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Haven't slept in a week - progressive insomnia w/ dysautonomia

insomnia dysautonomia

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#1 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 09:47 PM


literally not since last Wednesday, July 6. Here's my backstory.

I've had Lyme disease since 2012, but was just diagnosed this year. When I first got sick, I went through a period of brutal insomnia that was only treatable with high dose melatonin (around 70 mg). I quickly tapered down to 30 mg and added 7.5 mg zopiclone. For several years this allowed me to sleep somewhat normally.

In June 2015 the Lyme disease flared so badly I became incapacitated, had to go off work, etc. Sleep became poor once again, and melatonin stopped working. Once I found out Lyme was likely what I had, I started treating accordingly (herbs, supps, etc.) and quickly made a partial recovery, including getting back to sleep using melatonin and zopiclone.

Late last year I started tapering both melatonin and zopiclone, getting down to 16 mg melatonin and 3.75 mg zopiclone. I held at this into March 2016, when I tried NSI-189. This drug, taken only once at 5 mg, seemed to mess up my autonomic nervous system, causing labored breathing and intense malaise and cognitive dysfunction, also high BP when laying down (around 140/80) with an irregular heartbeat, according to my machine. These symptoms would come back anytime I took certain things that affect brain function, like caffeine or (for some reason) calcium. I avoided things that affected me and got somewhat back to normal into April, and started doing some light workouts for the first time in about a year. I was feeling better.

In February I saw a "Lyme literate" doctor who diagnosed me and placed me on antibiotics. While on them, I felt improved physical energy but no improvement to cognitive issues.

On May 3 I tried a cardio workout, and this seems to have been the real trigger, the final straw. After around 15 minutes I felt my heart struggling, like I was going to drop dead, so I stopped. That night my BP was elevated w/ irregular beat. My head was out of it. Completely exhausted and depressed, couldn't think straight. Ever since then I've been developing more and more symptoms of dysautonomia: labored breathing, dry mouth and eyes, constipation, frequent urination, orthostatic hypotension (BP drops 30-40 points upon standing and pulse rate rises 30 points to compensate).

My Lyme Dr. thinks these most recent symptoms are all caused by Lyme. He had me take the best autoimmune antibody test on the market, Cyrex #5, which only showed thyroid antibodies ie Hashimoto's (though my thyroid still makes adequate hormones). So he's getting me to see a cardiologist re: my orthostatic hypotension. In the meanwhile I had to stop antibiotics due to elevated liver enzymes, which remain elevated two months later.

Since May the dysautonomia has come and gone, sometimes better, sometimes worse. But my sleep has gotten progressively worse. I went from sleeping 6 hours per night to around 4. I increased my zopiclone back up to a full pill. I had to stop melatonin because it seemed to make all my symptoms worse--just since May though. Then a few weeks ago I began sleeping even less--I don't know how long I was sleeping because I avoid checking the time, but maybe 2-3 hours. Then as of a week ago, I could no longer fall asleep. As soon as I start to fall asleep, I get spasms in my arms and legs, odd sensations throughout my body, and my BP shoots up to around 140/80. Each time I start to drift off, this happens. Zopiclone no longer works, either. It in fact seems to make things worse. The best I do is getting very close to actual sleep, where I start dreaming while awake. I know that if this goes on long enough, people start dreaming ie hallucinating all the time and eventually die.

Seeing my Lyme Dr next week, and I just emailed the sleep specialist/neuropsych I've been seeing since early 2013. Not sure what either of them are going to be able to do at this point.

Some thoughts I've had lately:

- Lyme is the root cause of most of my issues (along with stress... maybe stress is the root cause of Lyme, preventing me from healing).

 

- NSI-189 jarred something loose in my brain, set off some kind of cascade

- The May 3 cardio workout jarred something loose, set off some autoimmune process. I looked up things like autoimmune autonomic ganglionopathy.

