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Fish oil causing my depression?

depression anxiety acetylcholine choline fish oil

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#31 Jordan23

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:31 AM

Ok I tried 250mg today, First thing I noticed was a headache, got slight anxiety, feeling heartbeat in chest, then started feeling pretty crappy, i'd say worse than normal. Though I may have been trending that way regardless.

Going to try 500mg tomorrow, and see what happens. 



#32 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 11:09 AM

Excellent.

 

Now you will know for certain - do you have high choline or not?

 

Btw, did you notice any improvement in symptoms from a dose of Diphenhydramine in response to the feelings you got from Alpha-GPC?



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#33 Jordan23

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:29 PM

I chose not to take any DPH after the CDP-choline and just let it run its course. After about 5-6 hours the negative feelings subsided and I have since felt much better. Almost as if the brain responded to the acetylcholine with a dopamine/serotonin rebound (not sure).

Anyway I will be taking the DPH after the larger dose test tomorrow, mostly because I don't want to have any nightmares but also as you said to test its affects. I'll be taking the CDP-choline at night when I typically feel much better so that I can be sure that I am not just feeling typical 'daytime blues'.

If its the case i'm thinking my solution might just be to start boosting dopamine/norepinephrine and serotonin with some tyrosine and tryptophan accordingly (already purchased some). Seeing as the benadryl comes with unbearable dizziness/nausea and its somewhat difficult to come across other anticholgernics here in Australia. I would also consider re-taking an SSRI or SNRI or some other antidepressant but i'm not sure whether this would be better than just boosting those transmitters directly. One benefit I can think of for AD's is nuerogenesis, but my knowledge is limited about this.



#34 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:43 PM

Those sound like good supplements for sure.

If you want to boost dopamine and antagonise acetylcholine-receptors, there's also a potentially more fitting AD than most: Bupropion. (wellbutrin, voxra)

 

It works as an NDRI, which means you'll have norepinephrine and dopamine floating around in your brain for a longer amount of time than normally. However, it's also an antagonist of a wide variety of Nicotinic-Acetylcholine-receptors (whereas benadryl mostly affects muscarinic acetylcholine receptors), which means that you would get some much-needed antagonism of that as well.

 

 

I'd truly like you to try Piracetam before that though - I actually think it might be useful, but we won't know until someone with high choline tries it out.


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#35 Jordan23

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM

Update:

 

 

So I tried 500mg of CDP-choline with food yesterday. First thing I noticed again was a blistering headache, followed by some intense muscle twitching/spasming and shaking all over my body. I noticed my heart beating intensely in my chest. Then my vision started going blurry and out of focus. I experienced some very mild anxiety. A few hours later I started feeling quite depressed which lasted most of the night then steadily improved. 

 

Unlike the day before I took the CDP-choline this time feeling pretty great beforehand, so I know it wasn't my typical depressed mood.

Next step now is to wait for the tryptophan to arrive from the US. I already have the tyrosine but unfortunately tryptophan can't be purchased here. I'm wondering where I can find information about a good tryp/tyrosine ratio and dosage, I have no idea how much of each to take and at what times. I've read that the body cant synthesise them together very well. Any info on this would be great.

 

Unfortunately I won't be able to try piracetam, by the time I order it and wait for it to arrive it just won't be viable, sorry I couldn't be your test dummy for that.  :cool: If its any consolation I definitely don't have BPD anyway so I don't know if me trying it is going to help with your understanding of that disorder. 

I also spoke to my doctor about this just an hour ago, he was very intrigued and was keen to see me in a month after taking the tryp/tyro to see if I had improved.



#36 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:18 PM

Ask him for Bupropion as well then - you'll have every single acetylcholine-receptor covered with that one! = )

 

Interestingly enough... I seem to have naturally low choline - because I've actually got similar, yet not as dramatic side-effects from the anticholinergic effects of Bupropion right now! Especially the visual part - I've got blurred vision, and a difficulty focusing it.
It's a very rare side-effect, but as I have impaired verbal memory as well, I suppose I have naturally LOW choline, and is therefore more vulnerable to it.

 

It may be the reason why Promethease reports several genes which are supposed to make me more suceptible to nicotin-addiction, and it also reports ENHANCED dopainergic synthesis - those could all be signs toward some mechanisms which keep my choline down.



