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[NewScientist] Just say maybe: Is the world ready to abandon the war on drugs?


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#31 pamojja

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 08:32 PM

Obviously I am the reason pamojja to go out from the forum.

 

No seivtcho, it's not you or your opinions, rest assured. It's about how this was handled after reporting repeated hate-speech, which I can't agree with. Also would be the first to speak up against censorship. Different perspectives are the life-blood for learning and growing as community too. However, hate-speech - obviously something still to vague and not well defined here - can only create adversity. And we're back full cycle it's historically allegedly meant for: divide and rule. In my eyes there are just too many important ramification for our open society, and life-extension without the former would be a true night-mare I wouldn't want to participate in.
 

To be clear, seivtcho has not said he WANTS "people to be degraded and useless" (just predicting that it will happen), nor has he "praised" the violence in the Philippines (just not sure of the evidence that innocent people are being killed). He has not been using ad hominem attacks against anyone else in this thread.

 

Thanks for chiming in, for explaining the decision and for being open for a dialog about this.

Hate-speakers, for example the last presidential candidate to my country who almost won, Norbert Hofer (if you understand German you can google for videos of his speeches) rarely allow his intentions shine through (..trained in NLP, by the way), for not being caught red-handed.
 
One place where I regularly have to deal with is in one of my jobs at a Homeless emergency shelter. All minorities, people with alcohol, drugs, psychological, refugee background or various mixture of these, use our services. We try to give them a bid of normalcy in the evening, while they all have to deal with various levels of discrimination in their everyday life on streets. But some of them, through their live-circumstances, are really tensed up. One word and they easily get violent. However, some other take advantage of such vulnerability and drop such a word  -where no personal bad intentions could be proven - to have their recipient, having no other resources to counter such hate-speech, but to physically beat back. And therefore having to leave the house. If I've got the slightest indication of this having been going on, the hate-speaker has to leave for the night too.

 

(And @seivtcho, if you knew what some of them went through already as children, I believe you would view it a bid differentiated too)

That's the principle with which hate-speech works: no bad intention can be proven, but it surely effective in causing severe distress.

Of course, since it's already so prevalent in main-stream society and media some might really unintentionally repeat such phrases and think nothing bad by repeating. However, just a PM pointing out would help to have it avoid in future.

Some definitions from wikipedia:
 

..is speech which attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as..

..as speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it incites violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected group, or individual..

A website which uses hate speech may be called a hate site.

..expressions allow minorities to be categorized with negative attributes tied to them, and are directly harmful to them. Matsuda et al. (1993)[9] found that racist speech could cause in the recipient of the message direct physical and emotional changes. The repeated use of such expressions cause and reinforce the subordination of these minorities.

 

Also here it seem to me, none of these definitions give any weight to the intention of the promoter - and in my opinion should not be censored, but just notified - but the hurtful speech in itself. It's the effects it has on member of minorities which defines it.

Hopefully this incident raises a bit more awareness about hate-speech and it's dangerous implications. In hopes of improvements I'll be watching and not leaving yet.
 

Thanks to everyone being welcoming.


Edited by pamojja, 13 April 2017 - 08:41 PM.


#32 william7

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 09:54 PM

????

What the heck are you talking about? US is a military police state? I thought, that you live in a democracy, in which human rights are the first. Military police state in a capitalistic country means military dictature.

 

 

Read The Biggest Threat to American Public Safety Is the American Police State and 'We are in a police state right now'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#33 seivtcho

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:45 AM

@pamojja

 

man you raised me to the level of a propaganda master :) lol.

 

I think, that the site moderators do thier job fine. They aready explained you why you were not correct.

I don't think, that the site holds hate-speech against any minorities. In the many topics in the forum, I saw none.

 

Simply cool down man.

 

What I will try is to scan my future posting for unintentional situation of "no bad intention can be proven" :)


Edited by seivtcho, 14 April 2017 - 11:46 AM.

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#34 seivtcho

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:55 AM

 

????

What the heck are you talking about? US is a military police state? I thought, that you live in a democracy, in which human rights are the first. Military police state in a capitalistic country means military dictature.

 

 

Read The Biggest Threat to American Public Safety Is the American Police State and 'We are in a police state right now'.

 

 

Wow, that was depressive. I think that simmilar things may currently happen in my country either. It would be completely possible.



#35 william7

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:20 AM

I believe ending the war on drugs with better health care, better education, and progress towards true democracy could give us in the United States a chance at obtaining improvements in living conditions along the lines of Portugal and Norway where they far more humaner law enforcement practices. Have you seen Michael Moore's trips to Norway?

 

 

 



#36 seivtcho

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:24 PM

The positive things from these videos are not connected with the drugs.

 

The drug addictions destroy the will and turn the human into ... I dont know how to name it in order not to abuse. The good word for useless.

 

If you do the drugs massively, many people will become like that and the final result will be a large useess society.


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#37 pamojja

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:39 PM

I dont know how to name it in order not to abuse. The good word for ..

 

You mean they become like the elderly, the chronic ill, the disabled, the analphabets, refuges without perspectives, or children before they grew up?

 

Remember Portugal again. They found continuing criminalization of drugs kept the rate at 1% heroin addicts of the whole population. That's already a massive rate, without evidence it would have grown much further.

 

Decriminalization was able to reduce this by 50% in a few years down to 0.5% heroin addicts in the whole population. If this impressive cut in heroin addiction of 50% in a few years - making half of their countries heroin addicts productive members of society again, doesn't convince you of decriminalization. Than nothing will.
 


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#38 seivtcho

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:39 PM

There is no what to be argued about. The drug addicts are personality degradated. They are socially finished. They are incapable of working. That is the fact, want it or not. They cant be expected workking at the same effort, commitment, time, and quality like the non-drug addicted. And the drug addicts surely will become more after the drugs are allowed.

 

Imagine hundreds more places like the one you work.

 

In my country the drugs are against the law, and the number of drug addicts hasn't skyrocketed.

 

If in some country the drug addicts grow in number despite the war on drugs, then this could be because the drugs and the drug mafia are winning.


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#39 william7

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:57 PM

People are recovering from alcohol and drug addiction all the time this country. Just attend a few Alcoholic Anonymous and Narcotic Anonymous meetings and you'll hear stories of recovery. The solution is not in turning them into criminals and punishing them, but instead teaching them a better way of living.


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#40 sthira

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:02 AM

People are recovering from alcohol and drug addiction all the time this country. Just attend a few Alcoholic Anonymous and Narcotic Anonymous meetings and you'll hear stories of recovery. The solution is not in turning them into criminals and punishing them, but instead teaching them a better way of living.


Yes, another disease misunderstood by the unaffected (and those who remain unaffected are increasingly unicornic -- since we've tens of millions of prescription drug addicts).

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#41 william7

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:50 AM

 

People are recovering from alcohol and drug addiction all the time this country. Just attend a few Alcoholic Anonymous and Narcotic Anonymous meetings and you'll hear stories of recovery. The solution is not in turning them into criminals and punishing them, but instead teaching them a better way of living.


Yes, another disease misunderstood by the unaffected (and those who remain unaffected are increasingly unicornic -- since we've tens of millions of prescription drug addicts).

 

 

The unaffected are increasingly unicornic? I'm not sure I understand your terminology here. Are you saying those people who have no religious beliefs are less likely to be affected by drug addiction?
 


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