- The dysautonomia and insomnia are definitely related. When you google "dysautonomia and insomnia", you get fatal familial insomnia and its non-genetic variant, sporadic fatal insomnia, which is marked by dysautonomia in its early stages. This is a one in a million disease, but I can't help think of crazy stuff after a week without sleep. (This is interesting, a woman who had a history of Lyme and wound up with sporadic fatal insomnia, a prion disease:
http://archneur.jama...rticleid=795857



That's about all I can think of. Any input is appreciated.


Edited by Omega 3 Snake Oil, 13 July 2016 - 10:28 PM.


#2 stillwater

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 02:19 AM

In my late twenties I went through something that caused me to go a very long stretch without sleep and things started to get really ugly fast around the 9th day mark.   Do what it takes to get some sleep. Towards the end of my duration without sleep I literally began to go crazy and I imagine close to death. That episode still haunts me to this day. It can setup life long fears of not being able to sleep and ptsd like symptoms.

 

If I ever have to face that again I would throw some heavy duty things at it to break it before too many nights passed.  Such as Remeron, Xyrem (GHB), Trazadone, Amitripiyline, Cyproheptadine, Hydroxyzine, Prazosin.  maybe an anti-psychotic l would steer clear of benzos.   

 

Get some sleep first then focus on solving the root problem. Going too long without can cause some long lasting psycho and physiological damages.

 

 


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#3 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:37 AM

Zopiclone seems to make things worse, as does melatonin... I dunno. I'm leaning more towards some kind of autoimmune encephalitis, but I need to get my Dr. to get on that. I need to be in a hospital but this is Canada so...



#4 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 10:42 PM

doctor just scripped me quetiapine. I'm worried it won't help...



#5 StevesPetRat

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 12:12 AM

I had a lot of similar dysautonomic symptoms, though I don't think I have Lyme. Megadose thiamine (specifically in the allithiamine form, have only found it on amazon. But if you want to get started sooner, B1 is easy to find even at the grocery store) was by far the top thing to reverse these symptoms. It seemed to increase my need for magnesium when I started it.

It seems like it should be quite safe for basically anyone to try.

edit: as for sleep, that's a hard one. Anything strong enough to knock you out at this point will probably make you feel like you're going to die (at least that was my experience after literally weeks on no more than 2 hours of sleep a night). I totally agree with stillwater. I know it's very, very easy to give in to your worst fears right now, but try to have faith that the Rx drug you got will work.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 16 July 2016 - 12:18 AM.

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#6 gamesguru

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 01:51 AM

http://www.antinmdaf...r-encephalitis/



#7 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 04:34 PM

got these test results back...

epinephrine  40 (range <100)
norepinephrine 78 (range <500)
dopamine 2698 (range <2500)

any thoughts?



#8 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 04:36 PM

got these test results back...

epinephrine  40 (range <100)
norepinephrine 78 (range <500)
dopamine 2698 (range <2500)

any thoughts?

Take BCAAs like I did



#9 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 08:36 PM

 

got these test results back...

epinephrine  40 (range <100)
norepinephrine 78 (range <500)
dopamine 2698 (range <2500)

any thoughts?

Take BCAAs like I did

 

I can't, it makes my dysautonomia act up



#10 StevesPetRat

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:08 PM

got these test results back...

epinephrine  40 (range <100)
norepinephrine 78 (range <500)
dopamine 2698 (range <2500)

any thoughts?


You have low COMT activity. Aside from the genetic polymorphisms, I think sleep deprivation has an effect on these, but... go figure... I looked up those studies years back when I couldn't sleep for days on end, and I don't remember what I found out during that time period.



#11 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 03:45 AM

Now twelve days without sleep. I lay in bed at night with my eyes closed and eventually start to dream while still awake. Sporadic fatal insomnia, what are the odds...


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#12 telight

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 04:16 AM

Now twelve days without sleep. I lay in bed at night with my eyes closed and eventually start to dream while still awake. Sporadic fatal insomnia, what are the odds...

