [Accessed November 23, 2010].

-----

There are scores more research, with more being added daily. I will be updating this and adding to it periodically, as with the bibliography.
PART II: My Procedure
This is still under construction, but should be useful as-is. 

Preliminaries:

Below is a list of things that I personally use for this procedure. If you are unable to get one or any of the below things, I suppose you can use your eyeballs and intuition, and hope that your intuition doesn’t want a buzz, but actually wants to heal.

What is recomended:
- A limited supply of the purest Ketamine one can get, in powder form.
- A “bumper” or bullet or any device that will give out a calculated dose.
- A mg scale.

EDIT: Actually the IM route seems to be ideal. If at all capable of obtaining sealed medical vials and know proper sterile IM technique, then by all means.

Even after all this is obtained, the most important part is SELF CONTROL. Setting a strict budget or getting a limited supply is a good way to do that. Precision in dosing does not seem too critical [Edit: Further experimentation revealed to me that the more precise the dosing, the better - and that an ideal dose is 12mg], as long as that saturation is attained and maintained (more on that later). The reason self-control is critical is so that therapeutic relief of the disease itself is attained rather than having its symptoms masked with a "K-hole." I will detail below a series of “checkpoints” that will tell you whether you are still on track or not.

Some notes: It is unfortunate that Ketamine does not work well rectally, and I am not rich enough to experiment with oral administrtion although I imagine it should work just as well. I don't know if IMing is a good idea, unless you enjoy looking like a pincushion! [EDIT: Further experimentation revealed that IM is perhaps the BEST method as it allows for a calculated dose] IVing is out of question, and I can only call it abuse. IMO, if this eventually turns out to be a legit medical practice, a controlled-release transdermal patch would be ideal. But for now, intranasal seems to be the most convenient method. I have attempted to make nasal sprayers but found them useless as the dose delivered per spray is very low and too much spraying leads to lots of drips and will indubitably form halos of crusty stuff around your nostrils... 

About isomers: I have not worked with pure s-Ketamine or pure r-Ketamine, so I cannot speak for these. I have, however, worked with the racemate (most commonly available, and likely what you’re getting) and another brand reported 8:2 ratio of s:r, respectively. The latter is the Ketamine I’ve been using therapeutically for the past 4 and a bit years, as it is much less tempting to abuse than the racemate, while the latter would be my personal choice for entheogenic or IV experiments.

EDIT: Recently the above has come to be questioned. I can say with certainty that most of what I used was Racemic. I also had the chance to try s-Ketamine since and found it to be lessuseful.

A note on dosing: I used to basically make my own bumps/lines and eyeball a dose. Since this is something that will be done several times daily for several days, measuring each dose individually is simply impractical. What happened is that I decided to just walk into a local headshop and buy a “bumper” – if you don’t know what that is, it is a simple device designed to produce a consistent small dose out of a chamber containing a large amount of powder. I used the scale several times to figure out the average dose that this bumper will produce, and it was perfect: 10 – 20mg for each bump.


  • Informative x 3

#5 medievil

  • Guest Guest
  • 3,758 posts
  • 20
  • Location:Belguim

Posted 04 March 2016 - 07:29 PM

The actual procedure:

It really doesn’t matter how you decide to start. On some occasions, I’d take a recreational dose, and after that, work from there. Other times, I simply start with the smallest dose possible. The bottom line is that what is done in the first couple of days seems to be of little consequence to the regimen, as long as some amount of Ketamine is constantly supplied. (This is what leads me to believe that the desired effect is a result of some kind of receptor saturation).

Here is my own thought on this: A recreational dose for a start may allow for some introspection , or even just a bit of fun to take one’s mind off things. The follow up would then be a maintained and controlled intake of small doses to achieve a very specific state (lets call it “a state of balance”), completely different from the usual effects of Ketamine.