#37 Jordan23

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 11:10 AM

Ok so whilst waiting for my tryptophan order to arrive I decided to test the tyrosine at 500mg. I was feeling the usual low dopamine symptoms that day, anhedonia, low motivation etc. I took it with protein so it likely didn't do anything.

Later that night I took another 500mg of tyrosine because I was feeling rather low with the same aforementioned symptoms. Didn't notice any change but eventually went to bed. Then after waking in the middle of the night I felt an intense wave of what felt like adrenaline. It was very intense and thoughts of suicide kept arising for some reason, though I wasn't feeling very depressed at all.

I don't really understand why this happened, but what I have a theory that after taking the tyrosine at night at some point it was converted to dopamine, and then norepinephrine and possibly epinephrine (not sure about the difference between these two). I can only assume that the reason for this sudden release at night was due to acetylcholine. I had read somewhere that acetylcholine in small doses can realease dopamine and norepinephrine. I'm guessing that due to acetylcholine being released in REM sleep that this then caused the norepinephrine (and/or epinephrine) release. Obviously this doesn't happen to normal people so I'm assuming that because my serotonin is also low it was not there to inhibit NE and E release, another thing I have read somewhere.

Other than this I can't really understand why this at all happened. Any theories would be welcome.



My second issue is somewhat more scary. After those tyrosine doses I haven't taken any since, that was two days ago. Following that I hadn't noticed any/many low dopamine symptoms for at least a day and a half. This made me somewhat hopeful that at least the tyrosine had done something with my dopamine levels. However just now I am experiencing some extreme dyshoria and agitation. I feel incredibly uncomfortable and agitated and just want to scream and punch things. My attention is terrible and I am completely anhedonic. Basically just very very low dopamine symptoms.

I'm worried what this means. Sure it was to be somewhat expected that I would feel this way again without taking the tyrosine but why is it so bad now? It hasn't been this bad in a long while and only a few times have I felt like this. Could I have desensitised/down regulated my dopamine receptors with just 1 or 2 doses of tyrosine? If so what does this mean in terms of taking the tyrosine/tryptophan as a possible fix?

I don't want to fuck things up even more by down regulating my receptors.

Apologies for the long post.
Ok so whilst waiting for my tryptophan order to arrive I decided to test the tyrosine at 500mg. I was feeling the usual low dopamine symptoms that day, anhedonia, low motivation etc. I took it with protein so it likely didn't do anything.

Later that night I took another 500mg of tyrosine because I was feeling rather low with the same aforementioned symptoms. Didn't notice any change but eventually went to bed. Then after waking in the middle of the night I felt an intense wave of what felt like adrenaline. It was very intense and thoughts of suicide kept arising for some reason, though I wasn't feeling very depressed at all.

I don't really understand why this happened, but what I have a theory that after taking the tyrosine at night at some point it was converted to dopamine, and then norepinephrine and possibly epinephrine (not sure about the difference between these two). I can only assume that the reason for this sudden release at night was due to acetylcholine. I had read somewhere that acetylcholine in small doses can realease dopamine and norepinephrine. I'm guessing that due to acetylcholine being released in REM sleep that this then caused the norepinephrine (and/or epinephrine) release. Obviously this doesn't happen to normal people so I'm assuming that because my serotonin is also low it was not there to inhibit NE and E release, another thing I have read somewhere.

Other than this I can't really understand why this at all happened. Any theories would be welcome.



My second issue is somewhat more scary. After those tyrosine doses I haven't taken any since, that was two days ago. Following that I hadn't noticed any/many low dopamine symptoms for at least a day and a half. This made me somewhat hopeful that at least the tyrosine had done something with my dopamine levels. However just now I am experiencing some extreme dyshoria and agitation. I feel incredibly uncomfortable and agitated and just want to scream and punch things. My attention is terrible and I am completely anhedonic. Basically just very very low dopamine symptoms.

I'm worried what this means. Sure it was to be somewhat expected that I would feel this way again without taking the tyrosine but why is it so bad now? It hasn't been this bad in a long while and only a few times have I felt like this. Could I have desensitised/down regulated my dopamine receptors with just 1 or 2 doses of tyrosine? If so what does this mean in terms of taking the tyrosine/tryptophan as a possible fix?

I don't want to fuck things up even more by down regulating my receptors.

Apologies for the long post.

