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A bit of a stretch possibly....

hyalauronic acid sodium chloride

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#1 ron45

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:58 AM


I need some chemistry help please. For lack of a better word, the chemicals are hyaluronic acid and salt. This combination in purified water was claimed to be a good thing to drink for arthritic pains in joints. The amounts to be used were a teaspoon and a half of sea salt and 5 or 6 hundred mg of h.a. in a 20 oz bottle of purified water. I didn't like the idea of all that salt, but didn't know if it was somehow necessary to help disolve the h. a. in the water. It requires more than a few hours for the H.A. to go into solution. I have done a number of searches on this idea and can't find a thing about it. Does anyone know if H.A. can be  transported to the joints in question via the digestive system? Are there substances to help get the H.A. to the right place?

 

I began backing off on the salt after the first week. There seemed to be  a reduction in the number of episodes of sharp burning pain in the second knuckles of both hands. I'm a musician and have been working the hands pretty hard. Both primary finger joints and the pad that extends into the palm were quite sore all the time from over use. So I put the instrument in it's case till I can get the inflammation resolved.

 

1. does anyone have any experience with this concoction?

2. why so much salt?

3. In addition to the drink in #1, I have been mixing a few drops of  DMSO and Aloe Vera juice in my palm and rubbing them together lightly till the hands are dry. I've been thinking about putting the DMSO and the H. A. together in my palm for a more direct approach. Any counter indications for this idea? There seems to be some lessening of the discomfort since putting the guitars in their cases and applying the above substances three to 5 times a day.

4. Does anyone know of something more effective?

 

I've heard bad things about cortisone shots. I'm also thinking of NIR light therapy and the thing where the sore areas are given some number of small injuries from focused blows or electroshock to instigate a healing response.

 

Would I ever love to hear from anyone with info in this area. Thanks for your time. Sorry if this is not the correct place to be asking.

 

Ron


Edited by ron45, 24 May 2016 - 07:02 AM.


#2 aconita

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:57 PM

I don't think salt is so mandatory in order to absorb hyaluronic acid which is actually a salt (sodium hyaluronate when speaking about supplements or gels) and not an acid as the name suggest.

 

I may state you might skip the salt altogether quite happily.

 

Hyaluronic acid comes in capsules too, recommended dosage is about 250-350mg/day, the more not necessarily the better.

 

Yes, ingested hyaluronic acid seems to get in the blood stream and delivered where it is needed.

 

Molecular weight is important, for ingestion it seems that an higher molecular weight might be better and for topical use a lower one is needed for absorption.

 

For topical use a 1-2% gel with a molecular weight up to 400 KDa has been shown to reach the blood stream, an higher than that molecular weight will likely only be able to penetrate some layers of skin.

 

Such an high molecular weight is unusual to be able to permeate the skin barrier to the point of going systemic but HA is not a round molecule but a narrow and long one therefore able to pass between narrow spaces.

 

DMSO will enhance skin permeability and probably allow even higher molecular weight HA to permeate, according to some research it seem that 1000KDa (one million) can get to the blood when applied topically with DMSO, of course there is not much literature about that therefore might be prudent to just say that likely the 400KDa limit would shift if DMSO is employed.

 

Here a patent showing a few ways for a more effective DMSO:

 

https://www.google.c...tents/US4296104

 

I have been using this concoction in order to obtain a HA gel for topical use with supposedly enhanced absorption:

 

200g water

60g DMSO

16g urea

8g MSM

3g salt

3g panthenol

3g hyaluronic acid about 400KDa (or a mix of 400KDa and 1000KDa)

8 drops SSKI (as preservative)

 

For ingestion I would go for a 2000-3000KDA (2-3 millions Da) without worrying about enhancing absorption.

 

Ingesting gelatin seems to help with arthritis:

 

http://www.longecity...necollagen-etc/

 

MK-677 might help, BPC-157 might too, hydrogen water both topical and oral is well worth a try.

