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[NewScientist] Just say maybe: Is the world ready to abandon the war on drugs?


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#1 ImmInst

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 06:00 PM


Worldwide drug prohibition has developed some cracks as countries go their own way. New Scientist explores how likely the UN is to relinquish the status quo

View the full article



#2 corb

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

I'm sure drug prohibition is here to stay if not in the USA (let's be serious prohibition in the US isn't going anywhere either) at the very least worldwide.
Just looking at Europe, with a projected 3 fold increase in muslims by 2050 and the resulting increase in conservative voters that will be sprung from that from both Muslims and Christians trying to keep up and even irreligious conservatives becoming more active as a result (those do exist in Europe especially in Eastern Europe) - it's ridiculous to expect drug prohibition to fall.

 

I registered to this "magazine" after your insistent spamming of sjw clickbaity topics and I have to say, it's just as cringeworthy as the news lines implied. A lot of "ethics" with no basis in reality or reason. Their articles on immigration are especially cringe.


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#3 william7

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 07:02 PM

Checkout the The War on Drugs webpage at http://cannabisasmed...rugs/index.html. The House I Live In documentary is most excellent anti-war on drugs documentary I've seen.


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#4 seivtcho

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 07:38 PM

The drugs are extremely dangerous thing. If the war on them is to be abandoned, then nothing good will happen for the mankind. The drug addicts end up as prostitutes, their life is shorter, their quality of life is demonished, their money go away, they stop developing and start degradation.


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#5 william7

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 02:17 PM

The drugs are extremely dangerous thing. If the war on them is to be abandoned, then nothing good will happen for the mankind. The drug addicts end up as prostitutes, their life is shorter, their quality of life is demonished, their money go away, they stop developing and start degradation.

 
But the war on those drugs is even worse. https://lawenforceme...es/drug-policy/. The end of the drug war will bring many good things to mankind - including greater life expectancy. The women and children that end up as prostitutes do so because of the illegality of drugs which drives up their prices making prostitution the only way to make the large sums necessary to afford to use those drugs. Here's another excellent documentary worth watching at https://www.youtube....h?v=XA9Q6nDVR3s. Also see http://cannabisasmed...rugs/index.html.


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#6 seivtcho

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 07:23 PM

Using drugs to treat people is a different thing from the war on drugs. And it is something accepted. For example worldwide currently are allowed morphine injections for pain relief of incurable patients in pain. In many countries, including mine, there are many medications, containing drugs, and they are being prescribed only on a special recepies, that even the most doctors dont have. This is NOT the war against the drugs.

 

The war against the drugs is the war on taking them for lets name it joy. Don't mess up the one with the another, because they are different things. The first is to save lifes and reduce sufferenig, the second is to shorten lifes and to cause suffering. The war on drugs is the war against the second. Against the factory for half-idiots and degradated individuals because of addiction.

 

If the things that you show as arguments are really so, and in the roots of all of these problems from your first link is the war on drugs, then this shows a very serious problem for your society, because it shows, that it is overcrowded of drug addicted idiots. In a normal country with a normal society the war on drugs would not cause these effects:

https://lawenforceme...es/drug-policy/

If your country is like that, then the correct way to stop the degradation and the decomposition of your society is to strenghten the war on drugs and to start healing your drug addicts in the mental hospitals. If you stop the war on drugs in these conditions, then you will end up with the total degradation of your society and you may actually whitness it turning into a useless biomass.


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#7 william7

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 08:40 PM

Actually, it's the war on drugs that's behind drugs being pushed on youth by street gangs for large profits. The recent increases in opioids addiction and overdoses is due to our government and pharmaceutical/medical industry collusion and corruption by increasing the sales of opioids through promotion and advertising campaigns. The Mexican cartels picked up on this and have started making a stronger and cheaper heroin available to those people who are addicted to the pharmaceutical opioids. See The Addiction Conspiracy: How Government and Big Pharma Created an Epidemic, at http://articles.merc..._rid=1591837453.

 

A good example of what ending the war on heroin for a brief period did for a England back in the 1980s read the Junk policy article at https://health.spect...ription-heroin/. Notice how the heroin users stopped stealing, prostituting themselves and selling heroin to support their addictions.

 

You really need to due a serious study of the war on drugs in order see what's really happening and why it's doing more harm than good. The War on Drugs, at http://cannabisasmed...rugs/index.html, is a good place to start.



Edited by william7, 10 April 2017 - 08:42 PM.