Going back to what was said earlier, I say what happens in the first few days seems of little consequence because it has become apparent to me that this “state of balance” will simply not manifest until after a few days of constant use. So here is what I do:

After the initial dose, I wait until I feel completely sober, and I take my first dose (from here on, “dose” will mean 2 bumps, one in each nostril). I then wait an hour and take the dose again. If I feel I got too buzzed, I wait two hours until I redose. Don’t worry – eventually one will only need 4 – 5 doses per day, but the beginning is always a tricky calibration between a buzz and “tuning in” to that state of balance. [EDIT: Later experimentation with precise dosing via IM showed that several tiny doses per day are more effective than a few big ones]. This first stage is the most difficult one, and one that admittedly resembles simple abuse and denial thereof, (but bear with me)... in fact it may cause negative side effects such as headache, ataxia, confusion, and even nausea (none of which should be too severe – if they are, you’re abusing it!). All these effects should subside by the end of the second day (Edit: this is definitely consistent, I made two experiments since writing the first draft and reproduced this faithfully).

EDIT: In the two years following the writing of this document, I underwent this procedure many times, with a number of them using precise dosing via IM. All is still consistent, but I have noted that in some cases the nausea CAN be severe enough to cause vomiting, generally intensifying at the end of day 1, yet also consistent is the fact that as soon as it is purged, it goes and never returns, no matter how much you take or how long I take it for. The fact that I experienced this most severely when I was severely depressed suggests that it could very well be psychosomatic and that the purging is a cathartic experience.

This goes on until that state of balance is attained. It will become apparent after the fact that one feels clear-headed, motivated, content (note: content, not manic or euphoric) and completely sober and NORMAL (a word very rare in the world of bipolar people), and that those effects now seem independent of the exact moment one takes a new dose (you were that way, and you simply continue to be that way after you dose rather than experiencing a shift in consciousness). At that point, it seems like a certain saturation is attained, and this state of balance becomes one’s new “baseline”. It truly feels as though some switches have been switched off and a couple of new ones have been switched on.

And from here, one can dose less frequently per day. The trick is not to fall into the trap of trying to catch a buzz while maintaining this state – because you can, by simply taking a higher dose than usual. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. What is fascinating is that if I willingly decide to catch a buzz or even an entheogenic experience, when I return to baseline, my baseline will actually be that state of balance, not my bipolar “sobriety”. 

I REPEAT: THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THIS WHOLE PROCEDURE IS RESISTING THE URGE TO GET HIGH. Two years after writing this articles, I received nothing but good reports except from two people, and both admitted to having succumbed to abusing the drug by binging on recreational doses.

Another pointer that that state as been attained is that one can maintain it overnight while one sleeps without the need to wake up for a scheduled dose. One’s sleeping patterns are no longer affected (as use of small doses of K can cause amphetamine-like stimulation), and one wakes up feeling fine, not hung-over, or manic, or depressed - just fine. Of course, a morning dose is definitely recommended to maintain that. How many times a day one must redose seems to be entirely dependent on one’s brain chemistry. Eventually it always balances out.

Once that week is over (or the limited amount of Ketamine is depleted), this state of balance should remain for at least 2-3 weeks, assuming no other drugs were taken. I have no idea how this would turn out for the chronic cannabis smoker, since I do not partake in cannabis regularly. 

One thing I recently discovered accidentally is that Gabapentin seems to "fortify" and maintain the state of balance for longer (it potentiates Ketamine for me anyway), but I'd have to try this again on my next regimen. 

EDIT: Gabapentin was used in two regimens since the first draft was written, and has proven to be a fantastic tool in this regard. Gabapentin has become second only to Ketamine as a wonder-drug in my world. 

EDIT2: I have absolutely no doubt that Gabapenin works wonders to "Rekindle" the effect. I have also found that using Hydergine concurrently with the procedure tends to enhance the effects.

Some checkpoints to make sure you're on the right track:

- By day 4, are you still stumbling when you walk, dizzy, slurring your speech, or getting any other clear symptoms of intoxication? If so, STOP! You've been abusing.

- By day 5, if you feel "loopy", then you're abusing.

- Panic Attack? While K is known to be a panic-free drug. Getting a panic attack as a direct result of taking K is, IME, a sign of having binged on very high doses. The best thing to do, IME, is if you've taken a high dose to taper down to a 10mg or so dose. 

- Are you drinking more often, or taking more drugs than you used to? Another bad sign. I have found that the above procedure has an anti-addictive property, and I have actually used it to help myself quit benzos and codeine. I don't yet have enough info to make the claim that it definitely cures addiction, though.

- A seemingly universal (ie. from everyone that gave me feedback) effect of this procedure is that it makes one a more pleasant person to deal with. If you've been getting complaints about some serious personality changes, then look back and make sure you're doing everything properly. 