 

I had a painful finger joint which x-rays showed as osteoarthritis and 3 sessions of shock waves solved 90% of the issue, it does not happen immediately but after a few weeks it really started to feel much better, probably something like 6 or more sessions would have been even better.

 

To treat with shock waves all hand joints would be a bit time consuming and expensive, of course.

 

Contrast therapy might be worth a try too, 2 bowls, one with icy cold water and one with scalding hot water (as hot as you can without causing an injury, of course) , dip your hand 30 second in each bowl for 3-4 times (hot-cold-hot-cold-hot, etc...). 

 

Leave alone cortisone shots, they will make thing worst in the long term in your case.

 

Acupuncture, if you know a GOOD traditional Chinese doctor might do wonders.

 

Moxa is something you can do yourself and might help too.

 

LIPUS should work, is FDA approved for bone healing only but actually heals all tissues, it is very interesting and largely undervalued for those kind of issues, Exogen 4000 units can be bought second hand for about 100USD on eBay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

     


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#3 ron45

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 06:30 AM

aconita, Hello to you,  I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. There are some quantifying terms you use that  I do not understand. I'm pleased to  hear the salt is not necessary. Your reply seems very well informed and I apologize for my lack of vocabulary to discuss this subject intelligently. 400  [KDA]  I do not understand the enclosed letters.

 

I understand the words, low molecular weight and it's opposite. But I have no knowledge of how  to differenciate between Low and High molecular weight . Is is a reference to how much H.A. is being held in solution? I'm guessing probably not.

 

The idea that DMSO can be used more effectively is very exciting. I have used it since the 60. I often cap up my own 95% curcumin  for regular consumption. It gets all over my hand and I always apply DMSO when I finish capping and reapply it as long as the color is there. I began just using Turmeric at a very high dose 6  00 caps three times a day.

 

I do not know what SSKI is. I wish I was better equipped to understand your generous help. I will probably run into more things I don't understand as I explore the info on enhancing  DMSO.  Please let me know if there are too many questions. You mention ingesting gelitan as helpful. I always use gel caps and often use 8 to 12 00 caps over a day's time. You aslo refer to H.A. as gel. You are describing two separate kinds of gel  if I understand you correctly. I can feel the thickened quality of the solution. In 20 oz's of water I put 1 gram of H.A. I worked up to that amount over about three weeks. I have stopped practicing or playing with friends untill there is some change in the discomfort.

 

I also mix DMSO  and a supposedly pure form of Aloe vera several times a day.

 

If I put 4 drops of Aloe in palm and add DMSO  or visa versa there is a reaction you can feel right away. Heat. DMSO always gives a warming reaction but it's much higher when Aloe is present.

 

It seems to me there could be some use made of this heating reaction. It doesn't burn but it's significant. If the cost of the ingredients is not a factor it seems useful energy could be derived from it with just a little R&D.

 

LIPUS is another term I only know as an autoimmune disorder. I will look it up. Mk-667 and BPC-157 also are on my find out more list.  Do you trust wikipedia for matters like we are are discussing? I will order the ingredients in your concoction. Would any of the ingredients need to change for ingestion?

 

Are you a chemist or a chemistry student? Just curious,  and it doesn't matter, I am very grateful for your help.

 

Ron

 



#4 Adaptogen

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:44 AM

have you tried boswellia? there have been a number of studies showing benefits for arthritis, and arthritic-type inflammations.  http://www.sciencedi...44711304701890 

 

I haven't personally tried it, but if you decide to I would recommend getting something standardized to 10-20% AKBA, such as the formulation sold by LEF, since this is roughly what has been used in a several of the studies.


Edited by Adaptogen, 26 May 2016 - 08:45 AM.


#5 aconita

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 12:21 PM

I am sorry some of the terms I did use are not familiar, I apologize and clarify immediately.

 

Molecular weight is basically how big a molecule is, the higher the molecular weight the bigger the molecule, it is important because if a molecule has to pass the skin barrier in order to get deeper into the tissues or to the blood stream or, if ingested, has to pass as it is the intestine barrier to get to the blood stream it must be small enough to be able do that.