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#8 pamojja

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:28 PM

I know one thing for sure. All those friends of my youth who died from overdose would still be alive and contributing to society if it wouldn't have forced them underground. All died of uncontrollable potencies or additives which a black market brings. Or suicide to get out of this vicious cycle.

 

As one of them put it: You have to get criminal for being able to afford the black market prices. And he really had a really very well paid job. Before his overdose he made really stupid things, like robing the bank in the village he lived in..

 

The US stopped that vicious cycle with alcohol - we would also be able to stop it the next day with illegal drugs. All the overdoses, suicides, violence from drug-related crime, or jail-sentences for being addicted. Hell, a gram of heroin could be as cheap to be had as 1 buck from pharmacies, and in controlled quality with less side-effects than many available prescription drugs. Portugal has shown it is possible and would come with benefits for all concerned.

 

Humans are so irrational. It's hopeless. For ideology they are ready to sacrifice their own children.


Edited by pamojja, 10 April 2017 - 10:29 PM.

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#9 william7

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:01 AM

Glad to hear you understand how the war on drugs destroys individuals, families and society. Portugal is really headed in the right direction. Have you seen Portugal ends war on drugs and decriminalizes all drug use?

 


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#10 seivtcho

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:22 AM

Still the drug addicted will turn into useless crap. And still if you legalize it, your entire country will turn into a large incubator for useless biomass.


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#11 pamojja

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 12:38 PM

And still if you legalize it, your entire country will turn into a large incubator for useless biomass.

 

Wow, the last time such lack of respect for human dignity lead to the second world war and gassing of countless 'useless biomass' and endless suffering for all concerned.

 

And the only country having legalized all drugs proves just the opposite.

 

 


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#12 sthira

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:22 PM

Still the drug addicted will turn into useless crap. And still if you legalize it, your entire country will turn into a large incubator for useless biomass.


Disappointing comments such as this need to be reproached, as Pamojja has stepped up to do. What you've written is not only morally reprehensible it's factually wrong.

Before you marginalize people in pain and distress, please educate yourself. In Switzerland, for example, if you're a heroin addict, you're assigned to a clinic, and you're given heroin, for free, where you use it supervised by a doctor or nurse. You are given support as you struggle to turn your life around, find a job, and decent housing.

Since Switzerland faced facts and established humane political policies regarding people caught up in physiological addiction -- people just as fragile and heartbroken as yourself -- tell us how many Swiss heroin users became useless crap? Tell us how Switzerland has turned into a nation that's now a large incubator for useless biomass?

Seivtcho, addiction is not caused by drugs; addiction is caused by people in pain and distress who must negotiate a medical system that appears primarily interested in profits.

Furthermore, most people who use drugs don't become addicts or useless biomass.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/19515516/
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#13 seivtcho

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 08:46 PM

Don't worry :) My desire is not to kill out the drug addicts in some sort of a WWII scenario. My oppinion for the correct path is to heal the addicted and stop the usage of drugs for enjoyment, and thus both to prevent making people useless and to turn the useless addicts into usefull members of the society.



#14 sthira

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:10 PM

Don't worry :) My desire is not to kill out the drug addicts in some sort of a WWII scenario. My oppinion for the correct path is to heal the addicted and stop the usage of drugs for enjoyment, and thus both to prevent making people useless and to turn the useless addicts into usefull members of the society.


That's good to know. You're a longtime poster to this site like I am, and I've enjoyed and respected your views. This one upset me, though, so I responded emotionally. My sister ODed a few months ago after a lifelong battle with addiction, so I'm still slightly raw and sad.

But I will assert that most people who play around recreationally with illicit drugs don't become addicts (at least according to the "science" which I agree is often suspect). And we're also as a species facing a worldwide prescription drug epidemic. Meanwhile, I still hold onto the belief that experimenting with hallucinogenics is part of what it means to grow up as a kid in a healthy society. But of course "healthy society" what's that?

Meanwhile, the war on drugs and harsh sentences given to addicts remains racist and deeply flawed.

#15 seivtcho

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 06:31 AM

My condolescences for your sister

 

For not becomming addicted to me has to start from the prophylactics. You know, that drugs lead to degradation, so DON'T START using it.

 

If you are addicted - treatment - start treating - in the mental hospitals if necessary. Everything else is worse.

 

And finally for the drug dealers - harsh sentences.

 

So, in the long run

I am still for the war on drugs.


Edited by seivtcho, 12 April 2017 - 06:45 AM.

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#16 william7

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:17 AM

My desire is not to kill out the drug addicts in some sort of a WWII scenario

 

 

In a military, police state like ours, this is a possible outcome. Look at what is already occurring in the Philippines according to Human Rights Watch. See The Killing Squads: Inside the Philippines’ ‘War on Drugs’, at https://www.hrw.org/...pines-war-drugs.