#38 Jordan23

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 04:52 AM

That last post was quite a mess apologies to anyone that tried to read it.

I think I worked out what the problem was. By taking the tyrosine on its own my brain likely converted it into dopamine and then into norepinepherine. It makes sense then that I felt quite ok for the first 2 days after using it but extremely agitated and uncomfortable afterwards. My muscles were also very tense as if they were permanently semi-contracted, and I felt quite aggressive. I think without enough serotonin to combat the high NE it just ran amok. I hope so anyway.

Anyways i've decided i'm going to contact a psychiatrist to see about a possibe buproprion + SSRI combination. Or even other options like an anti-parkonsonian. I just hope they are receptive to my acetylcholine theory and not stuck in the mud/narrow type thinking. 

I still want to try the trypto/tyrosine combo when it arrives, but I like the idea of blocking aCH receptors with buproprion, and the neurogenesis of SSRI's.


Edited by Jordan23, 14 August 2016 - 05:16 AM.


#39 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 08:11 AM

That last post was quite a mess apologies to anyone that tried to read it.

I think I worked out what the problem was. By taking the tyrosine on its own my brain likely converted it into dopamine and then into norepinepherine. It makes sense then that I felt quite ok for the first 2 days after using it but extremely agitated and uncomfortable afterwards. My muscles were also very tense as if they were permanently semi-contracted, and I felt quite aggressive. I think without enough serotonin to combat the high NE it just ran amok. I hope so anyway.

Anyways i've decided i'm going to contact a psychiatrist to see about a possibe buproprion + SSRI combination. Or even other options like an anti-parkonsonian. I just hope they are receptive to my acetylcholine theory and not stuck in the mud/narrow type thinking. 

I still want to try the trypto/tyrosine combo when it arrives, but I like the idea of blocking aCH receptors with buproprion, and the neurogenesis of SSRI's.

 

No worries about the last post, we all have our days. I made a similar one just yesterday.

 

Right... your theory sounds plausible - I don't think you should mention that you believe you have too high choline though, because in my experience Dr's are rarely receptive to advanced patient ideas - they will either feel threathened or that you are delusional and have it all wrong, in one way or another. If you were seeing a specialist on issues similar to specifically these symptoms, I would think differently - I have actually met one such Dr and know of a few others - specialists are curious, receptive to the latest data - they have to be, in order to help their fairly particular patients.

 

All you have to say is that you have anhedonia and depression, which I suppose is true as well? And that you have trouble sleeping, which is also true, and that you'd like to try the combo of Bupropion to help with depression and energy, and Diphenhydramine for sleep-issues and anxiety. ; )

 

All true, and all perfectly plausible reasons to give you these medications. Just be staunch that it is THESE medications you want to try. They should be elated over the Diphenhydramine suggestion, since it gives them a reason to NOT prescribe you a GABA-ergic.

 

Done and done, son! Ain't no friggin' way you could possibly not be helped with your choline-problems from such a combo! You've got nearly every aCh-receptor covered there...! If that doesn't affect ya', then my name is Earl.

 

And it ain't.

EDIT WHILE WRITING:

Except you mentioned that you had trouble with feeling overly stimulated.

If you downregulate your aCh-receptors to this extent, while taking Bupropion, which turns from a DNRI into a NDRI in your body, about one hour from ingestion, then... well, you might not like such high stimulation which should be the result.

 

Hmm... Well, you could always ask for an off-label perscription of MILNACIPRAN, to go along with Diphenhydramine.

 

https://en.wikipedia...an#Pharmacology

 

It's the first truly balanced SNRI - it should provide a majority of your needs at least - causes neurogenesis as well, as you can see. (and removes beta-amyloid-plaque! first AD to be proven to have that effect - it's good stuff for cognition, in other words.)



#40 Jordan23

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 01:36 PM

I was thinking more buproprion + SSRI combo like lexapro or prozac. Is this a common or possible medication combo? Would an SNRI like MILNACIPRAN be better than this combo? To be honest the diphenhydramine is somewhat unbearable because of the dizziness/headaches as side effects. I definitely do not want a GABA-ergic as they are highly addictive. 

I think the over stimulation and agitation is a result of high NE or NE release from the conversion of dopamine into NE. I think this wouldn't normally be a problem for people but I think I also have low serotonin too so there is nothing to combat it. Like dopamine and serotonin acting inversely i've read too that NE and serotonin work inversely. So if serotonin is boosted by either an SSRI or tryptophan then the NE would be kept in check. At least that is my theory anyway. I wonder if you think this holds up?