 

If you are actually telling the truth, at twelve days without sleep its time for you to try high dose phenibut. Start with 3g it should knock you out, its action on GABAB receptors will stop any muscular spasms you may have right at the spinal cord (assuming the cause is found in the brain, and not peripherally in the muscles themselves). Phenibut especially high dose phenibut is addictive and you will most likely have a withdrawl. But 12 days without sleep is probably worse then coming off 1 dose of phenibut.

 

Also, you can try to get higher doses of baclofen and see if that works.



#13 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 03:27 PM

Now twelve days without sleep. I lay in bed at night with my eyes closed and eventually start to dream while still awake. Sporadic fatal insomnia, what are the odds...

If that's seriously true, why the heck not go to an emergency room or call an ambulance and let them handle you? They could easily put you into a coma or whatever would be necessary, I think. You'd either die from a heart attack or you'll soon suffer psychosis.

 


Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 20 July 2016 - 03:29 PM.

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#14 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 03:48 AM

 

Now twelve days without sleep. I lay in bed at night with my eyes closed and eventually start to dream while still awake. Sporadic fatal insomnia, what are the odds...

If that's seriously true, why the heck not go to an emergency room or call an ambulance and let them handle you? They could easily put you into a coma or whatever would be necessary, I think. You'd either die from a heart attack or you'll soon suffer psychosis.

 

 

In Canada, ER rooms don't do shit unless you have obvious trauma. Saying you haven't slept in two weeks will get you a pamphlet on depression and a referral to see a psychiatrist in three to five months.


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#15 gamesguru

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:36 AM

How about an minute clinic or your family doctor? Perhaps they could shed some light on the situation and promptly refer you to higher assistance.

Otherwise if you're too fatigued to find the minute clinic, the phenibut suggestion is good. Perhaps instead, just order some chloral hydrate. Just real powerful sedatives, probably what doctors would presribe anyways. I would get the next day early A.M. shipping to increase chances of survival.

Edited by gamesguru, 21 July 2016 - 09:40 AM.


#16 Galaxyshock

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:44 AM

Now twelve days without sleep. I lay in bed at night with my eyes closed and eventually start to dream while still awake. Sporadic fatal insomnia, what are the odds...

 

It's time to bring out the big guns

 

GHB

Phenibut

Barbiturates

Diphenhydramine

Propofol

Antipsychotics

 

Anything to knock you out

Otherwise sooner or later shit will hit the fan


Edited by Galaxyshock, 22 July 2016 - 11:47 AM.


#17 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:16 PM

Zopiclone no longer works, in fact it seems to make things worse. Gonna get lorazepem but I'm expecting the same. I have phenibut but it doesn't help. Not sure where I could get GHB...
Also tried seroquel, an anti psychotic. Made the dysautonomia worse..

#18 telight

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:22 PM

Zopiclone no longer works, in fact it seems to make things worse. Gonna get lorazepem but I'm expecting the same. I have phenibut but it doesn't help. Not sure where I could get GHB...
Also tried seroquel, an anti psychotic. Made the dysautonomia worse..

 

How high of a dosage did you go with on the phenibut?



#19 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 12:37 AM

 

Zopiclone no longer works, in fact it seems to make things worse. Gonna get lorazepem but I'm expecting the same. I have phenibut but it doesn't help. Not sure where I could get GHB...
Also tried seroquel, an anti psychotic. Made the dysautonomia worse..

 

How high of a dosage did you go with on the phenibut?

 

 

1200 mg. GABA stuff doesn't get me to sleep. It does get me high, but not to sleep....



#20 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 12:42 AM

Seeing my neuropsych this week, thinking of asking for agomelatine. Thoughts?