- By day 7, do you notice no improvement, despite having followed this procedure faithfully, calibrated your weights, and followed the checkpoints? Then perhaps this is simply not for you. 


In conclusion, I sincerely hope this is helpful to you. If you have any questions, please post them in this thread.



PART III: Some Idiosyncrasies and Intrigues

My personal experience w.r.t. the method of action, without getting into biochemical jargon which I am simply not qualified enough to discuss, is as follows:

It appears that Ketamine interacts with two separate "systems" or "circuits" (nerve-related). One is excitatory, the other inhibitory (let as call them a and b). The body, in turn, reacts as Ketamine wears off, with inhibitory and an excitatory reactions in the respective systems (let's call them x and y). It appears that this can be "harmonically" exploited by re-dosing the ketamine as these reactions start up such that Ketamine's inhibitory action (b) synergizes with excitatory reaction (x), and Ketamine's excitatory action (a) synergizes with the body's inhibitoryreaction (y). 

I am sorry if this is confusing, but it is the best I can articulate what my body is telling me.

Interestingly, while I have never had a particular interest in Chinese medicine, it appears that the Taoist model is more helpful in this particular instance: from my limited understanding, the Chinese posit that the body had active currents (Yin) and Passive ones (Yang), and that good health is obtained by balancing these two currents through a healthy lifestyle (cf. Chia).

My experience has repeatedly shown me that a successful Ketamine therapy course will, at its best, result not only in a sense of contentment and balance, but also a moment of clarity when the body feels absolutely at peace, as though a gentle wave of frothy, lukewarm (just right) water has washed upon it. Incidentally, much later, I realized that the Chinese use this very metaphor to explain the state of balanced health.

Does this prove the Chinese model correct? I have no idea. But here is to hoping Ketamine bridges the gap between Modern and Traditional medicines!

[More to be added]

PART IV: First-hand Accounts Feedback

[To Do]

PART V: Bibliography.

[To Do]

Update History:

  • November 22nd, 2008: Finally gave it a proofread (heh, about time), fleshed out some parts, and added several updates (some important) since the first draft.
  • November 20th, 2010: Updated with several edits. To be ironed out and rewritten soon.
  • November 22nd, 2010: 2 Year Anniversary!! Added entire new section (Part I), and edited typos out of Part II.

[/QUOTE]


mTOR-Dependent Synapse Formation Underlies the Rapid Antidepressant Effects of NMDA Antagonists
Nanxin Li, Boyoung Lee, Rong-Jian Liu, Mounira Banasr, Jason M. Dwyer, Masaaki Iwata, Xiao-Yuan Li, George Aghajanian and Ronald S. Duman*
+ Author Affiliations

Laboratory of Molecular Psychiatry, Center for Genes and Behavior, Departments of Psychiatry and Neurobiology, Yale University School of Medicine, 34 Park Street, New Haven, CT 06508, USA.
*To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: ronald.duman@yale.edu
ABSTRACT

The rapid antidepressant response after ketamine administration in treatment-resistant depressed patients suggests a possible new approach for treating mood disorders compared to the weeks or months required for standard medications. However, the mechanisms underlying this action of ketamine [a glutamate N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) receptor antagonist] have not been identified. We observed that ketamine rapidly activated the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) pathway, leading to increased synaptic signaling proteins and increased number and function of new spine synapses in the prefrontal cortex of rats. Moreover, blockade of mTOR signaling completely blocked ketamine induction of synaptogenesis and behavioral responses in models of depression. Our results demonstrate that these effects of ketamine are opposite to the synaptic deficits that result from exposure to stress and could contribute to the fast antidepressant actions of ketamine.
 
 
 
I hope this helps, bit thx to jamshyd on bluelight

  • Informative x 2

#6 sthira

  • Guest
  • 2,008 posts
  • 406

Posted 04 March 2016 - 09:07 PM

So where do you obtain pure amounts of this stuff? I've looked into it locally where I grumble around under my own peculiar depressive funk, and the fuckwad psychiatrists offering courses of it do so at outrageously steep prices. Do you think hell shall exist for profiteers of suffering & misery?