Also wondering which aCh receptors have been implicated in mood? I understand that at least some of the nicotinic receptors especially those targeted by buproprion seem to possibly be.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16156379

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20614106


There also seems to be muscarnic receptors involved too as per scopolamine being trialed as an AD. Perhaps there is something else that can target these receptors aswell a anti-parkonsonian perhaps?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23200525



#41 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

I was thinking more buproprion + SSRI combo like lexapro or prozac. Is this a common or possible medication combo? Would an SNRI like MILNACIPRAN be better than this combo? To be honest the diphenhydramine is somewhat unbearable because of the dizziness/headaches as side effects. I definitely do not want a GABA-ergic as they are highly addictive. 

I think the over stimulation and agitation is a result of high NE or NE release from the conversion of dopamine into NE. I think this wouldn't normally be a problem for people but I think I also have low serotonin too so there is nothing to combat it. Like dopamine and serotonin acting inversely i've read too that NE and serotonin work inversely. So if serotonin is boosted by either an SSRI or tryptophan then the NE would be kept in check. At least that is my theory anyway. I wonder if you think this holds up?

Also wondering which aCh receptors have been implicated in mood? I understand that at least some of the nicotinic receptors especially those targeted by buproprion seem to possibly be.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16156379

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20614106


There also seems to be muscarnic receptors involved too as per scopolamine being trialed as an AD. Perhaps there is something else that can target these receptors aswell a anti-parkonsonian perhaps?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23200525

 

Yeah ok, I give - combining Bupropion and an SSRI is one of the most common combinations there is - most often with good ol' Fluoxetine or Sertraline. And sure, it'll fix ya' up pretty good, methinks - seems to be a few well-tolerated therapies.

Use of bupropion in combination with serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16165100

 

There's supposed to be one which has one of those nick-names, like "California Rocket Fuel" (venlafaxine + mirtazapine), which is supposed to be extra good... can't recall or find it now though - too burnt out.

 

 

I'm still thinking in the ways of lowering your aCh though - with Bupropion you've got the Nicotinic receptors dead to rights - but ya' gotta' give them muscarinics a good thrashing! Your Scopolamine-find is highly intriguing though...! I must look further into that one - could be highly useful for BPD/EDD! : )

 

Regarding NaCh and mood btw - that would be the Nicotinic Alpha-7 -receptor - it controls a lot of the signalling coming out of the amygdala and into other parts of the brain - it both inhibits and enhances signal-strength. I'm doing a whole thing on that one in the BPD-thread, and how I see modulating it as a means of controlling BPD/EDD -hyper-emotionality: fMRI scans have showed that they have alterations in the Fronto-Amygdal loop, and genetic data shows they have ULTRA-production (a form of methylation-mutation) of Acetylcholine!

 

That sorta' cholinergic activity is bound ta' wreck havoc with ya', that's fer' sure.

 

EDIT:

 

In theory, a single medication to treat symptoms with, has less potential side-effects than two combined, hence why I suggested Milnacipram.


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 14 August 2016 - 02:23 PM.


#42 permhealing

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:08 AM

Can I ask how does fish oil or omega 3 fats increase choline or Ach?

 

I did some searching and couldn't see how omega 3 gets converted to Ach.

 

I only saw that fish oil combined with choline and uridine could help make cell membranes.



#43 Jordan23

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 12:48 PM

I honestly don't know, I know it is a potent source of choline but I have not been able to find out how much it has or anything.



#44 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:22 PM

I believe it's an important component in the enzymes responsible for altering basic choline into other, bio-active forms.


"Control of phosphatidylcholine synthesis in Hep G2 cells. Effect of fatty acids on the activity and immunoreactive content of choline phosphate cytidylyltransferase."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1848848

Phosphatidylcholine is then a direct precursor to acetylcholine.

If I was to vaguer a guess... you lads already have very efficient enzymes which create aCh out of pCh, so, you get smacked with a motherload of aCh when you stock up on omega-3, since you get so much raw-materials for pCh.

Perhaps you also have some impairment in the pathways which then alters excess aCh into other products, or other pathways which use pCh for other compounds than aCh.

Hence you feed into an underlying genetic imbalance which is ussually not a problem, with a more balanced diet.

