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BCAA = tryptophan feeling?

bcaa serotonin dopamine

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#1 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 01:17 PM


I bought BCAA (500mg leucine, 250mg isoleucine, 250mg valine) tablets because they're touted as being serotonin-lowering.

The first tablet I took made me feel like I had drank too much caffeine, namely "overly excited." The second tablet I took made me feel extremely fatigued, irritable, etc., (though more shortlived than) as tryptophan or 5htp always makes me feel when I take them.

 

Then just now I've read that leucine is the culprit and valine is the one to take to lower serotonin without negatively impacting dopamine levels.

 

Which is it? Is it valine alone, or isoleucine?


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#2 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 01:00 AM

I mean, which is it that is neutral for tyrosine (dopamine) but depletes tryptophan (serotonin)?



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#3 dankis

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 02:33 PM

Hello,

Mate just little bit more of research. Tyrosine,tryptophan and BCAA are transported across blood brain barrier by one protein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD98 , so by supplementing BCAA alone you also deplete dopamine.

In order to benefit from anti-serotonin effects of BCAA just add some tyrosine to the mix and you should be okay(baseline or higher dopamine).

 

http://suppversity.b...ng-effects.html


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#4 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 04:37 PM

Hello,

Mate just little bit more of research. Tyrosine,tryptophan and BCAA are transported across blood brain barrier by one protein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD98 , so by supplementing BCAA alone you also deplete dopamine.

In order to benefit from anti-serotonin effects of BCAA just add some tyrosine to the mix and you should be okay(baseline or higher dopamine).

 

http://suppversity.b...ng-effects.html

So why all this talk about BCAAs reducing serotonin when they likewise reduce dopamine? Seems to me that it makes them completely useless for reducing serotonin. I might as well use ginger since small parts of its constituents cross the BBB and block serotonin receptors.

 

I don't have tyrosine but I do have D/L-phenylalanine, which also is a part of the synthesis of dopamine, and it does feel stimulating when I'm fatigued. I'm already using that.


Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 15 July 2016 - 04:39 PM.

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#5 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 03:48 PM

Today I've tried again. Prior to bed I took 1 BCAA capsule (500mg leucine, 250mg isoleucine, 250mg valine) and upon waking I took D/L-phenylalanine (500mg) with 1/4 a BCAA pill afterward. First I felt stimulated with strong emotions and the "water stuck in throat feeling" that caffeine can give. I listened to music and it sounded amazing like it did many years back before I began to have the issues with emotions. Now, 3 or so hours after I felt the awesome stimulation from the increased dopamine, I am terribly lethargic and irritable and so on, all the things that tryptophan does to me.

What could this mean? That the BCAA effect has worn off? That I actually lack serotonin as opposed to having too much?

This is very confusing


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#6 iseethelight

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 12:45 AM

Today I've tried again. Prior to bed I took 1 BCAA capsule (500mg leucine, 250mg isoleucine, 250mg valine) and upon waking I took D/L-phenylalanine (500mg) with 1/4 a BCAA pill afterward. First I felt stimulated with strong emotions and the "water stuck in throat feeling" that caffeine can give. I listened to music and it sounded amazing like it did many years back before I began to have the issues with emotions. Now, 3 or so hours after I felt the awesome stimulation from the increased dopamine, I am terribly lethargic and irritable and so on, all the things that tryptophan does to me.

What could this mean? That the BCAA effect has worn off? That I actually lack serotonin as opposed to having too much?

This is very confusing

 

 

When I take bcca, my limbs (legs and arms become weak) like when I drink caffeinated drinks. I find that taking it with some choline helps alleviate the side effects. The only reason I still take bcaa is because it helps my verbal fluency to a great extent. I do indeed have an excess of serotonin and dopamine which have caused me great suffering in the form of anxiety, lethargy and depression.



#7 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 02:02 AM

When I take bcca, my limbs (legs and arms become weak) like when I drink caffeinated drinks. I find that taking it with some choline helps alleviate the side effects. The only reason I still take bcaa is because it helps my verbal fluency to a great extent. I do indeed have an excess of serotonin and dopamine which have caused me great suffering in the form of anxiety, lethargy and depression.

