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What are the ways to upregulate dopamine receptors besides exercising?

dopamine

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#1 us3yournam3

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 09:50 PM


And what else does exercising do that is the key to life :)



#2 psychejunkie

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 10:19 AM

Some might disagree, But I say NoFap along with NoPorn will upregulate Dopaminergic Receptors, naturally!

And if you don't mind to take some supplements/drugs, Sulbutiamine and Buspirone also upregulate DRs and increase synaptic DR density.

 



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#3 jaiho

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 01:00 PM

Meditation, NoFap.

 

Drugs wise, SSRIs sensitise D2 receptors.

Memantine/Agmatine via NDMA antagonism.



#4 Nystagmus

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 02:30 PM

Not sure about the "no fap" theory. May try it some day........jeez, fapping for a single day may prove difficult. Just jesting!

My previous experience is that I get a massive rush/buzz with a good session of lovemaking. I use the word "love" subjectively , as I find the it only works for me if there's more than a physical bond (or monetary) but if it's truly intimate it makes me feel like I'm on top of the world!

Edited by Nystagmus, 21 June 2016 - 02:33 PM.


#5 sativa

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:32 PM

Dont higher with man made SSRI's! Kanna seems OK.

Bromantine, Forskolin, corydalis upregulate dopamine

#6 us3yournam3

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 12:41 PM

Also my balls will upregulate dopamine, I have come to this realization.


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#7 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 09:14 PM

Depends. Different D-receptors do different things.

 

Which receptors do you feel is the most important to your own issues?

If it's ADHD, SCT or a similar disorder... then you're out of luck - the D4-receptor is the only D-receptor that is virtually impervious to regulation - and it is the D-receptor that is the most involved with cognition - attention in particular.

This is good in that D4-selective drugs can be trialled and used for prolonged periods of time, but it also means that exercise, etc are useless for true inattention.



#8 sativa

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 10:27 PM

...
If it's ADHD, SCT or a similar disorder... then you're out of luck - the D4-receptor is the only D-receptor that is virtually impervious to regulation - and it is the D-receptor that is the most involved with cognition - attention in particular.
This is good in that D4-selective drugs can be trialled and used for prolonged periods of time, but it also means that exercise, etc are useless for true inattention.


It's possible that Blue lotus is a D4 and D5 antagonist and a D2/D3 agonist. You would have to try it to judge its pharmacology for yourself.

It's quite inexpensive to buy some potent blue lotus extract. In the past I have dissolved it in hot water for tea, or smoked.

Edited by sativa, 27 June 2016 - 10:33 PM.


#9 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 10:33 PM

D4-antagonism would work in reverse though, increasing my inattention. Cheers for giving a reply though.


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 27 June 2016 - 10:33 PM.


#10 sativa

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 04:47 PM

D4-antagonism would work in reverse though, increasing my inattention. Cheers for giving a reply though.


Except once the antagonsism wears of, surely D4 would upregulate, which would decrease your inattention?

just curious, how do you know D4 is the source of your issue? Have you tried NMDA agonism or GABA antagonsism?

#11 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 01:12 AM

I don't know for sure, no - but I do know that I have one of the candidate-genes for Adhd - I don't recall the number now, but it relates to DRD4, I have a variant that implies more exploratory and novelseeking behaviour.

Drd4-vntr-7 is the candidategene hypothesized to be the most related to Adhd-pi (and/or possibly SCT) so I think there's a good chance that's the one I have.

I have tried MPH formulations and the results are limited - hence my issue is probably not related to Dat1 and dopamine-transport.

I haven't tried nmda-agonism or gaba-antagonism, but that's mainly because I don't see any greater potential in those compounds - research in adhd and sct is going in the OTHER direction, you see - Memantine, a nmda-antagonist has shown some efficay in adhd treatment, likewise Metadoxine- a gaba-enhancing drug has shown potential as well.

And as I mentioned before, the D4-receptor does not easily upregulate, nor down for that matter - so unless I use very high doses, I won't get any upregulation from antagonism.

Considering the nature of most d4-antagonists as antipsychotics, this just isn't practical - if I have to be completely wacked out for one day, in order to be efficient the other, then the benefit turns to zero.
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#12 sativa

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 08:20 PM

I don't know for sure, no - but I do know that I have one of the candidate-genes for Adhd -
...
Considering the nature of most d4-antagonists as antipsychotics, this just isn't practical - if I have to be completely wacked out for one day, in order to be efficient the other, then the benefit turns to zero.