 

In other words if a molecule is not small enough will not be able to go where it should therefore its molecular weight needs to be appropriate (not too high).

 

The measure unit for the molecular weight is the Dalton which abbreviates in Da, K is an abbreviation for kilo which means thousand, therefore 400 KDa means 400000 Daltons, 2000 KDa  means 2000000 Daltons, etc...a 400 KDa molecule is much smaller than a 2000 KDa, of course

 

When you buy HA powder it should be specified how many Da it is, if it is not specified ask the seller since it is important.

 

Low molecular weight, medium or high means little since different sellers use those terms quite wildly and anyway those are not precise or scientific terms, numbers makes matters way more accurate.

 

When talking about HA the smaller doesn't necessarily mean better, in fact if the molecule is too small might be useless or even detrimental, best is just right size, usually the biggest that is able to go where it should.

 

The average molecular weight in human synovial fluid is 3–4 million Da.

 

Molecular weight has nothing to do with solutions, it indicates how big the HA molecule you buy is, when you put HA powder in water in order to obtain a gel for topical use the molecular weight doesn't change.

 

DMSO is best absorbable at 90% solution (90% DMSO/10% water).

 

Urea makes it even better absorbable, eliminate the unpleasant side effect of garlic smell and avoid any skin irritation DMSO might cause, definitely a much better DMSO when at 90% and with some urea added.

 

The other ingredients I use are "details" if you want, they likely make the concoction more gentle on the skin and hopefully a bit more effective.

 

SSKI is a form of water soluble iodine that you can very easily make mixing 14g of potassium iodide and 10g of water, it is a very interesting compound that I am sure you'll love, have a look at this for more information and uses:

 

http://www.olaloa.co...odide-sski.html

 

HA gel might develop bacteria and molds therefore is good practice to add a preservative to it, SSKI is just great for the job since nothing survives to it even if in tiny amounts, a good rule is to make enough gel for no more than 30 days at a time and to keep it in the fridge.

 

Gelatin has to be ingested in far greater amounts than a few gelatin capsules, we are talking about 15g/day or so (see the brilliant post I linked for more details).

 

About HA gel you don't really need a gel for ingestion, the pure powder in a capsule is just fine (about 250-300mg/day).

 

You need the HA gel only for topical use, that is done mixing 1-2g HA in 100g of water, the more is not the better, above 2% yields an almost solid block totally useless, it is preferable a mild gel consistency for enhanced permeability, it doesn't dissolve promptly, actually it seems like a mess at first, just leave it alone in the fridge for a couple of days maybe mixing it a few times meanwhile.

 

DMSO reacts to water developing heat, aloe very high water content is responsible for what you experience, it is normal.

 

Aloe goes bad very fast, when preservative are added the PH changes and mucopolisaccarides deteriorates anyway leading to a very inferior product, I suggest to never buy aloe products, grow your own plant and use it fresh on demand, much better quality guarantee for free (fun and a nice easy plant to have around home or garden).

 

LIPUS stands for Low Intensity Pulsed Ultra Sounds, it has nothing to do with the auto immune disease lupus.

 

A LIPUS unit is a tiny electronic machine with a transducer that emits pulsating very low intensity ultrasounds waves (imperceivable), it speeds up bone fracture healing by about 30% but heals any tissue, it is used to stimulate third dentition (still only animal models).

 

Wikipedia has its own limits but certainly is a reliable source of information to get at least an idea of what we are talking about, I strongly recommend you to search all the terms used in this tread in Wikipedia in order to get a better understanding an to verify the accurateness of what stated (hyaluronic acid, SSKI, LIPUS, etc...).

 

The HA concoction I provided is for TOPICAL use only, for ingestion a 250mg HA powder 2-3 millions Da capsule a day is all you want, buy the raw powder for cheap and capsule yourself in order to save huge.  

 

I am not a chemist and chemistry is mostly really dark territory for me...but I am a curious person and I like to research how things works. :)

 

 

 


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#6 ron45

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 02:15 PM

Hi aconita, chemist or not your detailed and well presented answers are a big help. I am very grateful. How's are the ristretos over your way?