#7 medievil

  • Guest Guest
  • 3,758 posts
  • 20
  • Location:Belguim

Posted 04 March 2016 - 09:13 PM

Methoxetamine is easily ordered online and ppl respond simular effects, us pharmacys sell it in nasal spray, otherwise youll have to buy it from dealer, but then you need to know the rith ppl.



#8 DeniztheKid

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 05 March 2016 - 04:44 AM

yea , it seems that it would be of great help for me to overcome this , its beein very hard for me, i have some places to order methoxetamine , but im not sure if i will ever see it buyng from them , that said , i dont know any reliable source online .other then that i think this could be of help to get over it . i still have my friends from back in the day , probably i woulld just find cut materials , and im not with conditions to go to the pure source ;

 

 JUST A STATEMENt HERE  , im 23 years old , i got me into this after my family asked me to take a drug ( antipsicotic) for my "misconduct "  miscounduct , was having bad influences as my friends , messing with things that i shouldnt , and basically stop me from what i was doing , i didnt expected that a drug woud cut my wings like it did, after a week taking it , i had a bad reaction that i felt so bad that lead me to benzos to relax , and since then i just updosed hecause i just couldnt stop, and my life became misreable , with needing to take adrug to live  , the decision of stopping it was because i know i would not feel wellbeeing  living drugged by it a life changing decision . my receptors system what very affected by the benzos of course , and after stopping it i experied something like life shattering simptoms  AND i just need to overcome this , if i do not overcome this , if do not get over it benzos would have just screwed me up . for me its get over it or end of the line for me , really sad .

 

in the matter of pdocs , i paid 250$ for the appointment , it would be a possibility , but he didnt understande the severity really , he did not buy benzowithdrawal, he said this do not exist, and he said that costs for the ketamine would be high , so he said basically e would charge me something i cant pay for the treatment .


Edited by DeniztheKid, 05 March 2016 - 05:23 AM.


#9 medievil

  • Guest Guest
  • 3,758 posts
  • 20
  • Location:Belguim

Posted 05 March 2016 - 07:45 AM

You still suffer from side effects of antispsychotics?

 

benzos have protracted withdrawals, i dont know wheter ketamine would work for that, memantine which work for their tolerance and helps withdrawals might help you or ultra low dose flumazenil


  • Needs references x 1

#10 DeniztheKid

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:00 PM

no the suffering from antipsicotics were all gone 3 months after stopping them (very bad kind of shit , spams , twitching , eyes rolling ) it all gone by month 3  . 

 

 I know about proacted , i have memantine here , it did nothing much for me , or i didnt wait time to see if it would do something , so i started lyrica and its keep my simptoms mostly on bay  ( simptoms linked to anxiety , dp/dr , agitation , brain fog )

but the depression ( motivation , energy , colors , even suicidal toughts hit me at moments ) because all that stuff recked my life , school , work , i was doing that taking benzos , but it was affecting me in a way that i needed to stop . and when i stopped it recked all , i couldnt stand work , school , social engagement , i got reckt by it ...

 

   From what i know until know , lyrica dont interact with GABAreceptors , so i will keep recovering from the benzo abuse while taking it , at least with lyrica im going out and doing whatever , to keep stimulus coming , so i can readapt, like doing whatever to force my receptors or CNS do readapt do stimulus  ... you got my point ?

 

after some months i will begin to taper lyrica to see how my simptoms are without it . you know im still depress ,  im very depress with all that stuff going on with me . i feel totally wicked by that , i got a lift from pregabalin , but i dont know if  will be good taking interruptly while recovering , if i get mex or ketamine it will be good to help me to get out of this dark depression 

 

Flumenazil you have any reports of it doing good for proacted , or for benzowithdrawal ? im not aware of that medievil , by antagonizing the receptors would revert what benzos did ?   .



#11 medievil

  • Guest Guest
  • 3,758 posts
  • 20
  • Location:Belguim

Posted 06 March 2016 - 06:58 AM

Gabapentin and lyrica lower glutamate while increasing gaba which is probably why it helps you, that said it doesnt act as a PAM like benzos and if it causes gaba downregulation that wont cause protacted withdrawals like benzos.

 

Also mate do research on pdocs before yousee one, the average doc and pdoc is stupid, in england they take that a extremely higher level, theres no country with shocking bad healtcare like the uk im sure.