I see. Have you tried any other approaches to combatting ADHD? [I hate labels but...they can be useful..!]

ie Diet changes (gut flora enhancement and optimisation, heavy metal & general toxin removal via fortification of your livers detox mechanism's, avoidance of problematic foods/substances eg gluten casein which have opioidergic properties/lectins), Different neuropharmacological aapproaches(uridine perhaps? It might stabilise D4?)

What is your diet like at the moment?

I tend to take antagonists in the evening so that the upregulation is present by the time I wake up next morning. These mainly include iboga, theanine and blue lotus. (I do sometimes take Theanine during the day to relax)

#13 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 11:10 PM

 

I don't know for sure, no - but I do know that I have one of the candidate-genes for Adhd -
...
Considering the nature of most d4-antagonists as antipsychotics, this just isn't practical - if I have to be completely wacked out for one day, in order to be efficient the other, then the benefit turns to zero.

I see. Have you tried any other approaches to combatting ADHD? [I hate labels but...they can be useful..!]

ie Diet changes (gut flora enhancement and optimisation, heavy metal & general toxin removal via fortification of your livers detox mechanism's, avoidance of problematic foods/substances eg gluten casein which have opioidergic properties/lectins), Different neuropharmacological aapproaches(uridine perhaps? It might stabilise D4?)

What is your diet like at the moment?

I tend to take antagonists in the evening so that the upregulation is present by the time I wake up next morning. These mainly include iboga, theanine and blue lotus. (I do sometimes take Theanine during the day to relax)

 

 

 

Right, I'll try to break it down to pieces, your questions, so I can give some proper answers. But first: cheers for wanting to give it a go, but I'm afraid that this is a neurostructurally and genetic disorder - it won't budge without extreme methods. (the same way, for instance, Schizophrenia and Narcolepsy is - these tips won't help them either)

 

Diet = I eat a diet similar to Resistant Starch - no white bread, white pasta, or anything like that. I eat a lot of chicken, since it's cheap and nutritious. Lots of paprica, cucumber, oats, spinache. I try to stay away from processed food, but there's a bit of it now and then, when I get too ADD-tired. Cooking with raw materials takes A LOT more mental energy than the quick stuff.

 

I've tried Gluten-free and lactose-free when I had stress-induced gastric catarrh - no effect on the catarrh and I was the same inattentive self. Always have sallad or other veggies at home. I eat far too little though, but that's a constant side-effect from the stims - I'm highly receptive to it, probably since I've never had much of an apetite - always been quite thin.

 

I've tried LCHF-diet as well, but that was a bit of a wash since I didn't properly restock my electrolyes, and I probably didn't eat enough fat, so I had the worst case of brainfog I have ever had! Seriously... running on no calories makes you a zombie. After about 3 weeks it got so bad I just couldn't take it any longer, I broke down and went back to carbs. I should probably give this one a try again, since my own research shows that Kynurenic Acid might be benefficial and LCHF is one of the few things that actually increases KYNA naturally. I seem to have a fairly high metabolism of carbs though, so I'm hesitant to try it again - I have a few ideas on how to improve it this time, but my ADD tells me that it's too much of a hassle.

Supplements = I take 2 grams of Omega-3 70% oil tabs each day, and around 150 mg Magnesium. Used to take 200 mg Zinc as well, but I ran out. Used to take Vitamine D3 60 uG as well, but I didn't notice any change so I quit.

 

Excercise = I do cardio each day, biking around 2 metric miles I would say. I used to do karate and dancing as well, but I got burnt out.

 

Sleep = This is one of the things that actually really is bad - a bit better with agomelatine, but not much. I need around 10 hours of sleep I  believe, to really be charged, I usually get like 6. I break down into 5 hours fairly often.

 

Medication = 300 mg Bupropion, 50 mg Agomelatine, 60 mg Vyvanse.

 

I've checked my Thyroid thoroughly - TSH, T3, T4 are all normal range. I even did about 5 days worth of temperature-measures with a good thermometer - I didn't have low body-temp.

Haven't checked testosterone properly though, should try and get that checked somehow... Checked my mineral and vitamine-levels

 

 

What can I say about all of this? The reintroduction of cardio has helped with anxiety and depression, but everything else has been constant, and shown... no effect whatsoever. On SCT that is. Can't say it helps much with anxiety or depression, but maybe it does, nocebo and all that. (my genetic testing actually revealed that I have multiple anti-placebo genes)

It's just not how it works, mate. There's a reason this is such a big problem for society - it's not easy to solve. I'm trying to look into environmental changes - using apps and technology to help my brain at the moment, we'll see if I succeed - success is based on me actually maintaining training and usage of them.