 

Ron



#7 aconita

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:56 PM

Nice to know I might have helped you somehow!

 

Ristretos going strong as always over here :)

 

I wish you to get back to pain free playing ASAP!



#8 ron45

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:23 PM

Thank you aconita, when they get better I'll write you a song to celebrate and I'll toast you with a fresh, homemade ristreto.

 

Do they use the very dark roast where you are? I am told in N. Italy they use a lighter roast which is supposed to have a more interesting flavor profile. My machine [ from Spain] is misbehaving lately. I have to install a little electronic box to replace the thermostat and supposedly make better tasting espresso. It's called a PID. Supposed to maintain the correct temp better than the thermostat. The machine is supposedly rated to light commercial use. What is that anyway?? A machine for people whose clientele is diminishing?? If doesn't have two boilers .... no cigar!! Mine does a very nice job with one boiler,  unless there are 4 people waiting for a shot.

 

It took a while to get back to you because my mac got eaten by a lightning bolt. I'm hoping the hard drive is not a lump useless metal. All my music recordings are on there. No back up!! I began with computers in `95 so I guess I was lulled into a false sense of security.`till we meet again... I'll be exploring the depths of contrition!

 

Ron


Edited by ron45, 05 June 2016 - 09:25 PM.

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#9 aconita

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 10:30 PM

Very sad to hear your misfortune with lightnings!

 

I hope your hard disk is safe, it is one of my worst nightmare to loose all my data (tons of books and research).

 

About coffee actually I am not an expert at all in despite of living in Italy...

 

What I can tell you is that here there are two ways of making coffee: at home and at the bar, the latter is considered "the" coffee while the former a mere poor substitute.

 

At home traditionally is made with the moka (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka), now those miniature bar like machines like yours are becoming popular too but I don't know much about them.

 

At the bar is a big machine (not cheap at all) which stays on 24/24 since it seems that the water as well as the whole machine have to stay always scalding hot or the coffee quality will suffer.

 

I suppose the home miniature version might have issues in that regard.

 

The coffee itself is tricky, if you don't use the right quality especially made for ristrettos the result will be poor, actually very poor.

 

Naples coffee is famous for its quality but nowadays I suppose you will be able to get top quality almost everywhere if the bartender cares enough about it.

 

Out of curiosity a bar value (if you wish to buy one) is dictated by the amount of coffee sold monthly, for a day bar coffee is "the" business, night bars (open after 7pm) is another story since alcoholics are the main revenue.  

 

A PID controller with a solid state relay would be more accurate but be aware SSRs tend to break with use, a security thermoswitch or thermal fuse is recommended in order to avoid disasters if the SSR breaks in the on position (both are even better, just in case).



#10 ron45

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:30 AM

Hello again aconita, I've never been but I would love to spend some time there, In the north part I think. On the PID, long story but we live in a passive solar adobe home [ mud hut!] that my wife and I built. We no longer need to pay such close attention to our power usage as our system has grown over the years. But we are still careful with out use of electricity and water. It's habit mostly. But our whole reason for going off grid [ no power from utilities ] was to live a more simple life and tread more lightly on the planet.

 

So everything is on power strips. [ one plug into the wall and six or more sockets in a row ] When we finish with an area my studio for instance, we turn off the power to that area.

 

Same for kitchen. The Espresso machine is only on long enough to warm up and make however many shots we need. As I type this I realize we almost don't need the PID but the cost was not high and we have replaced three or four of these junk thermostats and they want  49 dollars for one. No more of that.Attached File  Espresso Machine.jpeg   71.12KB   0 downloads

 

It's not all automatic. I don't like those. My first machine was a Pavoni in about 71 or so. I should have kept that one. Just cuz it looked so cool.