 



#17 pamojja

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 11:08 AM

And finally for the drug dealers - harsh sentences.

 

So, in the long run

I am still for the war on drugs.

 

Criminalization causes an overly providable black market, uncontrolled potencies, additives - and as a result unnecessary death of the still addicted. Decriminalization and none of that unnecessary suffering results.

 

You're just propagating the status quo - and with that thousands of needless deaths. One day maybe one of your own relatives might be affected.

 

If I made the law I would only punish those who caused all these needless deaths: the responsible lawmakers and ignorant guys who supported so many preventable deaths.


Edited by pamojja, 12 April 2017 - 11:15 AM.


#18 seivtcho

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 01:16 PM

 

My desire is not to kill out the drug addicts in some sort of a WWII scenario

 

 

In a military, police state like ours, this is a possible outcome. Look at what is already occurring in the Philippines according to Human Rights Watch. See The Killing Squads: Inside the Philippines’ ‘War on Drugs’, at https://www.hrw.org/...pines-war-drugs.

 

 

????

What the heck are you talking about? US is a military police state? I thought, that you live in a democracy, in which human rights are the first. Military police state in a capitalistic country means military dictature. 

 

In the Philipines video I didnt see the evidences, that the killed havent been really drug lords and pushers for kkkkkkhhhhhhhhhhhhu.

Killing the drug lords is really too much for them, because they now know, that they will loose their lifes if they continue to sell drugs. And since they are incapapble of fighting with the regular police and the regular army, they may have started to whip that loud through the Human Rights Watch, and to produce different fake evidences for prooving that "innocent" people are being killed just like that from the police.


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#19 seivtcho

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 01:25 PM

 

And finally for the drug dealers - harsh sentences.

 

So, in the long run

I am still for the war on drugs.

 

Criminalization causes an overly providable black market, uncontrolled potencies, additives - and as a result unnecessary death of the still addicted. Decriminalization and none of that unnecessary suffering results.

 

You're just propagating the status quo - and with that thousands of needless deaths. One day maybe one of your own relatives might be affected.

 

If I made the law I would only punish those who caused all these needless deaths: the responsible lawmakers and ignorant guys who supported so many preventable deaths.

 

 

Why why why

 

In my country the drugs are criminalized !

 

Why the police didnt come to kill me just like that while I am at home?

Why am I not addicted?

Why I dont sell drugs to get to the black market?

Why noone from my relatives are not addicted?

Why only the criminals whip for being "maltreated" from the police?

 

uh? Why?



#20 pamojja

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:01 PM

Why why why
 
In my country the drugs are criminalized !
 
Why the police didnt come to kill me just like that while I am at home?
Why am I not addicted?
Why I dont sell drugs to get to the black market?
Why noone from my relatives are not addicted?
Why only the criminals whip for being "maltreated" from the police?
 
uh? Why?

 
Nobody here whips for being maltreated from police. We mourn the numerous friends, relatives dying from this disastrous ideological war. We are asking if there are enough people who take the responsibility and change that inhuman law for improving the situation: the addicts, their relatives, those suffering drug-related crimes, the police too, who got more time to go after serious criminals.

 

 

This guy traveled 30000 miles to get answers
 
https://www.ted.com/...iction_is_wrong



#21 seivtcho

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 05:18 PM

And why that numerous people - friends, relatives and others, are dying from this disastrous ideological war? Why am I not dying from it?

 

My oppinion is that I'm not, because I am not neither a dealer, nor an user.

 

Then there come more questions - for the drug users - if the drugs were allowed, how fast they will move from single event drug user to addicted; would that protect the drug addicts from dying from overdosage or from drug usage complications?

How many people will become the new addicted, because of the legalisation?

 

For the drug dealers - how conscious selling of provenly dangerous substances leading to personal degradation and death woud be legal? The aim of the law is to protect you, not to push you in the trap.


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#22 pamojja

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 06:02 PM

See the video above. And you'll understand that once it's decriminalized and aid given to former addicts, their percentage has fallen from 1% heroin addicts in Portugal to 0,5% in a few years - that's a 50% improvement! There are less overdoses, less drug-related crimes, LESS ADDICTS, more income for the state through taxation (like it is from alcohol now), less jail-inhabitant which cost a lot. And there nobody wants to go back to the old system because all the benefits of decriminalization have become obvious to the most dumb.

 

You have no guarantee that in the future it could not also hid one of your relatives or your own future child.


