6 replies to this topic

[VinnyB]

Background info: 22yo, male, no allergies, fit, do exercise with heavy weights 3-4x/wk - have perfect blood pressure etc - overall very healthy

 

I have developed sleep maintenance insomnia (I can go to sleep but have trouble staying asleep and normally awake after 3-4 hours and can't go back to sleep for a few hours) and am unsure of the cause although I believe it may be cannabis-induced. It has happened all of a sudden and has gotten worse over time. The weird thing is throughout this period I have had a week or two at a time where I sleep normally and feel great. I have not done anything different for those two weeks. But it hasn't lasted. I never had sleep problems before even though I had a less healthy lifestyle than I do now. Also this isn't due to stress or anything like that at all. It happens no matter the environment whether it be my apartment by school or home or my uncle's house in Arizona (live in NJ).

 

I believe it is cannabis-induced because my symptoms really started showing up after I ate a brownie from Colorado that was pretty potent (medicinal grade). I took this while I was on a trip to Mexico and the sleeping issues started there. I then was able to get some Mexican strains of weed and that was also very strong and I smoked a good amount of that. This is in late August of last year.

 

The thing is I do not smoke really that often. I started two years ago and smoked maybe once a week or so in the summer and then during the school year not too often, maybe once or twice every few weeks. Nothing like everyday or anything like that. I mostly smoke regular blunts and the only thing out of the ordinary was that brownie and the Mexican weed. I assumed any effects would have worn off by now, but the coincidence of my problems starting and me taking the brownie are too much to ignore.

Last month in hopes of fixing things, I started taking Vitamin D 5k IU, cod liver oil for omega 3, vitamin k2, magnesium, probiotics, and just started a B vitamin complex because I know weed reduces B vitamins and those are needed to regular adrenals which is what I thought I had (adrenal fatigue). Now, I am not so sure after taking B vitamins for a couple of weeks.
 

I was able to get some samples of sleep supplements (GABA, melatonin, 5-htp, L-theanine, cortisol lowering herbs, etc). In the beginning, I had some good success with the GABA but only had a couple days' worth of supply. The insomnia slowly came back though after I finished it and started the other small supplies of supplements I had. The cortisol lowering supplements and the melatonin/5-htp/L-theanine didn't work too well.

Edited by Vincent Barone, 17 March 2016 - 03:21 PM.

[Heisenburger]

The perfect sleep solution:

 

Two milligrams of etizolam

 

One milligram of prazosin

 

Three-quarters of a teaspoon of glycine

 

300 micrograms of melation, dissolved in DMSO and administered transdermally.

 

Sleep like a baby almost every night. I only experience about one nocturnal awakening a month, and it is almost invariably very brief. Since starting this regimen, I have been sleeping normally for essentially the first time in my entire life, as I have had insomnia problems since I was 12 years old. They are completely gone now, and I pray to Og that they never come back. My ability to function as a normal human being is one of the best things that has ever happened to me, and I fervently hope that it is not a transient effect that will eventually disappear with time, as so many medicamentous solutions so often are. But I’ve been at this for over a year now, and it’s still working like a charm. And the best thing is that it costs less than a dollar a day.

[Londonscouser]

Have you tried to abstain for longer periods than a week ?

[gamesguru]

What strikes me is you dont use it very often, like once a week.

Sleep maintenance insomnia is often associated with depression and anxiety[1], and basically these are unfavorable states of serotonergic and GABAergic tone.

While its possible these problems were made worse by cannabis, maybe they were pretty bad to begin with?

Consider stuff like bacopa [5-HT and GABA], magnolia/ginkgo/ginseng [GABA(A) & (B)], more dietary tryptophan/tyrosine

 

According to this study, glutamate, acetylcholine, serotonin also play roles.  Cannabis affects all three, but again, I'm not suggesting its the cause.

 

This study only gives one night for withdrawal, impious!

The MJ group did not show improved sleep after an adaptation night as expected. Withdrawal symptoms, craving, and depression did not appear to influence these findings.

Edited by gamesguru, 19 March 2016 - 06:06 PM.

