13 replies to this topic

[comeback]

Enough is enough,

this will probably be my last extensive try to get rid of this shit.

 

I've suffered from drug induced Depersonalization (F48.1) since early 2013, making it 3 years and counting.

Below you'll find a summation of my symptoms, medical history, tests, meds and onset.

 

I need all help I can get to construct a realistic approach plan.

Which tests should I get? what meds should I try? In what order?

Any advice is of highest value.

 

My main idea is to firstly rule out any other condition that may be contributing to my symptoms.

And I think the best way to do that is to approach the non DPD symptoms.

 

 

Symptoms

• Classic DPD symptoms, brain fog, apathy, alienation etc etc
• Fatigue
• Weird brain sensations; cold water pouring on top of head, tingling, burning
• brain pressure, switching sides
• Concentrated headaches
• Sensitive to busy patterns (this one became especially apparent after illness)
• Slurred speech
• Jumping over words when writing, need to double check spelling of simple words

 

Pre illness (<2013):

overall good health(mentally and physically)
Occactional drug absue (~ 4 times a month)

BMI, little less than normal

insomnia

mild fatigue

poor nasal breathing (deviated septum)

stiff neck

 

Tests:

Various blood tests (unsure which, will ask for them however):

Low folate levels

Pollen allergies:

Grass

CT-brain, MR Brain:

Fully normal, except a mild enlargement of right lateral ventricle

EEG:

Slowing in left temporal lobe on 2 of 3 occasions

ADHD:

I recently did an ADHD test which will be investigated further into, likely that I suffer from ADD hence the Ritalin. It's also quite possible that ADD has been there prior to illness.

 

 

Meds tried (in order):

Atarax

Zyprexa

sertralin

Tegretol

Lamotrige + Fluoxetine

Lamotrigne + Escitalopram

Lamotrigne + Lithium

Lamotrigne alone

Lamotrigne + Ritalin (current)

 

All medicines were fully tested at their effective dose for prescribed time. 

I'm actually not sure why I'm still on Lamotrigine, I'm going to cut it off soon.

 

None of the above medicines have given any significant relief.

Also tried CBT, yoga, exercising, eating healthy, sleeping well - brain fog is still killing me.

 

 

Onset:

Due to restlessness, insomnia etc:

I had been experimenting with synthetic  cannabinoids for some days (~3).

Until that one time I took too much -> extreme panic attack.

Most effects of the drug wore off during the day however, expectedly, I felt like shit for the next few days.

~3 days after intoxication I got this dull feeling of being high, light headed. For the moment it was pleasant, but when it didn't ware off it became hell and til this day it still is.

 

 

 

My strongest appreciation belongs to you,

thanks for reading!

 

Edited by comeback, 04 May 2016 - 11:55 PM.

[SFX]

I have found 200mg of Rhodiola and mega dose of Ginkgo helpful, in other words MAOi & NRI. I had one clear window throughout the whole last year, it was like a magic. Now, I'm trying to replicate that. Also, you have to convince yourself it will work, put faith in herbs, being happy that started new regime, etc. Without placebo and attitude it would be hard to jump out of this hell hole. 

 

Last but not least exercising focus and relaxation. Shorly after my derealization occured I was able to force myself percept reality accurately, now it's gone. I was lazy, that's another story. It's a really hard mental workout, if you aren't tired trying to focus properly you're doing it wrong. Stuff like breaking toxic thoughts patterns, controlling trash-thoughts on the loose etc. is important also. Couch potatoes would rot.

 

Edit: You could try also ADAPT-232 from Swedish Herbal Institute.

 

 

Edited by SFX, 05 May 2016 - 07:57 AM.

[DaneV]

Are you having anxiety problems aswell ?

[Meggo]

Try modafinil.

 

Try getting enlightened, it is like complete association and will destroy your symptoms.

 

 

[comeback]

Thanks for the advises!

 

Can't claim I have any anxiety at all, it is as if the brain fog / depersonalization is killing it all for me.