 

I'm familiar with the style of the one you included. I always liked the way those looked. I love retro looking stuff. I'm a sucker for anything Deco or Art Nouveau. hope I got the spelling ok. Here in the southwest there are many Deco era buildings still in use. I grew up mostly in Baltomore Md. where there were very many diners that looked like train cars. I love all those parallel lines and stepped elements. Those mimic the horizon in just about any diredtion in this part of the world. For a while I made primitive [sort of ] south western indian jewelery. Many of those elements made it into their work and mine also. Attached File  Elk Hide n Turquoise.jpg   111.94KB   0 downloads

 

I'd always made things in different materials but I never thought I make this.... Well.... my wife Jennifer helped a lot. I mixed the mud and she laid the adobe blocks. See attachments.

 

Attached File  Dr's Eye:Been there forever.jpeg   268.76KB   0 downloads I didn't want to be told how to live or how to build my home or my life so I seemed the natural thing to do but I had no idea how long it would take. Actually it's still not done but we moved in after working on it for ten years during the summer months. I worked at a ski area in winter.  I got some of the ingredients ordered for the topical version. I'm an not seeing great results so far. I am using about 700 mg. mas o menos in 1 liter of bottled water. I am drinking it and using it topically untill I get the other ingredients. I'm having trouble with the urea. It's either from China or fertilizer. Or it's expensive. Ciao' Aconita.

 

 

P.S. in spanish conejo is the word for rabbit. But your icon does not suggest a cute litle bunny. Or does aconita mean something else. The end of your name seems like a spanish diminutive, help me out here. I know just enough about word origins to be dangerous.

 

Ron



#11 aconita

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:52 AM

North Italy is very different from south, it really depends from what you are looking for...anyway Italy is not that big and is perfectly feasible to visit both north and south in one trip.

 

I understand what you mean about making an habit of saving energy, I lived off the grid too for a few years.

 

I am horrified thinking at a coffee machine on 24/24...

 

Pavoni espresso machines are still in production near where I live:

 

http://www.lapavoni.it/

 

Your house looks really cool, I like adobe houses as well as rammed earth and straw bales, the passive solar design is great and those are all topics of my interest since well more than 20 years now, I have been involved in building for a quite a long time starting with a 400 years hold stone country house restore about 35 years ago.

 

Did you use a cinva ram for your adobe blocks?

 

Planning of mud plastering the walls?

 

Rammed earth floors?

 

Photovoltaic only or windmill too?

 

Recycling gray waters for the garden?

 

Urea commercial grade 99% (fertilizer) should be good enough, cosmetic grade would be better for your peace of mind regarding possible undesirable contaminants which likely are not much of an issue.

 

This is cosmetic grade but is expensive:

 

https://www.amazon.c... cosmetic grade

 

You should be able to find it in shops selling do yourself cosmetics, no reason whatsoever to be expensive.

 

It is easy to find and cheap over here but shipping to US and waiting time don't make for a good choice.

 

Don't expect too many miracles from those topical remedies.

 

My name is not a Spanish diminutive, it is actually an ancient Greek word indicating the Olympian fighter so strong the sight of whom was enough to induce the adversary to refuse to fight leaving him the victory, perfectly in line with my avatar.:) 

 

 

 

 

 



#12 ron45

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:34 AM

Thank You Aconita, our adobes came from a local maker BUT..... they are made of crusher fines plus enough clay soil to bind them together and asphalt emulsion is added to the mix water to cut way back on erosion. The emulsion makes it possible to use modern plaster. It had been my intention to use mud but the style we chose more  anasazi than Mexican, with parapets and tll verticle walls just about negates mud plaster for the exterior. As you know, that technology developed in a time when family and community groups were large and Communal!! Two people over 70 can not handle that task alone. Not and get anything else done.

 

We just had the southern exposure stuccoed and we are now applying several coats of elastomeric paint to seal it up.

 

I did a poured mud floor in the battery room. The rest of the floors are concrete [ I know, not an earth friendly material ] I installed a radiant hot water system in the floors. 12 4X8 solar water heaters supply the heat.