 

Have you considered amphetamine with memantine for your depression and motivation issues? if ketamine doesnt work out perhaps you need to consider staying on meds to go into remission long term, its not a bad thing, ppl that suffer fro,m your symptions because of mental health do this.

 

Ultra low doses dont antagonize benzos enough to inhibit them but totally prevents tolerance, so perhaps a ultra low dose reverses the permanent effects it has, dont try a normaldose or youll get seizures



#12 DeniztheKid

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 07 March 2016 - 03:52 AM

   I understand bro ,thats true probably is what you said , im not beeing able to handle glutamate because of what benzos did to my GABAreceptors , im just a little afraid that im still downregulating them because of the increase of gaba that pregabalin provoke  , if my GABAR will be still regulating itself while on lyrica thats fine, i will keep it and after some time i will drop pregabalin litlle by little , to see if my GABArec. are recovering,  if yes , i will be able to drop pregabalin in time and feel fine again without it , if not sadly i will have to keep it.

 

Im in brazill so you know , things are fucked up here too..

 

  i have considered antidepressants before , to be true , i remember a time that i was on citalopram , and i kicked benzos on it , i felt weird for some time but i kicked it and i was feeling 100%, but in time , i fckd up with coke , and returned to take benzos , and dropped the ssris , i think that i was not even needind the ssris anymore , but as i said , i fckd up with coke and reinstate benzos . I tried citalopram earlier in withdrawal but i couldnt stand the side effects until it kicked in , if it would kick in, but i didnt handle it without rivotril , and i dont know if it would work for the second time , i read reviews of people stopping it thinking that they were fine , and when reinstated it didnt work anymore (?) what you think about that (?)

 

 i dont know what memantine would to help really,  and anphetamines , i  have a source for vynvanse , adderal and stuff , but i dont stand up for mess with it ATM ;

 

   About Ketamine , mate  im thinking here , i think that there is a doctor here that if i insisted he could try it , nice doctor , i talked about it with him some time ago , but he said that ketamine is addictive and he didnt saw much therapeutic effect from it (maybe he is not well informed on that matter of ketamine for depression and anxiety) 

He said that maybe it would bring more problems, but from what im reading , it could help me to kick this withdrawal in some time , just by going back to life on it , as i did before with citalopram, i got a lift from citalopram and i kicked benzos before,  i would like to know from your pov , what do you think about the possibility of get addicted on it with therapeutic doses   (?)   thank you mate . 


Edited by DeniztheKid, 07 March 2016 - 03:55 AM.


#13 sativa

  • Guest
  • 536 posts
  • 46
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 13 March 2016 - 07:24 AM

DeniztheKid, are you able to buy Suma root aka "para todo"/Brazilian ginseng/Pfaffia paniculata/Hebanthe paniculata?

Link: www.rain-tree.com/suma.htm

It might provide some baseline support for you as it is an adaptogen, and also has glutamate activity (mGluR1 antagonist).

Suma root / Brazilian Ginseng / Pfaffia glomerata seems to block mGlu-receptors

Our results suggest that inhibition of glutamatergic metabotropic receptors and TNF-α may account for the antinociceptive action reported for the HE in models of chemical pain used in this study.

→ source (external link)


I experience healthy wellbeing effect from Suma.

I take 4-5g daily.
It is only really suitable for males btw.

Other beneficial effects is increased. Muscle mass and improved blood oxygen levels due to more red blood cells.


For benzo withdrawal, have you tried Theanine? Once the initial effects wear of, it will upregulate your GABA(B) receptors. It also activates BDNF (similarly to ketamine) and GDNF which is linked to dopaminergic neurons.

Another powerful "anti addiction" and "anti withdrawal" aid which you might be able to get hold of is iboga. Iboga is probably the best that nature can offer!

Edited by sativa, 13 March 2016 - 07:28 AM.


