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Lifetime cumulative dose limit?

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#1 ta5

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 03:51 PM


This poll/thread asks, "What is your intended lifetime cumulative dose?" That made me wonder...

 

What's the evidence that there should be any lifetime limit?

 

Thanks.



#2 Turnbuckle

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 08:50 PM

There seems to be an implicit assumption that C60 doesn't go away, however, it very likely does. Water soluble C60 disappears from rats in less than a day, while inhaled C60 nano-particles have a half-life of 2-4 weeks. C60 dissolved in oil and taken orally probably behaves like nano-particles.


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#3 Wilberforce

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 06:54 PM

I wondered if the question relates to a potential over exploitation of stem cells


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#4 Turnbuckle

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:53 PM

I wondered if the question relates to a potential over exploitation of stem cells


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Good point. C60 certainly enhances stem cell proliferation, but the question of stem cells wearing out is still up in the air. The most accepted theory is that they do, while at least one group says they don't, but that a protein (p16) involved with tumor suppression shuts them down in a programmed manner. Other researchers have looked at this protein as an age marker, finding that smoking increases it while exercise decreases it. Looking at the effect of C60 treatment on this protein would be interesting.

 

Here, we show that p16INK4a expression in PBTL has the properties of a useful peripheral blood biomarker of human molecular age. The test is an easily measured, low-cost assay that can be performed on a small specimen of whole blood with a short turnaround time. The test demonstrates low intra-individual variability and is highly dynamic with human age. Data from rodents systems suggest that p16INK4a expression is not merely epiphenomenally associated with aging, but may also play a causal role in the process in diverse tissues...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2752333/

 



#5 Graviton

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 10:19 AM

Withanone is a p21, p53 suppressor in normal cells. Possibly, would taking it with C60 olive oil can potentiate the stem cell proliferation effects of C60 olive oil while keeping down wearing out?


Edited by Graviton, 23 June 2016 - 10:20 AM.


#6 niner

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 05:13 PM

There seems to be an implicit assumption that C60 doesn't go away, however, it very likely does. Water soluble C60 disappears from rats in less than a day, while inhaled C60 nano-particles have a half-life of 2-4 weeks. C60 dissolved in oil and taken orally probably behaves like nano-particles.

 

I wouldn't expect nano-particles that are aggregates to have the same properties as a c60-fatty acid adduct, or even as a monomolecular c60 species in the case of a true solution of c60 in a carrier oil.    I agree that c60oo is likely to ultimately clear from the system, but I suspect that it might take years, depending on one's definition of "clear".


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#7 Turnbuckle

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:43 PM

 

There seems to be an implicit assumption that C60 doesn't go away, however, it very likely does. Water soluble C60 disappears from rats in less than a day, while inhaled C60 nano-particles have a half-life of 2-4 weeks. C60 dissolved in oil and taken orally probably behaves like nano-particles.

 

I wouldn't expect nano-particles that are aggregates to have the same properties as a c60-fatty acid adduct, or even as a monomolecular c60 species in the case of a true solution of c60 in a carrier oil.    I agree that c60oo is likely to ultimately clear from the system, but I suspect that it might take years, depending on one's definition of "clear".

 

 

 

The original Baati rat paper suggested the C60 of C60EVOO disappeared in a matter of hours.
 
Nevertheless, the weakness of organ concentrations notably at D8 after 7 daily successive administrations of C60 dissolved in olive oil clearly shows that C60 molecules are eliminated from the organs in a few hours after both oral and i.p. administrations.

 

 


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#8 niner

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 12:16 AM

The original Baati rat paper suggested the C60 of C60EVOO disappeared in a matter of hours.

 
Nevertheless, the weakness of organ concentrations notably at D8 after 7 daily successive administrations of C60 dissolved in olive oil clearly shows that C60 molecules are eliminated from the organs in a few hours after both oral and i.p. administrations.

 

I think they're using the word "eliminated" in the pharmacokinetic sense, meaning "reduced in concentration", rather than in the plain English sense of "completely removed".  Their own data shows that at D8, liver, spleen, and lung contained non-trivial fractions of the total (mega-)dose of 28 mg/kg.  They went on to say:

 

 

A complete biodistribution study including intestine, skin, bone and fatty tissue is in progress in our laboratory.

 

This, I'm afraid, is one of those great ideas that have fallen by the wayside.  They never actually quantitated where all that c60oo ended up.  Toxicologists can never show that a compound is truly "gone", only that it has dropped below the limit of detection.  The LOD in Baati's methodology is reasonable for a normal drug, but for a compound with the potency of c60oo, it could be below the LOD while still being present in active amounts.


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