10 replies to this topic

[Kabb]

The nootropics I use are generally regarded as health supplements, so I haven't tired to follow the debate about the UK's forthcoming Psychoactive Substances Act which bans "legal highs" from 26th May 2016.

 

I take a lot of antioxidants and I recently saw some research that racetams are impressive antioxidants which makes me interested in them.

 

How can I find out which racetams (and which other substances) are going to be restricted UK residents to purchase by the Psychoactive Substances Act? 

[Geoffrey]

It looks very unlikely that most racetams will be considered psychoactive under the new guidance that has just been published, though I'd welcome the thoughts of people on here who have knowledge of the likelihood of specific racetams passing the tests. First of all, the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs is giving the following guideline as to what constitutes a psychoactive substance:
 

‘A substance produces a psychoactive effect in a person if, by stimulating or depressing the person’s central nervous system, it affects the person’s mental functioning or emotional state; as measured by the production of a pharmacological response on the central nervous system or which produces a response in in-vitro tests qualitatively identical to substances controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, and references to a substance’s psychoactive effects are to be read accordingly.’

Second, the Home Office has established a series of scientific tests:

The ACMD has recommended two tests:

(1) receptor binding assay (to determine whether the drug binds to the receptor); and

(2) a functional assay (to determine whether the drug activates a response following interaction with the receptor).

In both cases testing is done in the laboratory by immobilising cells that have specific receptors, exposing them to a drug and measuring the response.

The receptors which have been selected for testing are:

• CB1 (targeted by cannabis and synthetic cannabinoid type drugs);
• GABAA (targeted by benzodiazepine type drugs);
• 5HT2A (targeted by hallucinogenic type drugs – these can be from a number of different types of drugs);
• NMDA (targeted by dissociative/hallucinogenic drugs e.g. ketamine);
• µ-opioid (targeted by opioid drugs e.g. heroin); and
• monoamine transporters (targeted by stimulant drugs e.g. MDMA, cocaine).
The receptor and functional assays have been selected to cover a range of psychoactive substances that have been encountered in Europe. Additional receptors may be added in the future if different drugs or mechanisms of drug action appear. This will be kept under review by the Home Office in consultation with the ACMD.

Finally, they'll keep a database of those tested substances that are deemed psychoactive. Presumably they'll also keep a list of those substances that did not pass the test for psychoactivity. It seems unlikely that established racetams will ever get tested (too expensive for little gain). New, unknown substances being imported in largish quantities may well get tested.

[gamesguru]

Most racetams upregulate NMDA or antagonize it, so the govt may compare it to ketamine and pcp

Aniracetam has some effect at 5HT-2A and GABA-A.

Piracetam, aniracetam, and coulracetam affect dopamine and glutamate uptake (but so does ginkgo).

I'm sure phenylpiracetam, oxiracetam, and pramiracetam hit one of the above-mentioned targets too.

Edited by gamesguru, 25 May 2016 - 03:45 PM.

[Geoffrey]

Most racetams upregulate NMDA or antagonize it, so the govt may compare it to ketamine and pcp
Aniracetam has some effect at 5HT-2A and GABA-A.
Piracetam, aniracetam, and coulracetam affect dopamine and glutamate uptake (but so does ginkgo).
I'm sure phenylpiracetam, oxiracetam, and pramiracetam hit one of the above-mentioned targets too.

Yes, so I imagine a lot will depend on:

(2) a functional assay (to determine whether the drug activates a response following interaction with the receptor).

One wonders what "response" this refers to. Will they require a certain level of "response"? Since, as you say, ginkgo, chamomile and many other herbs would fall foul of a basic test for binding to the mentioned receptors. Nevertheless, it seems clear that what they will be trying to determine is "a response in in-vitro tests qualitatively identical to substances controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971". They also refer to expert witnesses making a "subjective judgement" as to whether a substance produces a qualitatively identical effect (but clearly this would already be at the level of a court case).

[Kabb]

I had thought maybe the UK government would have already published a list of those substances which clearly fell foul of the Psychoactive Substances Act but it seems not.

 

How are health food shops responding to this legislation?  Some of the supplements they sell could be borderline because they claim to improve memory or alertness or whatever.

 

I contacted mindnutrition.com who said "While there isn't a definitive list, we will be discontinuing all racetams, Phenibut, Noopept and Centrophenoxine in the UK. Everything else will be unaffected."

 

nootropic.co.uk said to me that "due to the UK Psychoactive substance ban we are not taking any more orders for the meantime".

 

They seem to be playing it safe for now but maybe things will change,

 

Meanwhile I want to try the best racetam for its antioxidant effect.  I don't know which racetam to choose and to go looking for.  Some published research article used   Piracetam but this, unfortunately, has been a regulated medical substance in the UK for some time and has not been available to purchase for a long time.  Any suggestions for other racetams?

 

 

[gamesguru]

Faso+Colu is supposed to be wicked

[medievil]

I had thought maybe the UK government would have already published a list of those substances which clearly fell foul of the Psychoactive Substances Act but it seems not.

 

How are health food shops responding to this legislation?  Some of the supplements they sell could be borderline because they claim to improve memory or alertness or whatever.

 

I contacted mindnutrition.com who said "While there isn't a definitive list, we will be discontinuing all racetams, Phenibut, Noopept and Centrophenoxine in the UK. Everything else will be unaffected."

 

nootropic.co.uk said to me that "due to the UK Psychoactive substance ban we are not taking any more orders for the meantime".

 

They seem to be playing it safe for now but maybe things will change,

 

Meanwhile I want to try the best racetam for its antioxidant effect.  I don't know which racetam to choose and to go looking for.  Some published research article used   Piracetam but this, unfortunately, has been a regulated medical substance in the UK for some time and has not been available to purchase for a long time.  Any suggestions for other racetams?

im 100% sure law enforcement isnt gonna go after nootropic sellers.

 

Either way, in other countrys where a blanket ban was employed use actually increased or deaths increased, either way this is in a way good news as many vendors are moving overseas with loser laws, so more chemicals will be brought onto the market, kinda how destroying saffrole in cambodya caused the uprising of mephedrone, and the ban of that rc stims, cannabinoids, benzos etc.

 

 

business will go on as usual, and will grow stronger, and im all for it.

[Geoffrey]

Meanwhile I want to try the best racetam for its antioxidant effect.  I don't know which racetam to choose and to go looking for.  Some published research article used   Piracetam but this, unfortunately, has been a regulated medical substance in the UK for some time and has not been available to purchase for a long time.  Any suggestions for other racetams?

This should probably go in the vendors thread, but as it's UK only and related to the PSA, and because it answers your question, maybe I'm permitted to post details here. I suggest you search e-bay for Geratam, and you'll find several vendors selling pharmaceutical grade piracetam, or probably even better, head to docsimon, search for piracetam (I've ordered from there -- the price of the piracetam is quite cheap, but the postage is high). Or get it from unitedpharmacies. It's legal to import for personal use only, without a prescription, because it is a recognized medicine in the UK (prescription medicine). As for mindnutrition, they're setting up an EU store but don't seem to be ready with it yet. As far as I can tell, intellimeds still seems to be selling their range. Nootropics say they'll be back in a few days. But if you're new, I'd definitely start with pharmaceutical grade piracetam, and get some citicholine (CDP choline) to go with it.

[Kabb]

Faso+Colu is supposed to be wicked

 

I don't understand what Faso or Colu is.  Can you explain please?  Thank you.

[gamesguru]

-racetam

 

havent personally tried anything besides pi- and ani-

[sativa]

Aka Fasoracetam+Coluracetam