 

The only thing that have given any type of relief is the medication - it's got a lot of downsides, but hey, it's better then nothing.

 

Regarding Uridine - it's overhyped, especially when it comes to us ADD-ers of any type - I've been at the forums for a long time, and I used to talk a lot to GetoutofBox who is a wonderfully talented SCT-er and Neuro-specialist - he's tried pretty much all of the classics, without any effect. Our symptoms, even our very physical appearance and general behaviour is similar - so I don't really think it will work on me. Waste of time. (if I recall correctly even our genetic testing showed similar alterations)

 

And the antagonists I have actually tried, for my sleeping-issues - they help, but they actually cause cognitive decline the day after - for some reason the effects seem to linger much longer than any other sleeping-medication for me - my SCT gets worse, which makes sense, since as I said, D4 doesn't down-regulate - but the other receptors do... so then all of a sudden I have DOUBLE SCT! Lol! Nope, antipsychotics do nothing for me.

 

 

You asking me got me to check for my methylation-data, and their does seem to be two possible genes that I have overlooked... With easy, simple solutions.

 

gs223

One copy of GCH1 variant associated with lower levels of tetrahydrobiopterin. You have one copy of GCH1 variant associated with lower levels of tetrahydrobiopterin. Those with TWO copies of this haplotype will likely have somewhat reduced levels of tetrahydrobiopterin.

Ok, there's something to check out, THB-supplementation, huh? Seems like low levels of this one leads to decreased mono-amines, which could certainly give SCT-like symptoms.

 

Rs1801133 (C;T)

"it encodes a variant in the MTHFR gene, which encodes an enzyme involved in folate metabolism.

Homozygous rs1801133(T;T) individuals have ~30% of the expected MTHFR enzyme activity, and rs1801133(C;T) heterozygotes have ~65% activity, compared to the most common genotype, rs1801133(C;C)."

 

I don't think this one would have as much of an impact, because I eat lots of leafy greens, one of my favourite foods. So me not having enough Folate seems ludicrous, seeing as I'm not in the 30% -range even.

 

I'l be having a look into THB though, might be something. Otherwise, my next item to check out is Pyritinol.


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 29 June 2016 - 11:15 PM.


#14 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 10:44 AM

Reading up on THB-deficiency is rather fascinating. I can already strike some things off my list though...

 

Dopamine-responsive Dystonia : Impossible. I have low muscle tone, my symptoms decrease slightly during the evening, and my symptoms are god-awful in the morning, I have hyporeflexivity  and not hyperreflexia.

 

So yeah... that's one methylation-disorder I most definitely don't have. I suppose it makes sense that I have enough dopamine though, I actually have a gene that encodes for higher production of dopamine - which could be the reason why dopaminergics can easily send me over the edge, into panic-attack or anger-management issues.

 

Endothelial Dysfunction: I have no heart-problems whatsoever. EEG and blood-pressure measurements show that I'm actually unusually healthy in this regard. And as another fact, when I was younger I was even plagued by LOW blood-pressure...! I even fainted once, when my step-father had induced iron-deficiency in my blood, through a decrease of my meat-rations.



#15 Multivitz

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 12:58 PM

Phosphotidylcholine would grow new receptors and having L-Tyrosine in balance should work along with a fair vitamin D3 consumpion/production. And of course excitement and stimulation of one's self!

#16 us3yournam3

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 10:40 PM

Please stop this nonsense, you don't have any "disorders", this is a make belief word, just like "psychiatrists", "neuro specialists", etc. Stop taking bupropion, its anticholinergic effect is purely ridicilous and fucks up your brain, simply put. I can't judge stimulants though, haven't laid my hands on any of them so far, but imho they should be somewhat similar to coffee.

 

Also, fuck dieting, go expend yourself and then eat to replenish with lots of water. That's the number one rule in dieting. Next, avoid ridicilous stimuli that waste you: pornography, masturbation, cigarettes, refrain from sex when there is work to be done. Finally and arguably most importantly, go live and love, do things that do you good, that do all humans good, and avoid the bad, please be happy. Also drop out of college, you know it is a grotesque institution.


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#17 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 02:53 AM

Please stop this nonsense, you don't have any "disorders", this is a make belief word, just like "psychiatrists", "neuro specialists", etc. Stop taking bupropion, its anticholinergic effect is purely ridicilous and fucks up your brain, simply put. I can't judge stimulants though, haven't laid my hands on any of them so far, but imho they should be somewhat similar to coffee.

