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GABA upregulation - downregulated GABA receptors

gaba a gaba b phenibut ghb receptor upregulation pea kava kava phenibut

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#1 Justchill

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 09:16 AM


Hi,

 

as a frequent phenibut user for anxiety, I'm wondering if there is a way to reduce tolerance and withdrawal? How could you safely upregulate your GABA(-B) receptors. Doing some research I've found these supplements might help doing this:

 

- cafeïne

- theanine

- PEA (gaba b antagonist)

- bacopa

- kava kava (upregulate gaba receptors)

- fasoracetam (gaba b antagonist)

 

Maybe this is the cure for my anxiety (upregulating gaba receptors)

How long would it take for these to take effect?

 

My goal is to use phenibut more frequently without withdrawal/tolerance issues. (Don't say to use it only twice per week, I know that.)

 

Please discuss.

 


Edited by Justchill, 25 April 2016 - 09:19 AM.


#2 sativa

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:04 PM

Theanine seems like a good long term option:

Theanine gives the same effect as phenibut, but instead of through agonism it's through antagonism so it can be taken every day without tolerance.

Theanine blocks mGlu1, which is coupled with GABA-B. So by antagonizing and upregulating mGlu1, it upregulates GABA-B.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2726695/

The GABA-B upregulation happens after theanine wears off.


Edited by sativa, 25 April 2016 - 02:04 PM.


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#3 Junk Master

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 10:47 PM

You know what I just found out works very well-- Agamatine Sulfate.  Easy to get and relatively cheap too.



#4 sativa

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 11:07 PM

Agmatine is nice, I've never used it in public for anti anxiety purposes though but its great in combination with other things.

Skullcap is another interesting one. DRI, GABA and BDNF activity!

#5 Justchill

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:22 AM

You know what I just found out works very well-- Agamatine Sulfate.  Easy to get and relatively cheap too.

 

That seems like a bodybuilding supp to give you greater pumps. I don't see how this would help with anxiety or upregulate GABA receptors?



#6 sativa

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 09:49 AM

You know what I just found out works very well-- Agamatine Sulfate. Easy to get and relatively cheap too.


That seems like a bodybuilding supp to give you greater pumps. I don't see how this would help with anxiety or upregulate GABA receptors?

Look deeper into its mode of action. There's NMDA antagonsism and some serotonin activity too.

Bodybuilders are just one group who have a use for it.

#7 Junk Master

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:57 PM

Best thing is you don't need to use it in the amounts bodybuilders do, which can cause gastric distress, and well, flatulence.   I feel a noticeable effect combining it with either the occasional dose of Phenibut, or Modafinil at 500mg.


Oh, Sativa is right.  It's not really much use on it's own.  Best with other anxiolytics or stims.



#8 sativa

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:29 PM

Best thing is you don't need to use it in the amounts bodybuilders do, which can cause gastric distress, and well, flatulence. I feel a noticeable effect combining it with either the occasional dose of Phenibut, or Modafinil at 500mg.

Oh, Sativa is right. It's not really much use on it's own. Best with other anxiolytics or stims.


I gather it has opioid and cannabinoid potentiating properties.

Also, it's NMDA antagonsism (and alpha 7 acetylcholine antagonsism I think too) can be useful to reduce withdrawal symptoms or tolerance, similarly to how memantine is sometimes used.

#9 Junk Master

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:35 PM

Plus, thanks to bodybuilders, it's all over the place.  



#10 normalizing

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:43 PM

ive done agmatine few times and i noticed a bit of a calm feeling at really large doses which kind of makes it useless long term. also as mentioned, its best combined with other stuff to work best by itself you either need really large doses or just no doses at all will help with an effect. also, i got sick of its putrid smell of semen....



#11 sativa

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 10:13 PM

Semen smell? Was it the sulphate form you had? I use it sublingualy and find it has a tolerable but unpleasant taste.

But back on topic -

Uridine could be of use for the OP, iirc it normalises dopamine function and also has GABA and NMDA activity

#12 Justchill

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 10:30 PM

I've tried uridine, I indeed gives a DA lift.. but not for restoring gaba receptors.

 

Till what amount can you upregalute your recepters? Can you combat social anx like this?

 

Next to try for me is theanine and fasoracetam.

 

I've also order afozole for anxiety (russ noot)



#13 normalizing

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 02:50 AM

sulfate form i think cannot really recall. 