 

I will see if I can get Modafinil perscribed. I have some NAC on its way as well.

Naltrexone is another possibility that I will discuss with my MD.

 

When it comes to diagnosing, any clue on what tests I should ask for?

 

Thanks once again!

 

[SFX]

My latest discovery is Bacopa 50%, it really boost awarness. I'm going to stack it with Gotu Kola and Ginko, will report eventually. Have the same problem - derealized for a year. I wansn't impressed by Naltrexone, NAC gives me brain fog, everyone is differen though.

Edited by SFX, 09 May 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[comeback]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Any background on your Derealization onset? What caused it?

[SFX]

Death, ssri withdrawal, ultimate anxiety and pssd at the end. Was struggling with pssd, but I suspect derealization should be addressed first. Forget what I've written above. Rhodiola is unpredictable, Ginkgo is kind of "better safe than sorry" herb except enhanced sight. Currently I'm experimenting with some stuff, so nothing is set in stone. However Bacopa is amazing. I've tried virtually half of everything (except Moda/Adrafinil - I'm intrested in your results) and nothing was even close to Bacopa. Stuff is surprisingly powerful. I suspect it is due to serotonin transporter upregulation (and I believe I'm SERT deficient), your issues with writing and spelling reminds me some of the descriptions of MDMA's victims, which leads to SERT also. Just a theory, experiment is superior.

 

Trying Bacopa can't be a bad advice, take 200-300mg to check your response. Mine was quite profound, not an earth quake, but I knew it was the shit. It really helps with meditation, mindfulness, colour perception and stuff.

 

http://www.longecity...ng-a-nightmare/

This is interesting regarding glutamate

[SFX]

In my case it's about SERT. Added Berberine 3 days ago, going to stack it with Evodia berries, both increase SERT expression. It's too early to judge things, nevertheless I'm really excited.

[jaiho]

Zoloft + Nortriptyline wiped it out for me. nothing else touched it except psychedelics temporarily.

 

This combo acts like a triple reuptake inhibitor, Serotonin, Dopamine, NE all inhibited, then you have 5ht2c antagonism increasing dopamine as well. try it.

[AlmostEasy]

Something you probably won't find mentioned are:

HPA axis dysfunction.  Thyroid stuff / adrenals / pituitary & hypothalamus.  Can you get labs drawn under insurance?  Thyroid panel, T / Free T, LH, FSH, Prolactin.  What are you waking / daily body temperatures?  Are they low?  How do you respond to stress?

 

Have you checked out methylation at all?  It seems the methyl cycle can break under certain conditions and require assistance to get going again.  This is anecdotal as I and a couple others were on high dose methylfolate / methylcobalamin injections (60 mg a day / 30 mg a day) and after a few months no longer needed it where it helped before.  I like to think in systems that can go wrong.  Something obviously broke, and it's more than likely not going to be about "OH bro, did you try L-Tyrosine yet?  Maybe you're low in dopamine??!".  How could that ever be useful?  If a system is out of balance.. what does that even have to do with adding in dopamine?  That isn't going to address the issue.  That's like saying your transmission shit out but did you try putting in premium fuel?  Ok.

 

It sounds to me like your systems were stressed already prior to this, it's possible this was the breaking point.

 

For temporary relief you could look at things like the Semax's, CBD oil is very good to me vaped or oral, Low Dose Naltrexone is something to consider, Memantine.  These help with neuro inflammation, which I personally have found to be a source of DP.  I realize this is not a core issue fix like I just preached about, but understanding the whole picture while adding these in for a band aid can be useful.  3 years of suffering with band aid suggestions only is maddening.

 

I would look at HPA axis stuff.  I am not aware of too many systems that could go haywire with an experience like that but the HPA is definitely finicky.