#45 Jordan23

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:19 PM

So I took 500mg tryptophan tonight and I felt terrible afterwards. Admittedly I wasn't feeling great beforehand but it just made it so much worse.

I felt intense sadness and wanted to cry. Much unlike my other type of depression which is more anhedonic.

I'm just utterly confused now what is going on with me. I don't understand how the tryptophan could have made me feel worse. I thought I was suffering from a serotonin deficiency.

#46 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 02:48 PM

So I took 500mg tryptophan tonight and I felt terrible afterwards. Admittedly I wasn't feeling great beforehand but it just made it so much worse.

I felt intense sadness and wanted to cry. Much unlike my other type of depression which is more anhedonic.

I'm just utterly confused now what is going on with me. I don't understand how the tryptophan could have made me feel worse. I thought I was suffering from a serotonin deficiency.

 

This sounds an awful lot like ANXIETY. And, I'm sorry to say, but anxiety isn't caused by a serotonin-deficiency, it's caused by an EXCESS - newer fMRI scans have proven that serotonergic hyper-activity in the brain is responsible for several anxiety-disorders.

 

SSRI's don't work on anxiety the way we thought they did - they work by overloading the serotonin-receptors, which causes the body to decrease serotonin-production, which leads to improved symptoms.

 

This is one of the reasons why Tianeptine, which works partially through serotonin reuptake ENHANCEMENT is so effective for anxiety: it treats the problem at least in part, at the core.

 

SSRE's is an area which needs more research - it could be DAMN GOOD, and DAMN SIDE-EFFECT-FREE stuff.

 

And hey, I actually think it's possible to not have low serotonin even if you have high choline. Just get back to lowering that Choline - I thought you said you saw some improvement in symptoms?

 

Give Bupropion (wellbutrin, voxra) in combo with some other anticholinergic, a go. There are several others which you haven't tried yet - Diphenhydramine isn't the only option here, some are less sedating.

 

 

And you still haven't tried Piracetam, right? I'm still curious what the effect would be - it does show some antidepressant and anxiolytic effects, and it does deplete choline. There's also the fact that Borderliners find the chemical useful, and they actually have MEGA-HIGH choline! 0_o Perhaps it works by causing the body to down-regulate choline-production? Similar to how SSRI's work on serotonin.



#47 Jordan23

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:39 PM

Just to verify this definitely felt like depression. It was an intense feeling of sadness. Either way I would agree that I must have high serotonin, high aCH, and low dopamine. After the tyrptophan dose my sleep was a lot like when I was on the SSRI which makes sense. But i'm trying to make sense of it. First it took me hours and hours to get to sleep, then when I did I barely felt like I was actually asleep. It felt like I was just lying there as if I was in a very very light sleep, almost half awake. ANYWAY

This morning I woke up feeling pretty terrible again, I then took around a gram of L-Glutamine mixed with water, and a small coffee. And today I felt GREAT! I cannot explain why or how this worked but it lasted for most of the day and mildly persisted into the night. I'm trying to work out what the deal is but based on my positive effect I must either be low in GABA and/or Glutamate, as well as Dopamine as I responded very well to the coffee. I'm going to try this combo again tomorrow to see what happens but this was very promising. Otherwise it may have been a rebound affect from taking the tryptophan the night before. I can't really explain this reaction any ideas?


Edited by Jordan23, 23 August 2016 - 12:40 PM.


#48 Jordan23

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:22 PM

So, so far the low choline diet thing is proving to be the only thing thus far that has improved my mood. Just ate some pasta with chicken and cheese and noticed tension/discomfort in my neck again soon after. Of course I will absolutely cut out choline if it means feeling better but...
I wonder though how goddamn long will I have to maintain this? I wonder how the smallest amount of choline can have such a negative effect? It doesn't normally, I ussually eat tons of tuna salmon, and red meat. I mean I haven't taken fish oil in months now.



#49 jack black

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 01:25 AM

So, so far the low choline diet thing is proving to be the only thing thus far that has improved my mood. Just ate some pasta with chicken and cheese and noticed tension/discomfort in my neck again soon after. Of course I will absolutely cut out choline if it means feeling better but...
I wonder though how goddamn long will I have to maintain this? I wonder how the smallest amount of choline can have such a negative effect? It doesn't normally, I ussually eat tons of tuna salmon, and red meat. I mean I haven't taken fish oil in months now.