 

Dopamine mediated fatigue, is that possible? Have you tried tyrosine or l-phenylalanine on its own (or D/L-phenylalanine)?



#8 iseethelight

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:16 PM

 

When I take bcca, my limbs (legs and arms become weak) like when I drink caffeinated drinks. I find that taking it with some choline helps alleviate the side effects. The only reason I still take bcaa is because it helps my verbal fluency to a great extent. I do indeed have an excess of serotonin and dopamine which have caused me great suffering in the form of anxiety, lethargy and depression.

 

Dopamine mediated fatigue, is that possible? Have you tried tyrosine or l-phenylalanine on its own (or D/L-phenylalanine)?

 

No. Tyrosine makes me depressed and anxious. L-tryptophan too. I think I just make too much neurotransmitters. Choline helps at first but then it turns into betaine which overmethylates me and create neurotransmitter excess. So that's why I feel good at first on choline but later in the day, I feel like shit. 

I actually had to stop the bcaa. Made me feel like crap today. Choline didn't help.



#9 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:23 PM

No. Tyrosine makes me depressed and anxious. L-tryptophan too. I think I just make too much neurotransmitters. Choline helps at first but then it turns into betaine which overmethylates me and create neurotransmitter excess. So that's why I feel good at first on choline but later in the day, I feel like shit. 

 

 

 

 

I actually had to stop the bcaa. Made me feel like crap today. Choline didn't help.

 

Even if you have too many neurotransmitters, what you describe is bizarre.

As to overmethylation, have you tried megadosing B vitamins since they take some of the methylation away from other things in the blood?


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#10 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:58 PM

I've just had an interesting experience. I am usually long-haired with uncut, dirty hair even when my hormone levels are higher. Short hair appears to me as being feminine, while long, unkept hair (in bearded men) shows the mental development of that man (yes, it looks autistic, that's the point) to me.

Anyway, after having taken BCAAs prior to bed for a couple of days I started having a desire to cut my hair short. My libido was also improved and I felt "bossy" but that's sort of leveled off (3rd day) so this can more or less rule out an increase in androgens. I now also feel like doing things I wouldn't do before because they're too risky. This suggests obviously that I have an increased dopamine to serotonin ratio. 

Since gay men almost always have short hair, in fact they have the shortest of hair compared to straight guys, and homosexuals are said to maybe be deficient in serotonin, and another guy said he got a "feeling of homosexuality" from taking BCAAs, I thought this was very interesting.

Yes, it sounds comical because I haven't formulated myself well but I think I'm on to something here, namely that BCAAs can induce some of the characteristics of homosexuality in men via possibly modulating neurotransmitter levels in favor of lower serotonin.


Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 26 July 2016 - 10:01 PM.

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#11 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 03:52 PM

examine.com notes no change in catecholamine levels following administration of 7g of bcaa complex. What the hell, how does that make any sense? The sourced study doesn't even seem to indicate that it is true, to me.

 

 

 

Similar to the other catecholamines (adrenaline and noradrenaline), serum dopamine does not appear to be altered with supplemental BCAAs.

 


 

http://examine.com/s...in Amino Acids/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22050133


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#12 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 06:16 PM

Just in case anyone might be interested in this, I've for the first time ingested 15 grams of a BCAA complex (7.5g leucine, 3.75g valine, 3.75g isoleucine). I've also taken 3g arginine to counteract ammonia production.

How do I feel? Slightly hyper or hypoglycemic caused by the BCAA. Slightly fatigued and weak. A little bit "down" but not depressed at all. 

At first when dosing the fatigue and irritability, "inner tension" is really bad, but after reaching around 5g no more supplementation seems to worsen it and it may very poorly if at all improve.

How about physical strength? I don't feel a difference or it's difficult to tell.


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#13 kurdishfella

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Posted 04 February 2022 - 11:29 PM

I wouldn't take any more than the recommended dose as all nutrients compete with each other for absorption and then also into the BBB. And yes, BCCA's have effects on the brain, majority of nutrients affect everywhere. Your nerves, blood vessels etc contain small amounts of muscle which can be used to move hand devoid of the need of BCCA's to exist.


Edited by kurdishfella, 04 February 2022 - 11:29 PM.






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