6 replies to this topic

[vader]

I'm not pointing fingers here, but i always believed that caffeine could be implicated in at least 50% of issues we are dealing here. Especially memory issues, vision issues, erectile dysfunction and low libido / motivation / depression. I'm talking about heavy use here - 500+mg daily for years. This has to have some bad side effects especially coupled with chronic alcoholism, smoking and bad diet.

 

Ok, lets give a direct example of what i'm talking here. Caffein rises cortisol dramatically. Here are various situations when i was caffeine free:

- last week on the airport about 10am i was sitting, waiting for the plane and i havent drank coffee yet (splitting headache was developing), suddenly my vision became extremely sharp - i noticed some woman looking at me, she stared at me for like 10 or 20 seconds, this never happens when on caffeine - low cortisol is a potent aphrodisiac AND it shows in your body language - relaxed, open, etc.

- once i went one week without coffee and a friend of mine (female) commented how i calm i was, how different i was

- my digestion improves dramatically if i dont drink coffee

 

I am an addict imho. I cant go without at least one coffee and most days i consume up to 10+ coffees.

[brainmousse]

I'm interested in this as well


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[Wingless]

I don't know if you could say I'm a heavy coffee drinker, but the most I ever drink is 3 cups a day. I regularly take tolerance breaks, however, where I'll only a few cups of green tea (ideally decaf) per day for a week or two.

 

For me it acts as a reliable aphrodisiac, with pro-social and pro-cognitive effects, alleviating depression, and it actually actually helps digestion in my case. I've never noticed the vision thing you mentioned, though I am without a doubt more calm and at ease when I'm well into a caffeine detox. I definitely think that drinking 3 cups of coffee a day can increase my irritability and stress as well.

 

I notice such a wide range of positive effects from coffee that the positives outweigh the negatives. I think it's best used once a week or so. I can't imagine ever going caffeine-free for good.

 

There are a few sources that indicate chronic caffeine impairs hippocampal neurogenesis...which is certainly disconcerting.

 

Neurogenesis continues through adulthood in the hippocampus and olfactory bulb of mammals. Adult neurogenesis has been implicated in learning and memory, and linked with depression. Hippocampal neurogenesis is increased in response to a number of stimuli, including exposure to an enriched environment, increased locomotor activity, and administration of antidepressants. Adult neurogenesis is depressed in response to aging, stress and sleep deprivation. Intriguingly, caffeine modulates a number of these same stimuli in a dose-dependent manner. We examined the dose and duration dependent effects of caffeine on the proliferation, differentiation, and survival of newly generated hippocampal neurons in adult mice. Extended, 7-day caffeine administration, alters the proliferation of adult hippocampal precursors in the mouse in a dose dependent manner; moderate to high doses (20–30mg/kg/day) of caffeine depress proliferation while supraphysiological doses (60mg/kg/day) increase proliferation of neuronal precursors. Acute, 1-day administration had no affect on proliferation. Caffeine administration does not affect the expression of early or late markers of neuronal differentiation, or rates of long-term survival. However, neurons induced in response to supraphysiological levels of caffeine have a lower survival rate than control cells; increased proliferation does not yield an increase in long-term neurogenesis. These results demonstrate that physiologically relevant doses of caffeine can significantly depress adult hippocampal neurogenesis.

→ source (external link)

Edited by Wingless, 10 July 2016 - 03:27 PM.

[jroseland]

You guys know I lived in the motherland of truly great coffee for 2 years; Medellin, Colombia, where I had a passionate love affair with the anti-oxidizing dark nectar. I frequently hung out at some of the best cafes in the world there, which served straight black coffee that was as smooth as wine going down, I was got quiet hooked on the stuff.

Then I moved to Europe, where I proceeded to have short term relationships with various cities and countries. It would be an understatement to say that I found it a challenge to find coffee in Europe that measures up to the standards that Medellin set so high.
Sometimes I'd find a good cafe but in a short matter of time, I'd move on to a new town and my search would begin a new.
My search for great coffee was confounded by Europeans delusional optimism about their coffee; they are quick to call Starbucks out for the garbage brand it is but woefully unawares that most of the coffee served here is no better. Every trendy young European I met was quick to assure me that I could find truly great coffee in their city, yet they need to dilute and load it up with milk, cream to make it barely palatable.

Now my snobbishness is not just because I can't stomach sub par coffee. As I've become more mindful of how what I consume effects my mood, focus and productivity, I've become more aware of the negative effect that bad coffee has on my day.

I begrudgingly reached the decision that I needed to go off coffee or at least cut back sharply on the stuff - make it a once a week type treat instead of a daily habit. Which turned out to be pretty rough; Caffeine is the second most addictive Nootropic I've become acquainted with. I would quit for a few days and then have some and be disappointed.

However, eventually I discovered an energizing morning cocktail that replaced and effectively assuaged my coffee withdrawals.

Adaptogenic Herbal Tea
This is a cocktail of three potent tonic herbs from traditional Chinese and Russian medicine; Rhodiola Rosea, Eleuthero and Schisandra Chinensis.
Day one of no coffee is usually the roughest, so I was amazed to find my caffeine withdrawals none-existent when I started using Adapogenic Herbal Tea. While it doesn't quiet imbue the peppy headspace that coffee does, it's a stimulant that helps wake you up and evens out your mood.