 

Not long after we moved here in 83, I met Windy Dankoff. I minor legend in the Santa Fe area. When I asked him about turbines he said ` in this state you either get too much or not enoiugh wind for a small mill. It always seemed the perfect adjunct to me but It takes a big mill to handle the winds and they don't do much in   8 to 14 mph winds. So we kept adding trackers Zome Works in Albuquerque, we have a 3 Kb capability but are only using 2 right now. 

 

The grey water system waters an area where there are fruit trees. But they do not do well at 7000 feet. This subject does not come up around here much except in some fairly evolved groups. I have experienced urine therapy several times at the suggestion of a Swiss Naturopath. It's sterile and ready to use if there is not some over riding info I know nothing about yet. If you diet is clean, there is nothing in your urine that is not in every cell of your body. I just don't know how much for that source. The puritans will roll their eyes. Lettum!!

 

 

Read much on gut biome lately speaking of EEeeeeeWWWWoooooooo!!!!  Great show here: http://www.peoplesph...vedic-medicine/

 

US educated Neurologist putting her CREDS on the line on public radio to describe how intimate and wide ranging the connection between brain and biome really is. To the point of causing addictions and mood swings when things get out of harmony there. This is the real take away.

 

She is well versed in her culture's ancient system of Ayurveda. That.... is a life style not an occasional treatment. If you want to B all you can B that's your ticket. But you better be well off or move to an ashram. My wife and I had 5 days of it during an meditation retreat on Sunset Boulivard and Pacific Coast Hiway in Santa Monica. It really really works.

 

Ron


Edited by ron45, 12 June 2016 - 06:43 AM.


#13 aconita

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 07:30 AM

I think it is a good improvement over plain mud to include some lime and/or cement into the mix in order to get a better resilience leading to less maintenance.

 

I would add some in the adobe mix as well, not much, just to give that little extra strength that allows for more architectural freedom.

 

Some in the rammed earth floors for added resilience too and in the mud plaster, especially the exterior.

 

Concrete is energy intensive in production but small amounts are definitely sustainable in my view.

 

Radiant hot water system in the floors supplied by solar heaters is cool, a must, I might say.

 

Windmill are great but optimal wind conditions are required, that limits their application a lot, micro hydro is the best but needs appropriate settings too.

 

Very interesting the research in solar hydrogen production but maybe a bit too early for that.

 

You might be interested in researching "Pacheco hydrogen generator", cool stuff.

 

7000 feet, wow, that would make for quite cold nights but amazing sky!

 

Fruit and veggies needs special care at that high, some permaculture design principles might help to create a more favorable microclimate.

 

Sincerely I don't know much about urine therapy, my instinct tells me that if we get rid of it we don't need it...but a compost toilet of some kind would be great, the garden would love it.

 

Gut microbiome is really interesting stuff, definitely worth to keep in consideration when health is involved.  

 



#14 aconita

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 07:23 AM

Hey Ron, check this out:

 

http://www.health-sc...t.com/borax.htm



#15 aconita

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 01:18 AM

Chondroitin sulfate seems to be effective in treating hand osteoarthritis.

 

http://www.medscape....warticle/749328



#16 ron45

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 07:41 PM

Hello aconita I tried chondroiten for a good long period a few years ago and it didn't do much for me. What does is getting off caffeine and refined carbohydrates. AND NIR LED's on my hands an hour each evening. I noticed the coffee sugar hiatus in two days. I can play every day without the inflammation making it's self known. Doesn't mean its gone of course. Still using the  H.A. drink and topical application as well. Hope you are in good health and spirits.

 

Ron



#17 aconita

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:25 PM

Nice to hear your hands are doing better!

 

Probably is more the sugar than the caffeine since insulin tends to be pro-inflammatory but whatever it is if it works keep doing it. :)

 

 



#18 ron45

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:50 PM

I think I heard somewhere that coffee was hard on the gut biome. I'll probably get back to it eventually if my hands keep improving. BTW, Got some chelated copper caps and boron 6mg.  I'll probably take a few of those per day to get things rolling. Since my hands are improving my back decided to start bothering me. Got an appt to see the VA doc, I have to bribe him in order to see the ortho guy. it will probably be months before I get to see anyone altho the first appointment is pretty soon. I have an inversion table but it's just a temporary relief.

