13 replies to this topic

[sshazam]

I've been using Piracetam on and off for the last 2 years or so. 

I've started taking about 4.2 - 4.8 grams a day for the last 30 days or so and found that i'm not getting any of the effects that I have in the past. I've found it worked brilliantly in the past for me especially when combining with Alcar.  

I"m lost as to why this time i'm not getting the same effect, Could it be because my product is 2 years old ? 

Any suggestions on how I can get to the bottom of this ? 

Thanks for all the help 

[gamesguru]

dat dere ScienceGuy attack dose hittin da nails on de tolerance hammer.

piracetam stays good about 3 years unless you store it in de sauna, oxygenated room, or bucket o water

Edited by gamesguru, 16 June 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[sshazam]

dat dere ScienceGuy attack dose hittin da nails on de tolerance hammer.

piracetam stays good about 3 years unless you store it in de sauna, oxygenated room, or bucket o water

 

What do you mean hitting nails on tolerance ? 

I have cycled off it for 6 months. So only recently started back up on it. 

 

Hmm it's just been in it's container, haven't noticed any clumps to show it's been oxygenated. The supplier also came highly recommended as well. 

[gamesguru]

i mean its probly just tolerance. lots of people report that response, losing effects over weeks to months, with a honeymoon phase upon re-initiation. try mixing it up (cycling) with another racetam, noopept, or just herbals. maybe somebody else knows a way to "reset" the piracetam tolerance, but i suggest just taking breaks. its even controversial if this "piracetam tolerance" exists, but i suspect it does. just my opinion.

[sshazam]

i mean its probly just tolerance. lots of people report that response, losing effects over weeks to months, with a honeymoon phase upon re-initiation. try mixing it up (cycling) with another racetam, noopept, or just herbals. maybe somebody else knows a way to "reset" the piracetam tolerance, but i suggest just taking breaks. its even controversial if this "piracetam tolerance" exists, but i suspect it does. just my opinion.

 

Thanks for the help ! 

Just strange as usually I use Piracetam for 6 months then take a break and use it another 6 months. 

This time i've taken about  a 6 - 8 month break and only started using it again for the last 30 days. 

Would increasing or decreasing my dose help ? 

[gamesguru]

ScienceGuy might even suggest 9.6grams. i wouldn't. it's probably safe, but i think just overkill, totally diminishing returns.

i would suggest backing down to 800mg like a week out of the month, even skip it 0mg. that could make the effect more potent, on the remaining 3 weeks. play it how you feel, your choice. i tended not to go above 2.4g, so i was sensitive response, or i "played it safe"

 

im waiting for someone else to chime in on the tolerance idea. if it's really tolerance, big assumption, maybe NMDA antagonist would help? and if you got headaches, common suggestion is choline.

Edited by gamesguru, 16 June 2016 - 02:34 AM.

[sshazam]

ScienceGuy might even suggest 9.6grams. i wouldn't. it's probably safe, but i think just overkill, totally diminishing returns.

 

i would suggest backing down to 800mg like a week out of the month, even skip it 0mg. that could make the effect more potent, on the remaining 3 weeks. play it how you feel, your choice. i tended not to go above 2.4g, so i was sensitive response, or i "played it safe"

 

I did attack dose a bit at the start and i've tried playing around with the doses. Even skipping taking any some days but that didn't help heaps. 

Kind of annoying as I have exams coming up in the next few days. 

Would consuming choline (eat more eggs) help ? 

[gamesguru]

perhaps the choline would help, i really don't know enough about piracetam's mechanism and long-term adaptation to say. it's also been a long time since i, myself, used it or choline. you could try a 2-for-1 with huperzine, it boosts acetylcholine and inhibits NMDA. the NMDA site is generally involved in stimulant action and tolerance, with caffeine as a notable exception.

 

Huperzine A, a nootropic alkaloid, inhibits N-methyl-D-aspartate-induced current in rat dissociated hippocampal neurons.
Zhang JM1, Hu GY. (2001)

Huperzine A, a nootropic alkaloid isolated from a Chinese herb, has been proposed as one of the most promising agents to treat Alzheimer's disease. Recently, the agent was found to inhibit the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors in rat cerebral cortex in addition to causing an inhibitory effect on acetylcholinesterase. In the present study, the mechanisms underlying NMDA receptor inhibition were investigated using whole-cell voltage-clamp recording in CA1 pyramidal neurons acutely dissociated from rat hippocampus. Huperzine A reversibly inhibited the NMDA-induced current (IC(50)=126 microM, Hill coefficient=0.92), whereas it had no effect on the current induced by alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazole propionate or kainate. The effect was non-competitive, and showed neither 'voltage-dependency', nor 'use-dependency'. The IC(50) values of huperzine A were neither altered by changing the concentrations of glycine (2-0.2 microM) and pH (7.4-6.7) in the external solution, nor by addition of Zn(2+) (5 microM) and dithiothreitol (5 mM) to the external solution. However, addition of spermine (200 microM) to the external solution caused a parallel shift to the right of the huperzine A concentration-response curve. From these we suggest that huperzine A acts as a non-competitive antagonist of the NMDA receptors, via a competitive interaction with one of the polyamine binding sites. The potential relevance of NMDA receptor antagonist activity of huperzine A to the treatment of Alzheimer's disease is discussed.

[psychejunkie]

Have you tried Choline with it?