#14 DeniztheKid

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 2
  • Location:brazil

Posted 16 April 2016 - 05:20 AM

Hey sativa , sorry for the late answer, Yes , im waiting for the money to buy some things next month . Im needing some natural things in one hand to handle with the withdrawal symptoms of the benzodiazepine descontinuation , and in other hand , For health , that ginseng is a nice one to go , blood oxigenation , and etc . Im smoking a lot , im not eating well , and the stress that im taking for all that im experiencing must be fucking me up inside . I will go with the ginseng , i will go with curcumin and some other ones , maybe i will try a nootropic too ..  if you or anyone have anything to recommend or sugest, please do it here 

 

About ketamine that is the thread subject, i have been hearing some good things about it , unfurtunately , i cant afford to take it with the help of doctors , very expensive to afford it with doctors , for me to take it on my own , its not good . maybe or probably i will flood my dose , or i will end using it recreationaly ...

 

I will update how im going with the withdrawal im the thread i made about it , lyrica for BWD... 

 

 If you @sativa or anyone have something to say ,recommend , please say it here or on my other thread linked to benzo wd 

 

 Thank you all 



#15 SoundsAboutRight

  • Guest
  • 51 posts
  • 1
  • Location:California
  • NO

Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:18 AM

does anyone know how to make intranasal ketamine out of the powder?

 

Found this site: http://www.vitalitym...-cancaster.html

 

Provides lists of atomizers

 

What liquid do you dissolve the ketamine in? And dosage is suppose to be 100mg/mL? But I found someone stating that only 20mg can dissolve inside 1ml...


Edited by mfad, 06 August 2017 - 08:28 AM.


#16 Deaden

  • Guest
  • 232 posts
  • -35
  • Location:Not telling
  • NO

Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:26 AM

Anyone knows if ketamine pills instead of injections can also help for anhedonia? And where I could buy some online..?



#17 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 06 August 2017 - 09:41 AM

Anyone knows if ketamine pills instead of injections can also help for anhedonia? And where I could buy some online..?

 

Is anhedonia actually your diagnosis? I don't recall you ever revealing what diagnosis you have?

Have you ever really had a proper check-up and evaluation by professionals? Unless you have gotten blood checked, and psych evaluation, I wouldn't mess around with something as dangerous as Ketamine - this stuff is a controlled substance for a reason, friend.

 

Another reason I'm asking, is because we have a few people on this site whom are Schizophrenics, and suffer from SCHIZ-Anhedonia - if you would happen to be one of them... or if you are one of the people whom have DP/DR-Anhedonia, then KETAMINE WILL F*CK YOU OVER MORE THAN ANYTHING IMAGINABLE!

 

Please, please... don't use Ketamine until you have an informed knowledge about yourself.

 

 

PS: No, as far as I know, there is no place-controlled truly solid trial which proves that oral Ketamine has any true antidepressant or antianhedonic effect - it seems to be mostly narcotic via that route.
 

The only evidence seems to be for intravenous infusion, like for depression.

 

http://www.psypost.o...epression-37570



#18 Deaden

  • Guest
  • 232 posts
  • -35
  • Location:Not telling
  • NO

Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:46 PM

Well... I didn't really get a diagnosis except after telling my psychiatrist I had anhedonia he gave me the major depression label with no testing, and I guess that's the same. I've ordered a lot of blood test and everything came back normal, but I still haven't checked my vitamin B1 levels and I want to... not expecting much though. They didn't notice anything wrong with my MRI and ECT either. Also, I don't know what you mean by "check-up and evaluation by professionals", so far I haven't encountered one doctor that knows what anhedonia is except one that said some schizophrenics have that... nice. So how can they know what testing I need? Apparently I need to do everything myself and I don't believe it's going too bad.

 

My mom thought it was a good idea to pay for a personality assessment to get a diagnosis, she paid two thousand and they tested my memory, IQ, asked me what my problems were, then hundreds of questions on my personality and how I viewed the world. They said I was on in top 10% in terms of intelligence, had amnesia, anxiety and depression. WHAT?? Okay first off, my memory is bad, but I do not have amnesia. This is my memory: http://forums.phoeni...me.22222/page-2 - https://www.reddit.com/r/depression/comments/2teoqh/i_feel_like_my_memories_arent_real/#bottom-comments . Second, I have almost zero anxiety in my everyday life. Maybe I had some before the anhedonia started, but I'm barely anxious ever now. I told them all that, but they didn't care apparently. They had no other explanation and went with the easy way of giving me an incompetent diagnosis instead of just saying: "I'm sorry, we do not know what you have". Even if I didn't get my money back, I would have be way more satisfied with that answer. Concerning the depression...sigh. I don't think it's a good explication, then they told me to go see a therapist like it would help in anything. I've been seeing a therapist for a year since I moved to the US, but literally only because it's free with my insurance, and to practice my English or because I'm bored. 35 years of practice, and he is useless.