 

about uridine, how can you feel its dopamine effect? ive done it but i am not sure it does much for dopamine. its more like sedative to me

 

anyway, justchill when you start those substances you have planned, please do tell how it is going with them as i am curious



#14 Keizo

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:38 AM

I have used glycine quite a lot and I believe for me it works quite well both during the day and night to cause a calming effect. You can take many grams I believe, I take maybe 5 at a time.



#15 Justchill

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 10:23 AM

Wanted to add here: ETIZOLAM

 

This seems to upregulate A2 receptors and does not downregulate A1 receptors according to some thread on the internet with studies included. Also a anxiolytic, but a little bit too sedating at higher dosages. Very good for sleep!


At this moment I'm trying all substances to see how they can help my anxiety long term. Short term I only see kava kava as a solution.



#16 Strelok

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:28 AM

Wanted to add here: ETIZOLAM

 

This seems to upregulate A2 receptors and does not downregulate A1 receptors according to some thread on the internet with studies included. Also a anxiolytic, but a little bit too sedating at higher dosages. Very good for sleep!


At this moment I'm trying all substances to see how they can help my anxiety long term. Short term I only see kava kava as a solution.

 

Are there any GABA receptors/subunits that etizolam does downregulate?
 



#17 normalizing

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 12:26 PM

isnt etizolam addictive?



#18 sativa

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 01:02 PM

Are there any GABA receptors/subunits that etizolam does downregulate?

From wikipedia:

Etizolam acts as a full agonist at the benzodiazepine receptor to produce its range of therapeutic and adverse effects.[16]
...
In addition, etizolam, unlike most benzodiazepines (some of which can increase levels of estradiol), has prolactogenic effects, leading to an increase in blood levels of prolactin.[18]

Full agonist at the benzodiazepine receptor! This doesn't sound very sustainable or desirable due to receptor down regulation...

Also, increasing prolactin will likely lower dopamine levels (perhaps somewhat counteracted by benzo properties) so that's something to be weary of.


Etizolam does NOT seem like a good idea IMO...

Edited by sativa, 24 May 2016 - 01:04 PM.


#19 normalizing

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 01:31 PM

ok let ME try now, i think i found quite the sweet prince here; https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Metadoxine

 

tell me this one doesnt sound sweet? now tell me if its even possible to find it anywhere!


Edited by normalizing, 24 May 2016 - 01:32 PM.


#20 Justchill

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 02:18 PM

 

Are there any GABA receptors/subunits that etizolam does downregulate?

From wikipedia:

Etizolam acts as a full agonist at the benzodiazepine receptor to produce its range of therapeutic and adverse effects.[16]
...
In addition, etizolam, unlike most benzodiazepines (some of which can increase levels of estradiol), has prolactogenic effects, leading to an increase in blood levels of prolactin.[18]

Full agonist at the benzodiazepine receptor! This doesn't sound very sustainable or desirable due to receptor down regulation...

Also, increasing prolactin will likely lower dopamine levels (perhaps somewhat counteracted by benzo properties) so that's something to be weary of.


Etizolam does NOT seem like a good idea IMO...

 

 

wikipedia says it does not downregulate a1 (benzo) receptors:

 

Abrupt or rapid withdrawal from etizolam, as with benzodiazepines, may result in the appearance of the benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, including rebound insomnia.[9]Neuroleptic malignant syndrome, a rare event in benzodiazepine withdrawal, has been documented in a case of abrupt withdrawal from etizolam.[10]

In a study that compared the effectiveness of etizolam, alprazolam, and bromazepam for the treatment of generalized anxiety disorder, all three drugs retained their effectiveness over 2 weeks, but etizolam became more effective from 2 weeks to 4 weeks, a type of reverse tolerance.[11] Administering .5 mg etizolam twice daily did not induce cognitive deficits over 3 weeks when compared to placebo.[12]

When multiple doses of etizolam, or lorazepam, were administered to rat neurons, lorazepam caused downregulation of alpha-1 benzodiazepine binding sites (tolerance/dependence), while etizolam caused an increase in alpha-2 benzodiazepine binding sites (reverse tolerance to anti-anxiety effects).[13] Tolerance to the anticonvulsant effects of lorazepam was observed, but no significant tolerance to the anticonvulsant effects of etizolam was observed.[13] Etizolam therefore has a reduced liability to induce tolerance, and dependence, compared with classic benzodiazepines.[13]