How about taking smaller doses? some people experience benefits from small doses (like 200-400mg), like me.

[normalizing]

guys why do you bullshit him, he has reached hormesis, take it from a veteran here, me! ive done about 1000 drugs and substances of various origin and reason, they all stop working after a while. good luck!

[gamesguru]

the huperzine is not bullshit
do they stop working for more than a month, not usually. it's tolerance. very rarely is it permanent.

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Edited by gamesguru, 16 June 2016 - 03:42 AM.

[thedevinroy]

Our chemistry changes all the time. Huperzine A used to give me crazy recall. I take 800 mcg a day now just to get to half what I got at 400 mcg. Strattera used to give me incredible brain power and forethought - apathy disappeared. Now it has 20% the effect at the dose I took in college.

Part of this is due to the first timer effect. Much like a placebo, we are excited to try something new that enhances our cognition and actually works. We are frustrated when those effects become less noticeable.

The other part of it has to do with DNA transcription factors and a lack of neurofeedback. Your body does what it wants to at a cellular level to reach a happy potential, but it thinks happy is one thing and you know it to be something different. When you enhance the feedback, your body starts working as a system a bit better.

Think of it in terms of the neuroplastic effect from learning a new science or sport even. You learn how to master equations, new ways of looking at problems, learn how to use muscle groups in new ways, your nervous system starts pumping out growth factors and making new connections. When you have an intense learning experience, your brain is constantly getting feedback by your level of productivity and growth in absolute or externally relevant terms. I have to quickly learn CFD for a project with a due date and still draft valves while waiting, have 20 people coming to my house this weekend, have a new roommate, going to be seeing my ex girlfriend this weekend maybe, and I have my first psych appointment since my move out here tomorrow morning. None of that would be possible if I didn't challenge myself like coming to these forums again. I'm still so far from getting ready for the party this weekend, but I'm not tripping - I'm focused because I have feedback helping me operate better.

So yeah, rotating smart drugs is a good idea. However, it's not just due to tolerance, it's also that excitement of noticing something different that helps, having that open mind mixed with a hyper awareness. If a coin drops, we all hear it, but when a mouse squeaks, we think it's a person's shoe or whatever don't care, because that's what we were or were not listening for. Keep your mind aware of all the differences, great and small.

And double your dose. Keep some magnesium on hand to counteract side effects.

Next, start finding new synergies. If you look at my thread on Pramiracetam or Phenylpiracetam, you'll see me talk about Potassium and Sodium having synergistic effects - uncanny, really.

Lastly, your batch has definitely degraded. There was a study done on shelf life and medicine. In most cases, you can just take more of the old pills without added side effects or toxicity to achieve the same effect.

Edited by devinthayer, 17 June 2016 - 03:22 AM.

[normalizing]

devinthayer its called hormesis

[YOLF]

Our chemistry changes all the time. Huperzine A used to give me crazy recall. I take 800 mcg a day now just to get to half what I got at 400 mcg. Strattera used to give me incredible brain power and forethought - apathy disappeared. Now it has 20% the effect at the dose I took in college.

Part of this is due to the first timer effect. Much like a placebo, we are excited to try something new that enhances our cognition and actually works. We are frustrated when those effects become less noticeable.

The other part of it has to do with DNA transcription factors and a lack of neurofeedback. Your body does what it wants to at a cellular level to reach a happy potential, but it thinks happy is one thing and you know it to be something different. When you enhance the feedback, your body starts working as a system a bit better.

Think of it in terms of the neuroplastic effect from learning a new science or sport even. You learn how to master equations, new ways of looking at problems, learn how to use muscle groups in new ways, your nervous system starts pumping out growth factors and making new connections. When you have an intense learning experience, your brain is constantly getting feedback by your level of productivity and growth in absolute or externally relevant terms. I have to quickly learn CFD for a project with a due date and still draft valves while waiting, have 20 people coming to my house this weekend, have a new roommate, going to be seeing my ex girlfriend this weekend maybe, and I have my first psych appointment since my move out here tomorrow morning. None of that would be possible if I didn't challenge myself like coming to these forums again. I'm still so far from getting ready for the party this weekend, but I'm not tripping - I'm focused because I have feedback helping me operate better.

So yeah, rotating smart drugs is a good idea. However, it's not just due to tolerance, it's also that excitement of noticing something different that helps, having that open mind mixed with a hyper awareness. If a coin drops, we all hear it, but when a mouse squeaks, we think it's a person's shoe or whatever don't care, because that's what we were or were not listening for. Keep your mind aware of all the differences, great and small.

And double your dose. Keep some magnesium on hand to counteract side effects.

Next, start finding new synergies. If you look at my thread on Pramiracetam or Phenylpiracetam, you'll see me talk about Potassium and Sodium having synergistic effects - uncanny, really.

Lastly, your batch has definitely degraded. There was a study done on shelf life and medicine. In most cases, you can just take more of the old pills without added side effects or toxicity to achieve the same effect.

 

The degradation should be minimal... iirc the studies done on potency loss are old and from a time when purities were low and everything comes with a desiccant nowadays. 

 

I have to wonder what happens when taking all of these racetams long term. Most seem to lower hormones that are important for dopamine sensitivity and maintaining brain health in the long term or might be thought to do so when looking at other markers. This can be countered somewhat, but iirc most racetams were made for terminal patients. How are we certain they are safe for young people, esp. college students to be using?