 

Also, fuck dieting, go expend yourself and then eat to replenish with lots of water. That's the number one rule in dieting. Next, avoid ridicilous stimuli that waste you: pornography, masturbation, cigarettes, refrain from sex when there is work to be done. Finally and arguably most importantly, go live and love, do things that do you good, that do all humans good, and avoid the bad, please be happy. Also drop out of college, you know it is a grotesque institution.

 

Wow, rarely have I seen someone so ill-informed and scientifically uneducated as you, here on Longecity.

"Disorder" is a generic word that when used in the context of medical science is basically a nicer way of saying "disease" or "illness".

 

https://en.wikipedia...isease#Disorder

 

If someone like you had their way, then millions of people would be dead within days. Many, many diseases can be described as disorders of an organ or system in the body - an excellent example would be diabetes - a disorder(s) within the metabolic system.

 

Also, for an FYI - I've done Karate, dancing, weight-lifting, bicycling and free-running, and all expending does is either NOTHING, or cause burn-out. Likewise, no-fap does nothing, refraining from sex was common in the past (before I was an adult...) and did nothing.

 

I don't smoke, so that does nothing.

 

I don't drink, so that does nothing.

 

And "eating and drinking water"... what, how old do you think I am? THREE YEARS OLD? I would vaguer I eat and drink a lot better than you - I don't drink coffee, soda, tea, or alcohol - pretty much nothing but water. I eat nothing but whole meal grains, no processed food (sausages and rubbish like that), I eat super-foods like blueberries and raspberries daily, I eat a great deal of leafy green vegetables.

 

And it does nothing.

 

So seriously, dude, you obviously don't know a first thing about TRUE genetic illness of the dopaminergic, glutamatergic and norepinephrinergic systems in the brain - so shut up.


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#18 us3yournam3

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 08:31 PM

You're being ridiculous right now, just like I was, you're either gonna incorporate some radical habits within your daily life or you're gonna remain a shitty little excuse-making machine, who is toxic on top of all. Please keep away of "burn out", and die lying in your comfy bed, so the rest of us can have it easier.


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#19 gamesguru

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 10:34 PM

oh my god. would a mod please change your name to HateMachine? you were doing so well for the first 25 words. is he even taking pharms? i think he does it on top of cannabis, so any burning out cannot be wholly attributed to the pharms. and do not tell people to please die so the rest of us can have it easier, not even if you're talking to your mother about your wife.



#20 us3yournam3

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 02:41 AM

#motivation

Edited by us3yournam3, 10 July 2016 - 02:41 AM.

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#21 Vestpocket

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 02:45 AM

#motivation
#motivation

Prevented by genuine clinical major depression, despite exercise and positive, enviable life circumstances.

People who feel bad because circumstances and lifestyle choices are bad are not clinically depressed. They are responding perfectly normally to both things. You are talking about those people and annoying the rest with your naive judgements.


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Edited by Vestpocket, 10 July 2016 - 02:46 AM.

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#22 us3yournam3

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 02:53 AM

There exists no such thing as a major clinical depression, that's a made up label by and for people who like to jizz around all day.
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#23 jaiho

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 04:45 AM

There exists no such thing as a major clinical depression, that's a made up label by and for people who like to jizz around all day.

 

Haha as ignorant as a conservative


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#24 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 10:17 PM

@us3yournam3:

These sound-bytes of yours aren't very convincing.

Mind producing some scientific evidence for any of these fantasies of yours?

https://en.wikipedia...ntific_evidence
 

 

oh my god. would a mod please change your name to HateMachine? you were doing so well for the first 25 words. is he even taking pharms? i think he does it on top of cannabis, so any burning out cannot be wholly attributed to the pharms. and do not tell people to please die so the rest of us can have it easier, not even if you're talking to your mother about your wife.

 

 

Actually, I'm a tee-totaller - much as I don't drink alcohol or smoke tobacco, I don't use Cannabis either - I'm not really a fan of chemical recreation, it's just not my thing. (I actually think I might have workaholic tendencies, and my depressive and anxious states are a result of my physical inability to fulfil that drive - if there's a God, she's got a real mean sense of humour.)

According to Dr. Russell Barkley, punishment-sensitivity is an observed part of the pathology of SCT, so I suppose reward-INsensitivity is a possible development as well.
 