 

there was a post on this forum a while ago suggesting that acure hyperACh event can be triggered by psychological or metabolic stress. 

 

BTW, i found more info on who is more sensiting to ACh, and indirectly to choline (besides BPD):

 

 

Patients with affective disorders appear to be more sensitive than normal subjects to the effects of cholinomimetics, and an inherent muscarinic receptor hypersensitivity has been proposed to underlie this hyper-reactivity. With respect to the affect-inducing and behavioral inhibitory effects of cholinomimetics, Janowsky et al. (45, 52, 54) noted that those patients with depression, mania, or schizoaffective disorders, as compared to schizophrenics without a significant mood component to their illness, became significantly sadder and more depressed after receiving physostigmine.

Oppenheimer et al. (84) likewise observed that a significant percentage of euthymic bipolar patients receiving lithium developed a depressed mood after receiving physostigmine, whereas normal controls who received physostigmine alone did not become depressed. Furthermore, Janowsky et al. (45, 49, 50, 52) found that rater-evaluated behavioral inhibition and self-rated anxiety, depression, hostility, confusion, and elation subscales of the POMS showed significantly greater increases in affect disorder patients than in other psychiatric patient groups or normals after physostigmine infusion. That physostigmine may differentiate behaviorally patients with affective disorder diagnoses from others has received further support from the work of Edelstein et al. (27). These investigators used physostigmine to differentiate schizophrenic patients who were responsive to lithium carbonate therapy from those who were not. They found that patients who responded to physostigmine with a clearing of psychotic symptoms were significantly more likely to respond to a trial of lithium, presumably because they represented an affective disorder variant. Similarly, Casey (9) noted that those tardive dyskinesia patients with a strong history of affective disorder selectively showed increased affective symptoms while receiving the presumed acetylcholine precursor deanol. Conversely, Silva et al (unpublished data) noted anergia, but no depressed mood after physostigmine infusion in a group of carefully screened normals.

Steinberg et al (113) noted that increases in negative affect after physostigmine administration occurred selectively in those personality disordered patients with pre-existing affectively unstable personalities, as compared with those who were affectively stable or predominantly had impulsive traits. In contrast, those affectively unstable patients who reacted to physostigmine with negative affect did not show mood changes following noradrenergic, serotonergic, and placebo challenges. In a somewhat similar way, Fritze et al. (30) and Fritze (31) noted that in 11 healthy male volunteers, behavioral and cardiovascular sensitivity to physostigmine correlated with irritability and emotional lability, and with habitual passive stress coping strategies. A rise in plasma cortisol correlated with "motor retardation," and an epinephrine rise correlated with active coping strategies. These authors have proposed that cholinergic supersensivity may be predominately related to stress sensitivity and coping profiles, rather than to specific affective disorder diagnoses as such.

Nevertheless, non-affective disorder subjects and normals receiving physostigmine sometimes do develop depression and other negative affects after receiving cholinomimetic drugs, and the differences between affective disorder patients and controls are not profound. Furthermore, the observation by Nurnberger (80) that a differential behavioral sensitivity was not seen in a group of euthymic affective disorder patients is suggestive of the possibility that increased behavioral sensitivity to cholinomimetics is a state, rather than a trait phenomenon.

http://www.acnp.org/...1000095/CH.html


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#50 iseethelight

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 01:12 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12221201

Fish oil increases acetylcholine as you suspected. Usually people who suffer from high acetylcholine also suffer from high serotonin, I'm one of those people. so avoid both choline and tryptophan is likely a good idea as well.

The following supplements are known to increase acetylcholine  besides choline precursors, fish oil, phosphatidylserine,  and other phospholipids. I do not tolerate fish foil, cold hands, depression and the whole 9.



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#51 dopaminerush

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:11 PM

I suppose i have same problem now. im lifting so im eating 100-150 gram animal protein which are shitloads of choline source. 

 

 

 

Loratadine,desloratadine,clopheniramine melate,bupropion  lifting my mood  and preventing me getting angry from stupit things, making me careless. In past when i was not taking fish oil bupropion was not working this way.

 

So this topic helped me consider wtf is going on.  Thanks guys.   im gonna get rid of this shit or go very low dose.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: depression, anxiety, acetylcholine, choline, fish oil

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