 



#21 normalizing

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 09:23 PM

mines better



#22 Justchill

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 10:08 AM

AFOBAZOLE

 

Fabomotizole is an anxiolytic drug developed in the beginning of 2000s by the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences. The goal of researchers at that time was to create a selective anxiolytic agent that would not have the adverse effects of benzodiazepams. In the open studies, the drug appeared to be as effective for the treatment of generalized anxiety disorder as diazepame, while causing significantly fewer side effects. The producers of the drug claim that it stabilizes and upregulates GABA and benzodizepame receptors, exhibits neuroprotective properties, and diminishes anxiety and tensions in the body. The drug is designed above all for people with asthenic personal traits such as emotianal lability, e.g. tendency to react emotionally to stressful situations.

Fabomotizole is used in Russia to treat the following symptoms:

 

Does anybody know where to get this in Europe?


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#23 normalizing

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:28 PM

its russian, therefore errm... russia?



#24 Strelok

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 05:54 PM

AFOBAZOLE

 

 

Sounds like something that I could really use.  If somebody knows a source for this Afabzole, please share.
 



#25 Justchill

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:44 AM

Russia is not a EU country.

However here is a non-EU shop I will try :

 

https://cosmicnootro.../pages/about-us



#26 tolerant

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 10:51 PM

Sounds like something that I could really use.  If somebody knows a source for this Afabzole, please share.

 

http://extrapharmacy...arch=afobazole 

 

I've ordered from them a number of times, never had a problem. Their prices are generally the cheapest.

 

Other options are:

 

http://rupharma.com/afobazol/

 

http://awakebrain.com/afobazol.html

 

When I tried it while living in Russia, it used to give me an artificial high shortly after ingestion that lasted for about 1-2 hours. It felt artificial, but I didn't mind it. At that time I had mild depression/anxiety. It was prescribed to me together with mirtazapine, in addition to sertraline which I was already taking at that time. Then what happened is that for the first time in my life I had what I can only describe as a "manic" thought. I was going for a legal job and had a serious thought that at the interview I was going to tell them that I'm the best lawyer in the world. Maybe I had a few more thoughts like that but I can't recall now. This thought scared the shit out of me and I dropped both mirtazapine and Afobazole and never had a recurrence of such thoughts.

 

A few year later,  I ordered it online to treat severe anxiety and it didn't do anything at all for me despite several attempts and increased dosage. 


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#27 normalizing

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 06:20 PM

Russia is not a EU country.

However here is a non-EU shop I will try :

 

https://cosmicnootro.../pages/about-us

 

tell me how this one works for you as it is also not located in eu but US



#28 normalizing

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 06:27 PM

 

Sounds like something that I could really use.  If somebody knows a source for this Afabzole, please share.

 

http://extrapharmacy...arch=afobazole 

 

I've ordered from them a number of times, never had a problem. Their prices are generally the cheapest.

 

Other options are:

 

http://rupharma.com/afobazol/

 

http://awakebrain.com/afobazol.html

 

When I tried it while living in Russia, it used to give me an artificial high shortly after ingestion that lasted for about 1-2 hours. It felt artificial, but I didn't mind it. At that time I had mild depression/anxiety. It was prescribed to me together with mirtazapine, in addition to sertraline which I was already taking at that time. Then what happened is that for the first time in my life I had what I can only describe as a "manic" thought. I was going for a legal job and had a serious thought that at the interview I was going to tell them that I'm the best lawyer in the world. Maybe I had a few more thoughts like that but I can't recall now. This thought scared the shit out of me and I dropped both mirtazapine and Afobazole and never had a recurrence of such thoughts.

 

A few year later,  I ordered it online to treat severe anxiety and it didn't do anything at all for me despite several attempts and increased dosage. 

 

 

 

tolerant are you in US right now and do you think extrapharmacy ships here reliably?
 



#29 medievil

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 06:51 PM

Bacopa doesnt upregulate gaba, thats nonesense spread by "scienceguy"



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#30 Strelok

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 02:24 AM

 

Sounds like something that I could really use.  If somebody knows a source for this Afabzole, please share.

 

http://extrapharmacy...arch=afobazole 

 

I've ordered from them a number of times, never had a problem. Their prices are generally the cheapest.

 

Other options are:

 

...

 

Thanks!


 







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