I would say the burnout-process started somewhere around the age of 21-22, which is around the same time as aging sets in as well - which is logical, since endurance and physical ability decreases with age, so it makes sense that the circumstances regarding my state of being would start to wear me out by then - I would say pharmacology has indeed at times accelerated the process, but it began years before I was prescribed or self-prescribed any sort of pharmacology, so my final analysis of my pharmacological treatment is slightly positive - it slowed the process down for a while.

 

Which is, again, unsurprisingly, in accordance with current SCT-treatment prognosis - medications help, but only a little bit.

 

At the end of the day, there's just no way to *really* make the Elephant man happy without doing something about that skin disorder, now is there?



#25 gamesguru

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 08:55 AM

This man is of course not depressed because he doesn't jizz, because he is rude to the ladies. He's ignorant, but at least funny (in a backhanded way).

As for the burnout, it can't be age related. Look at some of the best scientific discoveries, the most pentrating philosphical insights. They often came after the age of 40. I'm thinking your problem is related to lifestyle. Too many toxins going in, and not enough of an ongoing education. I guess I confused you for jaiho, heh. It could also be mostly in your head, (i know it's not saying much, but) you seem far more cognizant than your average person. Is it an emotional problem? You seem fine, cognitively.

#26 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 11:12 PM

 I wrote half a novel about myself. The core is at the bottom though.

 

Hmm, maybe you're right - at least partially.

 

The burnout isn't to hard to figure out, no that you mention it: It's about over-achievment.

I was raised by a narcissist - complete with old-school value about not showing weakness, and physical methods. Resulting in trauma.

That's always there.

 

Upon further consideration my greater burnout did not begin until I made the correct analyzis and got a diagnosis for my Neuro-psychiatric Disorder.

 

At the time I had beaten depression with environmental change and excercise:

Quit job as engineer -> became artist -> entered art-school (supportive environment) -> began dating -> began excercising -> improved diet.

 

Burnout then started setting in at this moment:

-> started learning french -> started learning karate -> started learning dancing -> BURNOUT FATIGUE!

 

I then quit some activities, such as french and dance, yet I still noticed a recurring sense of fatigue. Especially at times of high performance, where I would push my boundaries, to enhance this new and improved me (trying to get into philosophy and Nietzche for instance - dear god, he's boring!) - I quickly noticed that no matter how much I tried, I could not achieve the greater goals that I had.

 

Hence my study of ADHD, with the PI-presentation, and eventually SCT -> achieved diagnosis -> began treatment.

 

Treatment failing - > increased anxiety -> small bout of dystymia.

 

It's rather interesting, my burnout - because I'm usually not very depressed - I don't feel to bad, really. It's merely the realization that any goal I set or attempt, which is in any way on par or above par, will fail, that sends me into a slump - > my first instinct is always to fight with every single weapon at my disposal - > BURNOUT!

 

 

 

Me being cognizant is actually a part of the problem.

 

I have analysed myself and the issues at hand to a great degree -- I know the problem is genetic, and treatment is failing.

I even often know everything I must do to resolve any given situation - I often plan ahead a great deal - I am simply unable to follow through - sometimes to even write down the resolution which I know will work.

 

Knowing that I will never be what I want to be, is killing me, because I refuse to not be everything I can be - but my ability to respond to environment is not sufficient to reach a resolution.

 

I need to change my approach - use my upcoming respite to enact a new system of doing things - a complete rehaul once again. The new system has to use social support to enact these as well, since my performance is often dramatically increased in such settings - the western highly individual societal method is simply not fitting for my particular neuroanatomy. Time to accept this.

 

Otherwise I'll end up like Leo Di Caprio's character in The Revenant...



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#27 us3yournam3

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:23 AM

 

The burnout isn't to hard to figure out, no that you mention it: It's about over-achievment.

After a burn out, you go and rest.

A burnout happens when you're trying to accomplish something, all the while ignoring your being. What we should be doing is accomplishing ourselves so that we can more easily accomplish anything else.

 

There is absolutely no other purer way other than exercising, if you abandon exercising, you might as well pack your things and abandon all the ships. If you feel anxious after training you were doing it wrong (something that took me a lot of time to realize). What I'm trying to do is find good sparring partners, good teachers and quality exposure to pain, one can not beat life alone, how could you ever (alone) make yourself feel everything that you need to feel in order to grow? That's a path I'm not willing to undertake, yet at least, I know I'm not ready.

And I'm telling you, you're all simply ridiculous with your genetics and upbringing and crap.


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