Black Tea
At cafes I began ordering Black Tea, it's sometimes called the man's tea because of it's slightly bitter, yet hearty, savory taste. All cafes serve it, it's cheap and it doesn't have the mycotoxin fermentation issues that so much coffee does. Black tea does have some caffeine in it, so it's not like I've gone cold turkey off the 1,3,7 Trimythelxanthine that I so adore.

Nicotine USP Solution
Finally I began starting my mornings with a drop under the tongue of this pharmaceutical grade Nicotine. It is addictive so you need to regulate yourself and be strict about not letting your daily dosage creep up. It provides a near instantaneous boost of alertness and focus.

In my days as a raver I remember a DJ friend of mine lamenting that Ecstasy is a great drug but an inconsistent one; sometimes you drop a pill and your friends are awesome, the music is nearly orgasm inducing and the night is epic but sometimes you drop a pill and it doesn't work, you get paranoid, the crowd is annoying and you awake Serotonin depleted with the emptiness in your soul crying out to you. Anyone who's done much Ecstasy knows what I'm talking about. Thank god I didn't know about Phenibut at the time. I might still be a raver.

I feel kind of the same about coffee as a performance enhancer; sometimes it's the wind to the sales of my productivity but a lot of times, and the hover board that elevates my mood but sometimes it just barely assuages my chemical dependence and leaves me frenetic. My current Nootropic cocktail for a kickass morning is all the more potent and reliable. If you've carried on a rocky, on-and-off daily relationship for far too long with coffee that often leaves you high and dry I hope you'll try it!

[Dichotohmy]

Thus applies to stimulants in general, but especially caffeine, in that I only get a few hours of positive effects from the first intake and that's it. By that I mean I can realistically expect 1-3 hours of positive stimulant effects before these benefits give way to just anti-somnolence and undesirable adrenalin-like effects. Trying to chase the positive effects by drinking more coffee or tea later never seems to work and realistically will only produce the negative and neutral effects once I'm out of the 1-3 hour window.

This window of positive effects can only be recharged by sleeping. Once my brain has used up whatever produces the positive effects, I'm out of luck. In the past, foolishly trying to chase the positive effects did give me problems with ADHD hyperactivity, anxiety, loss of focus, and more. I can definitely say I am much better from cutting back and only drinking coffee and tea during my small window of opporitunity early in the day.

[vader]

I don't know if you could say I'm a heavy coffee drinker, but the most I ever drink is 3 cups a day. I regularly take tolerance breaks, however, where I'll only a few cups of green tea (ideally decaf) per day for a week or two.

 

For me it acts as a reliable aphrodisiac, with pro-social and pro-cognitive effects, alleviating depression, and it actually actually helps digestion in my case. I've never noticed the vision thing you mentioned, though I am without a doubt more calm and at ease when I'm well into a caffeine detox. I definitely think that drinking 3 cups of coffee a day can increase my irritability and stress as well.

 

I notice such a wide range of positive effects from coffee that the positives outweigh the negatives. I think it's best used once a week or so. I can't imagine ever going caffeine-free for good.

 

There are a few sources that indicate chronic caffeine impairs hippocampal neurogenesis...which is certainly disconcerting.

 

Neurogenesis continues through adulthood in the hippocampus and olfactory bulb of mammals. Adult neurogenesis has been implicated in learning and memory, and linked with depression. Hippocampal neurogenesis is increased in response to a number of stimuli, including exposure to an enriched environment, increased locomotor activity, and administration of antidepressants. Adult neurogenesis is depressed in response to aging, stress and sleep deprivation. Intriguingly, caffeine modulates a number of these same stimuli in a dose-dependent manner. We examined the dose and duration dependent effects of caffeine on the proliferation, differentiation, and survival of newly generated hippocampal neurons in adult mice. Extended, 7-day caffeine administration, alters the proliferation of adult hippocampal precursors in the mouse in a dose dependent manner; moderate to high doses (20–30mg/kg/day) of caffeine depress proliferation while supraphysiological doses (60mg/kg/day) increase proliferation of neuronal precursors. Acute, 1-day administration had no affect on proliferation. Caffeine administration does not affect the expression of early or late markers of neuronal differentiation, or rates of long-term survival. However, neurons induced in response to supraphysiological levels of caffeine have a lower survival rate than control cells; increased proliferation does not yield an increase in long-term neurogenesis. These results demonstrate that physiologically relevant doses of caffeine can significantly depress adult hippocampal neurogenesis.

→ source (external link)

 

"moderate to high doses (20–30mg/kg/day) of caffeine depress proliferation while supraphysiological doses (60mg/kg/day) increase proliferation of neuronal precursors"

 

This is certainly interesting. i know that caffeine in doses over 2 gram/day gives complete tolerance. So maybe the way out of caffeine habit is actually switching to tablets and building up to 2+ gram doses a day?

[gamesguru]

co-administer something with overpowering (+)proliferative effects? like some fine japanese tea, or some who knows what

imagine the withdrawal effects on 2g, and i would be curious to re-confirm the increase proliferation. because that much caffeine can actually be excito- and cyto-toxic.

i would expect grogginess and a desirable carefree apathy, as rebound effects.

Edited by gamesguru, 11 July 2016 - 06:44 PM.