 

Could I be totally wrong?  Sure, but I just see time and time again on these forums people coming in with normal brains, not having lived in complete mental hell for years on end, going.. ohh uhhh so I know that 5 htp works on serotonin, and maybe he's low on serotonin... have you tried 5-htp?  That is for someone who is mildly depressed and has their life situation together.  Could it help?  Maybe, but how often do you see these kinds of posts go on and and on and on with pointless suggestions that get the OP nowhere real fast.  This needs to be come at with a different approach.

 

Here are some interesting resources:

 

http://forums.phoeni...plements.18369/

http://forums.phoeni...e-chelation.6/ 

http://www.pointinst....2_hpa_axis.pdf

 

While those in Phoenix Rising have different issues but perhaps with similar symptoms, there is a lot of overlap in all of this stuff.  Similar systems break down for different reasons, so it may be of help to you to browse there for ideas as they have a much more systemic approach than anything you'll see on Longecity.  Not to fault this place as it has some brilliant stuff, but this isn't the only place to look for cognitive dysfunction help, nor is it the best.

 

While Nootropic / supplement roulette is always something that will lead to something beneficial, and perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh on those with suggestions - I just know what it's like to be MASSIVELY suffering like some people can't even imagine with no one to help you, not even the holier than thou medical establishment that is supposed to know everything, and see my attempts to communicate what's really happening and how bad this is and how much help I need, fall flat.  If finances support it of course you could find your magical supplement, but I just want to lend a deeper perspective on what might help.

 

I noticed you had low folate levels, try out Solgar's Metafolin, it is part of the methylation protocol.  In the links above you'll see how much those with broken methylation cycles can suffer.

 

Good luck

[psychejunkie]

Enlargement of right Lateral Ventricle might indicate right Hippocampus shrinkage!

 

Consider this stack as a suggestion:

- St.John's Wort Extract (2x/day - at Morning and Noon)

- NSI-189 (2x10 mg/day )

- Zinc (15-30 mg/day)

- Buspirone (start at 2.5 mg for a week then 5 mg) + Melatonin (3 mg) (3-4 hrs before bedtime)

 

Optional add-ons:

- Lion's Mane

- Chamomile Tea (or Apigenin Extract)

 

Good luck

[Hip]

For depersonalization, one study found that the drug naloxone is effective:

 

Effect of naloxone therapy on depersonalization: a pilot study

"In three of 14 patients, depersonalization symptoms disappeared entirely and seven patients showed a marked improvement. The therapeutic effect of naloxone provides evidence for the role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization."

 

 

 

For derealization, one study found that the drug naltrexone is effective:

 

An open trial of naltrexone in the treatment of depersonalization disorder

"In this prospective open treatment trial, 14 subjects were recruited and treated with naltrexone for 6 weeks to a maximum dose of 100 mg/d (first 7 subjects) or 10 weeks to a maximum dose of 250 mg/d (next 7 subjects). Mean naltrexone dose was 120 mg/d. There was an average 30% reduction of symptoms with treatment, as measured by 3 validated dissociation scales. Three patients were very much improved, and 1 patient was much improved with naltrexone treatment. "

 

Naloxone and naltrexone are very similar drugs, and one may be able to substitute the other.

 

 

 

 

For anyone with depersonalization and/or derealization symptoms, an interesting angle to research is the involvement of the kappa opioid receptor. Some are suggesting that these conditions are caused by over activation of the kappa opioid receptors in the brain.

 

See this thread for example:

I might be on to something in the curing of depersonalization disorder : DrugNerds

 

 

 

 

There is a thread HERE about how one individual with depersonalization and derealization cured these conditions using 2 to 4 grams of N-acetyl-cysteine a day, plus 0.5 mg of buprenorphine.

 

 

[Hip]

Update: one person with depersonalization told me that he is getting very good results with CJC-1925, especially when taken in combination with GHRP-2. Both are human growth hormone secretion stimulants, often used by body-builders. Both need to be administered by subcutaneous injection (but subcutaneous injections are easy to do). 

Edited by Hip, 18 September 2016 - 04:47 AM.