[VinnyB]

The perfect sleep solution:

 

Two milligrams of etizolam

 

One milligram of prazosin

 

Three-quarters of a teaspoon of glycine

 

300 micrograms of melation, dissolved in DMSO and administered transdermally.

 

Sleep like a baby almost every night. I only experience about one nocturnal awakening a month, and it is almost invariably very brief. Since starting this regimen, I have been sleeping normally for essentially the first time in my entire life, as I have had insomnia problems since I was 12 years old. They are completely gone now, and I pray to Og that they never come back. My ability to function as a normal human being is one of the best things that has ever happened to me, and I fervently hope that it is not a transient effect that will eventually disappear with time, as so many medicamentous solutions so often are. But I’ve been at this for over a year now, and it’s still working like a charm. And the best thing is that it costs less than a dollar a day.

 

For now I would want to try to heal this problem without using drugs.

 

Have you tried to abstain for longer periods than a week ?

 

Most of the time I am not smoking, it is only on occasion. So I have gone many weeks at a time without smoking. As of now it has been 3 weeks since I last smoked, for example.

 

 

What strikes me is you dont use it very often, like once a week.

Sleep maintenance insomnia is often associated with depression and anxiety[1], and basically these are unfavorable states of serotonergic and GABAergic tone.

While its possible these problems were made worse by cannabis, maybe they were pretty bad to begin with?

Consider stuff like bacopa [5-HT and GABA], magnolia/ginkgo/ginseng [GABA(A) & (B)], more dietary tryptophan/tyrosine

 

According to this study, glutamate, acetylcholine, serotonin also play roles.  Cannabis affects all three, but again, I'm not suggesting its the cause.

 

This study only gives one night for withdrawal, impious!

The MJ group did not show improved sleep after an adaptation night as expected. Withdrawal symptoms, craving, and depression did not appear to influence these findings.

 

 

Thanks for the links. I have noticed that with resistant starch and the probiotics I am using, I am getting better sleep. I looked into resistant starch and it does increase GABA, which would go in line with what I said before about the GABA helping me when I took it.

[VinnyB]

I wanted to update this thread and see if anybody had some good info regarding adrenal fatigue. I have tried GABA and 5-HTP as suggested and while I think it has helped a little, it hasn't fixed my sleep-maintenance insomnia.

 

I think I have a mild case of adrenal fatigue. I do not have all the symptoms typically associated with AF but some things like sometimes having a spike of energy at night and having that tired but wired feeling are classic AF, I think. In addition I usually always wake up in 1 1/2 hour increments which is how long a sleep cycle is.

 

In addition, it seems that when I go to the gym my symptoms worsen which means my adrenals are probably fatigued and exercise fatigues them even more. The timeline makes sense because my symptoms started towards the end of summer and during the summer I was going in the gym 4x a week and I noticed that in the summer that I needed more naps and was tired even though I had normal sleep.

 

The thing is I did work out for about a year beforehand and was completely fine. I then took a year off and started again last summer. Perhaps something happened in that year. The only thing that comes to mind is I started smoking marijuana, but as mentioned before I don't smoke very much (once every few weeks) so I'm not sure if that is it. I know I mentioned that brownie before in the original post but perhaps it was just a coincidence that my symptoms started when I had it.

 

I am taking the B vitamins as mentioned before so I don't think a B vitamin deficiency is the cause of it, but rather something else that I am unsure of. My diet is very, very good with plenty of good fats, protein, and good carbs from veggies, potatoes, some rice, and fruit. I do not have caffeine at all and am not stressed at all. I guess I will have to get a saliva test to confirm my cortisol results. I assume I have low cortisol.

 

 

[Kinesis]

I wouldn't know much about your adrenal status but your test results should give you a better idea whether that.is an issue. You do however mention marijuana use as a concern too. Heavy marijuana intake or withdrawal could explain your symptoms, but the occasional moderate use you describe is unlikely to be a problem, especially in the context of your overall good health practices.

The only thing in your story that strikes me as a potential issue is your mention of working out four times a week around the time this started. If more than one or two of these are heavy workouts, it could be that you're not getting enough recovery time. In which case you could try just one or two heavy workouts with any others being light ones. Mercola has a lot of good info on this. Aside from that it looks like you are doing everything right.