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#23 william7

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 07:08 PM

 

 

My desire is not to kill out the drug addicts in some sort of a WWII scenario

 

 

In a military, police state like ours, this is a possible outcome. Look at what is already occurring in the Philippines according to Human Rights Watch. See The Killing Squads: Inside the Philippines’ ‘War on Drugs’, at https://www.hrw.org/...pines-war-drugs.

 

 

????

What the heck are you talking about? US is a military police state? I thought, that you live in a democracy, in which human rights are the first. Military police state in a capitalistic country means military dictature. 

 

In the Philipines video I didnt see the evidences, that the killed havent been really drug lords and pushers for kkkkkkhhhhhhhhhhhhu.

Killing the drug lords is really too much for them, because they now know, that they will loose their lifes if they continue to sell drugs. And since they are incapapble of fighting with the regular police and the regular army, they may have started to whip that loud through the Human Rights Watch, and to produce different fake evidences for prooving that "innocent" people are being killed just like that from the police.

 

 

I can tell you're a young person with a poor knowledge of history and a limited understanding of politics.


 


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#24 seivtcho

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 07:22 PM

Young or not, obviously I am very dumb, not only because a limited understanding of politics, but also because I still don't believe in the benefits of decriminalization of the drugs, that have become obvious to the most dumb :) I confes myself dumber than them, and I add, that I am plus dumb enough never to start using drugs !!!! and dumb enough to teach my future child never to use them !!!!

 

"In my 30 years carrier I haven't seen a truly and a fully recovered addict"

The oppinion of a medical doctor, psychiatrist, who treats addictions. Including with metodes to socialise them back with the love of their relatives.


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#25 pamojja

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:02 PM

If you stop the war on drugs in these conditions, then you will end up with the total degradation of your society and you may actually whitness it turning into a useless biomass.

 
 
After repeat I reported these two of your posts to the moderators here at LongeCity:
 

Still the drug addicted will turn into useless crap. And still if you legalize it, your entire country will turn into a large incubator for useless biomass.

 
Indicating the promotion of the Nazi-perspective of 'unworthy life'. And..
 

In the Philipines video I didnt see the evidences, that the killed havent been really drug lords and pushers for kkkkkkhhhhhhhhhhhhu.
Killing the drug lords is really too much for them, because they now know, that they will loose their lifes if they continue to sell drugs. And since they are incapapble of fighting with the regular police and the regular army, they may have started to whip that loud through the Human Rights Watch, and to produce different fake evidences for prooving that "innocent" people are being killed just like that from the police.

 
Praising the murdering of alleged drug dealers without fair trails, which is nothing than the praise of murder, and therefore straight forward hate-speech.
 
 
However, only one moderator, replied upon my second report:
 

I did not see anything that violates the forum rules or user agreement.

 

In this case - allowing the open promotion of hate speech - I can't support LongeCity any further with my contributions. This will be my last post here. By to everyone.



#26 seivtcho

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:11 PM

Neither I promote Nazi nor I use straight forward hate-speech.



#27 Mind

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:26 PM

Okay, I have to comment now.

 

If you are going to comment in a political discussion, you should be prepared for heated debate and what you might think are "obnoxious" opinions.

 

To be clear, seivtcho has not said he WANTS "people to be degraded and useless" (just predicting that it will happen), nor has he "praised" the violence in the Philippines (just not sure of the evidence that innocent people are being killed). He has not been using ad hominem attacks against anyone else in this thread.

 

You might think his opinion is misguided or "dumb". The best way to counter this is to provide evidence to the contrary. Which many people in this thread have done. Great job.

 

For the record, I too think the drug wars promote needless violence/death and are very counter-productive. I will keep arguing for more humane policy. I hope everyone else will as well.



#28 william7

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:21 PM

Good call mind! I wouldn't call seivtcho dumb by a long shot. I hope pamojja reconsiders and stays with us.

 

#29 sthira

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 11:46 PM

In this case - allowing the open promotion of hate speech - I can't support LongeCity any further with my contributions. This will be my last post here. By to everyone.

That sucks, I'm sorry to see you go. Go in peace, brother Pamojja, I've enjoyed your writing over the past years.

सतां हि सन्देहपदेषु वस्तुषु
प्रमाणमन्तकरण प्रवृत्तयः

Edited by sthira, 12 April 2017 - 11:47 PM.

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#30 seivtcho

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:03 PM

Obviously I am the reason pamojja to go out from the forum. To tell the true that depressed me a bit.

 

I also hope (s)he to reconsider and rejoin. The more people thinking in one direction, themetter the chance for immortality.






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