#21 dwaaam

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:08 AM

Still have not had any sleep? If not, than you are up to 18 days without sleeping! The most I have been awake is about 72 hours, and I did not feel any good at the end of these periods. I can not fathom how awful it must be not being able to sleep for this length of time. :sad:

 

Regarding Agomelatine, it could work as you had some success with melatonin before. Agomelatine is not primarily used for insomina though, but is approved for the use as an antidepressant. There are two other melatonin receptor agonist drugs on the market: Ramelteon, but its efficacy is questioned: "It does not appear to speed the onset of sleep or the amount of sleep a person gets."  and Tasimelteon but it seems to only been tested on blind people.

By the way have you tried 5-htp? It is a amino acid that is a precursor to serotonin, so it is not a heavy duty drug, but some people get help with their sleep using it. It could at least be worth to try.

Good luck with sleeping! :)



#22 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:23 AM

If you still haven't slept, how are you able to write so coherently? Just a tiny amount of sleep deprivation for me results in writing word salads. Multiple days and my train of thought gets lost after a few words, and I don't want to imagine what psychotic things I'll be doing after 2-3 days.


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#23 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:41 PM

I get at least 9 hours per night of "shut eye", meaning I'm very close to sleep, in deep relaxation. This seems to be enough to stave off madness, at least for the time being. But every day I'm a little worse off. Physically, I'm a wreck: blurred vision, poor depth perception, can't drive or walk very far.



#24 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 07:06 PM

had a sleep study last night, won't know the results for five weeks. Doesn't matter, I already know I spent the night in and out of stage 1 sleep.

The worse this gets, the more I'm thinking about prion disease. The way my insomnia has gradually gotten worse over the past few months, coinciding with dysautonomia. The fact that all sleep meds seem to make things worse. The fact I've started dreaming while still awake. That taking anything with any effect on brain function seems to throw my dysautonomia into disarray.

I used to drink out of a copper drinking vessel, til I noticed the lemon juice I added had corroded the copper, causing me to ingest some of it. This was in 2014, before my symptoms got bad. I read somewhere copper toxicity is linked to prion disease...

 

http://ajcn.nutritio.../88/3/855S.full


Edited by Omega 3 Snake Oil, 31 July 2016 - 07:18 PM.


#25 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 07:40 PM

No offense to you but I've learned a lesson from browsing this site, and that is that most times someone complains of physical and mental problems it's because they've been abusing hard drugs like amphetamines, psychoactive mushrooms, prescription drugs, designer drugs, and so on, and they've just "forgotten" to let us know about that little but important detail. 

 

Can you exclude the use of stimulants or the likes?


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#26 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 08:20 PM

No offense to you but I've learned a lesson from browsing this site, and that is that most times someone complains of physical and mental problems it's because they've been abusing hard drugs like amphetamines, psychoactive mushrooms, prescription drugs, designer drugs, and so on, and they've just "forgotten" to let us know about that little but important detail. 

 

Can you exclude the use of stimulants or the likes?

 

I've never done street drugs other than cabbabis. Not even once. Never amphetamines, coke, opiates, or hallucinogens.

EDIT and I've been seeing a sleep specialist for over three years, a neuropsych, and he's never diagnosed me with any mental illness, although when I saw him last week he suggested this issue is "all in my head"


Edited by Omega 3 Snake Oil, 31 July 2016 - 08:21 PM.


#27 fiftyyy

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:29 AM

Get yourself some dank indica, it sure to get the job done. Overeating also may shut you down


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#28 Sleepdealer

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 07:39 AM

While you are waiting for that sleep study, have you considered making a blood analysis? If you could take a blood test at a clinic you could look for abnormalities in the HPA-axis and infectory/inflammatory markers. Just to gather evidence and rule things out.



#29 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:45 PM

I've been tested for everything. ACTH is normal. Other than Lyme, liver enzymes, and high dopamine with low norepinephrine, I think my numbers are pretty normal.

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#30 Sleepdealer

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 09:54 PM

Oh yeah. Sorry, I read the thread once, then went back later and had forgotten what I read earlier.







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