 

I need to see if there are any Tai Chi classes near here. I think that will be good for my back and everything else. Hope you are well and happy.

 

Ron



#19 aconita

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 01:06 AM

The back could be few different things but if the pain is not radiating to the back of the leg and is confined to the lumbar area it is likely muscular, Tai Chi, Chi Gong, Yoga but "western" approaches too, like foam rolling and specific exercises would solve the issue.  

 

Dr. Stewart McGill is one of the best out there:

 

http://www.backfitpro.com/

 

 



#20 ron45

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:47 AM

Cool That's good to know. I'm familiar with the idea of strengthening the musculature  in ways that help support the spine. But don't have any particulars. I know I sit improperly when i practice and it probably is part of the cause. I book marked the link you sent. Thank you very much for all your help.

 

I was just reading about leg cramps since those are occasionally a problem. they mentioned an Amish remedy containing organic apple cider vinegar and ginger and garlic juice. It was also mentioned that the same product works for reflux as well. I got scared into going on a proton pump med. I'm thinking of giving the vinegar a try. Same for statins I got put on those after a self diagnosed heart condition which led to a triple bypass procedure about 5 years ago. I quit those once already but got back on because of the alledged slowing of the heart rate. That's probably a good thing to do. Mine is always between 50-60 bpm at the Dr's office. I sent the borax paper to a Dr. friend who lives near here and also a pharmacist my wife used to work with at the hospital. They didn't know much about it but are curious to know more. Me too.  Thanks for all the great info.

 

Ron



#21 aconita

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:46 PM

Leg cramps are bitches, not an easy one.

 

Can be caused by too much vitamin D3 as well as too low.

 

Statins are bad...but you already know that.

 

High vitamin K2 doses, both mk4 and mk7, could reverse arterial plaque and stiffness, high doses chondroitin sulfate (about 6g/day for 10 months) seems to work too, you might give it a try.

 

 


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#22 ron45

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 06:49 AM

That's interesting about the chondroiten sulphate. What about mercury danger. Or is the chondroitin sulphate a synthesized version? I used that for a while some years ago with no noticable resulte. But I wasn't using DMSO with it at that time.

 

On the subject of arterial plaque,..... there is a Japanese fermented product that is supposed to remove plaque over time, I think we even have some but can't think of the name but we aren't using larger doses of it at this time. Besides, how would you know it's working w/o an artereogram or what ever that procedure is called. Natokinase! an enzyme from the end of the name..... People in my age group are prime targets for "remedies" of every kind. We are fortunate to have this forum to learn about things that are helping people. And hopfully from those being helped. Even then, we are such biochemical individuals, these substances don't always work across the board as the say.

 

Ron



#23 aconita

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:14 AM

Chondroitin sulfate comes from different sources, from bovine trachea, poultry, fish, etc... 

 

I don't think mercury contamination would be an issue since even when sourced from fish is the cartilage which I doubt is where heavy metals tends to accumulate.

 

Chondroitin sulfate for osteoarthritis is kind of controversial in the research, most has been done about knee osteoarthritis and honestly it doesn't seem very life changing...but for finger osteoarthritis results seems more promising, of course everybody is different and what research says not always applies in practice and definitely not for everybody.

 

A different realm is the use of chondroitin sulfate in high dosage for arterial plaque reversal, it seems to work and definitely worth to consider.

 

https://drrichardsta...roitin-sulfate/

 

If you search in PubMed you'll find researches that tend to confirm the above.

 

The Japanesee fermented food you refer to is called natto (fermented soy beans) and in US is possible to find it or to find the culture to homemade it, one of its main actives is a very high concentration of menaquinone (vitamin K2), its arterial health promoting proprieties is probably mainly due by the high vitamin K2 content. 

 

 



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#24 ron45

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:30 PM

Thank you very much once again. I have to leave here for a while to take a laptop to get fixed. I'll explore the links later. I appreciate your help I didn't know about that use for CS.

 

Ron






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