 

I just made an appointment to the neurologist, I have to wait till October. Maybe I will get an explanation for my memory, also I will ask about why weed/mushrooms make me amnesic every five seconds, then when stress is up my brain starts hurting so much that I want to die on those drugs. It's like my brain (yes brain not anywhere else) is getting stabbed with knives charged on electricity every second. It happened two times and had to go to the ER and scream in pain for hours until the pain tires me out instead of keeping me awake. The pain so intense I was seriously considering stealing the gun of a cop and blowing my heads off (and trust me I've been paranoid about death since I'm five). The medication they gave me for pain did not do anything, but the one to put me to sleep did. Although it took an hour to work and that was way way too much. I used to be completely fine smoking weed, then had that experience, so never again. But then I tried mushrooms, first time was paradise for my anhedonia, second time was hell (not over exaggerating a single bit). Anyway... still have zero answers for that and that's just really curious and scary. Hopefully my memory is bad so it kind of protects me against being traumatized, it's like it never happened. Guess it has advantages and quite a few probably would like to have my memory, like people with PTSD. I'm sure they'd love it. Alcohol also makes me have dementia like symptoms...man.

 

Anyway, concerning schizophrenia, I have no relatives with that disorder. The only symptoms I experience of schizophrenia is the anhedonia. Chronic stress being the cause of it is the answer that makes the most sense. Before it started, I was working day and night, working out 6times a week with ambitions of being perfect. I know it's a narcissistic ideal but I'm also someone caring. My ambitions came from me always being an existential person since I'm very young. I thought it was the only thing that would give meaning to a meaningless life, and also dreamed of immortality. At first I loved it, all I needed was my music and energy drinks and I would feel euphoric/highly motivated, like I could not fail. After a few months of that, it turned into stress and became increasingly difficult but I still continued and focused on my ambitions. My emotions became more and more numb, music was my life and it would start being less and less stimulating. I didn't have any other answers for that than personality disorders at the time and tried diagnosing myself of sociopathy or narcissism. For weeks I wasn't sure, I would read articles and analyze my memory and personality. It should have been obvious I wasn't that, but remember... I'm dissociated from my memory and it makes it hard to be certain of anything. Needless to say I just stressed myself over more with trying to diagnose myself and speeded up the progress until I became completely anhedonic. It took me a while to learn about anhedonia. Now it's almost been a year, but I'm trying stuff that have more chances of working than anything I tried so far. I believe it makes sense I got it from chronic stress and not anything else, do you agree? You can read my topic if you want, I found two other really good solutions if my combination of drugs doesn't work. Thank you for the information on ketamine though. I will probably regret posting this monologue about my life but I was really bored because of the insomnia from Nardil...



#19 SoundsAboutRight

  • Guest
  • 51 posts
  • 1
  • Location:California
  • NO

Posted 07 August 2017 - 02:01 AM

 

Anyone knows if ketamine pills instead of injections can also help for anhedonia? And where I could buy some online..?

 

Is anhedonia actually your diagnosis? I don't recall you ever revealing what diagnosis you have?

Have you ever really had a proper check-up and evaluation by professionals? Unless you have gotten blood checked, and psych evaluation, I wouldn't mess around with something as dangerous as Ketamine - this stuff is a controlled substance for a reason, friend.

 

Another reason I'm asking, is because we have a few people on this site whom are Schizophrenics, and suffer from SCHIZ-Anhedonia - if you would happen to be one of them... or if you are one of the people whom have DP/DR-Anhedonia, then KETAMINE WILL F*CK YOU OVER MORE THAN ANYTHING IMAGINABLE!

 

Please, please... don't use Ketamine until you have an informed knowledge about yourself.

 

 

PS: No, as far as I know, there is no place-controlled truly solid trial which proves that oral Ketamine has any true antidepressant or antianhedonic effect - it seems to be mostly narcotic via that route.
 

The only evidence seems to be for intravenous infusion, like for depression.

 

http://www.psypost.o...epression-37570

 

 

Deaden -

I doubt you are a Narcissist... if you have had pleasure before then this is not possible (Pleasure is warm btw). Sociopaths are manipulative... your definitely not that....

 

Stink why do you think Ketamine will make Anhedonia worse?



#20 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:29 AM

 

 

Anyone knows if ketamine pills instead of injections can also help for anhedonia? And where I could buy some online..?

 

Is anhedonia actually your diagnosis? I don't recall you ever revealing what diagnosis you have?

Have you ever really had a proper check-up and evaluation by professionals? Unless you have gotten blood checked, and psych evaluation, I wouldn't mess around with something as dangerous as Ketamine - this stuff is a controlled substance for a reason, friend.

 

Another reason I'm asking, is because we have a few people on this site whom are Schizophrenics, and suffer from SCHIZ-Anhedonia - if you would happen to be one of them... or if you are one of the people whom have DP/DR-Anhedonia, then KETAMINE WILL F*CK YOU OVER MORE THAN ANYTHING IMAGINABLE!

 

Please, please... don't use Ketamine until you have an informed knowledge about yourself.

 

 

PS: No, as far as I know, there is no place-controlled truly solid trial which proves that oral Ketamine has any true antidepressant or antianhedonic effect - it seems to be mostly narcotic via that route.
 

The only evidence seems to be for intravenous infusion, like for depression.

 

http://www.psypost.o...epression-37570

 

 

Deaden -

I doubt you are a Narcissist... if you have had pleasure before then this is not possible (Pleasure is warm btw). Sociopaths are manipulative... your definitely not that....

 

Stink why do you think Ketamine will make Anhedonia worse?

 

 

I was probably somewhat unclear in my last post - I think it would worsen Depersonalisation and Derealisation, not Anhedonia.

 

The Anhedonia is not always present with DP/DR, and some people only get it after having the disorder for some time - when they start realizing that nothing will ever be real again, and it's all a living, waking dream.

 

Ketamine would probably help them with the anhedonic part, at first, but send them into psychosis or permanently, irreparable DP/DR after a little while.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#21 Deaden

  • Guest
  • 232 posts
  • -35
  • Location:Not telling
  • NO

Posted 07 August 2017 - 11:45 AM

 

 

 

Anyone knows if ketamine pills instead of injections can also help for anhedonia? And where I could buy some online..?

 

Is anhedonia actually your diagnosis? I don't recall you ever revealing what diagnosis you have?

Have you ever really had a proper check-up and evaluation by professionals? Unless you have gotten blood checked, and psych evaluation, I wouldn't mess around with something as dangerous as Ketamine - this stuff is a controlled substance for a reason, friend.

 

Another reason I'm asking, is because we have a few people on this site whom are Schizophrenics, and suffer from SCHIZ-Anhedonia - if you would happen to be one of them... or if you are one of the people whom have DP/DR-Anhedonia, then KETAMINE WILL F*CK YOU OVER MORE THAN ANYTHING IMAGINABLE!

 

Please, please... don't use Ketamine until you have an informed knowledge about yourself.

 

 

PS: No, as far as I know, there is no place-controlled truly solid trial which proves that oral Ketamine has any true antidepressant or antianhedonic effect - it seems to be mostly narcotic via that route.
 

The only evidence seems to be for intravenous infusion, like for depression.

 

http://www.psypost.o...epression-37570

 

 

Deaden -

I doubt you are a Narcissist... if you have had pleasure before then this is not possible (Pleasure is warm btw). Sociopaths are manipulative... your definitely not that....

 

Stink why do you think Ketamine will make Anhedonia worse?

 

 

I was probably somewhat unclear in my last post - I think it would worsen Depersonalisation and Derealisation, not Anhedonia.

 

The Anhedonia is not always present with DP/DR, and some people only get it after having the disorder for some time - when they start realizing that nothing will ever be real again, and it's all a living, waking dream.

 

Ketamine would probably help them with the anhedonic part, at first, but send them into psychosis or permanently, irreparable DP/DR after a little while.

 

Alright thanks for trying to warn me. I know about DP/DR, I had it two times, once for a couple days, and the second time for a week after bad reactions to drugs that should have never been that bad... The symptoms I experienced were just too different to what I have now, I am convinced I don't have this disorder.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ketamine, anxiety, depression, benzowithdrawal

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users