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Which supplements might help to counteract SFA's LDL-raising action?

bile cholesterol ldl

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#1 brosci

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 10:50 PM


I'm thinking about adding a little more coconut / MCT / cacao into my low-carb diet (currently, I lean much more heavily toward MUFA, and get a ton of omega-6 in my diet from nuts/seeds/avocado/olive oil.)  I'm slightly concerned that this might serve to increase LDL particles via lower particle clearance (fewer LDL receptors?) and higher cholesterol synthesis + cholesterol absorption.

 

I've read that Pantethine and Tocotrienols can help to lower HMG-CoA with action somewhat similar to a statin, although I wouldn't mind trying to approach this from other angles.  Maybe Artichoke Extract could help to stimulate bile, or something like Thorne's Liver Detox Stack (S.A.T. or T.A.P.S.) ?  I'm also looking at Grape Seed Extract or Aged Garlic Extract.

 

Are there any supplements I can take to help mitigate the potential for cardiovascular harm with increased SFA / MCT / Coconut / Cocoa Butter intake?


Edited by brosci, 14 July 2016 - 10:52 PM.


#2 Dolph

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 11:16 AM

Why do you want to increase your SFA consumption in the first place??? Just don't do it.



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#3 pamojja

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 12:06 PM

 

I'm slightly concerned that this might serve to increase LDL particles via lower particle clearance (fewer LDL receptors?) and higher cholesterol synthesis + cholesterol absorption.

 

What is your present particle number or APO-B? Only some genetically susceptible would have to worry about that. The way to know is to test before and after a dietary intervention.



#4 brosci

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:45 PM

 

 

I'm slightly concerned that this might serve to increase LDL particles via lower particle clearance (fewer LDL receptors?) and higher cholesterol synthesis + cholesterol absorption.

 

What is your present particle number or APO-B? Only some genetically susceptible would have to worry about that. The way to know is to test before and after a dietary intervention.

 

The last I checked, APO-B was at 72 with APO-A1 at 192, which comes out to a 0.375 ratio.  HDL-C measured 77 mg/dL and LDL-C was 72 mg/dL with a triglycerides to HDL ratio of 0.84.  This was while eating a high-fat ketogenic diet at energy balance (actually,  a little above energy balance, as I've gained some lean mass / weight) at around 30-40 grams of SFA per day and 30-40g of PUFA per day.  I'll ideally not be increasing my SFA consumption by too much -- maybe 1 tablespoon.  I'm viewing this as a trade of some of the longer SFA chains / Omega-6 fatty acids for C8 which isn't generally shown to increase cholesterol in animals.  I feel best in ketosis, where this might allow me to increase my carbohydrate consumption a bit, decrease total fat intake, and still remain in that comfortable 0.5-3.0 mmol/L BHB range.  I'm still not completely confident it will be ideal for me in terms of lipids.

 

I'll take your advice and retest lipids after a month or so -- I wonder if I should go for 1TBS/d (15g SFA) or 2TBS (+30g SFA) to see how I fare.

 

https://www.karger.c...icle/Pdf/381654

Attached File  Screen Shot 2016-07-16 at 8.45.22 AM.png   153.71KB   0 downloads

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4195930/

Attached File  Screen Shot 2016-07-16 at 9.31.45 AM.png   464.15KB   0 downloads


Edited by brosci, 16 July 2016 - 04:38 PM.


#5 sativa

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 06:13 PM

How long have you been following this diet? Just curious.

Just a few things that are good to be aware of -

PUFA's such as Omega 6 also 'act as' or 'contribute to' hibernatory signalling which can cause the body to slow its metabolism and gain weight as well as other physiological changes (mainly by affecting thyroid function & hormones).

Coconut oil acts to speed up metabolism and counters this aspect of PUFA's.

Just something to consider!

Also, PUFA's such as omega 6 can contribute to inflammation and other issues (by free radical formation IIRC) due to their unstable structure.

I guess reducing carb intake might go hand in hand with slowing your metabolic rate as a slower metabolism would reduce your need for quick energy aka glucose.

I realised, after a few months of VLC and high fact, that my thyroid function and balance was detrimentally affected by reduced glucose availability. I'm sure that this was implicated in my adrenal/HPA axis issues.

Re nuts and seed, it would be best/ideal to properly prepare them to reduce anti nutrient levels such as phytic acid and digestive enzyme inhibitors.

Edited by sativa, 16 July 2016 - 06:18 PM.

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#6 brosci

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:32 PM

How long have you been following this diet? Just curious.

Just a few things that are good to be aware of -

PUFA's such as Omega 6 also 'act as' or 'contribute to' hibernatory signalling which can cause the body to slow its metabolism and gain weight as well as other physiological changes (mainly by affecting thyroid function & hormones).

Coconut oil acts to speed up metabolism and counters this aspect of PUFA's.

Just something to consider!

Also, PUFA's such as omega 6 can contribute to inflammation and other issues (by free radical formation IIRC) due to their unstable structure.

I guess reducing carb intake might go hand in hand with slowing your metabolic rate as a slower metabolism would reduce your need for quick energy aka glucose.

I realised, after a few months of VLC and high fact, that my thyroid function and balance was detrimentally affected by reduced glucose availability. I'm sure that this was implicated in my adrenal/HPA axis issues.

Re nuts and seed, it would be best/ideal to properly prepare them to reduce anti nutrient levels such as phytic acid and digestive enzyme inhibitors.

I've been eating a low carb-ish diet since maybe 2010 or so.  I tend to be more concerned about PUFAs ability to oxidize as a sort of pro-carcinogen or promoter of AGEs than something to promote a slower metabolism / fat gain.  Throughout my life, I've only really hovered between being very lean and being slightly ripped.  Since going low carb, my body fat has naturally come down as low as 7-8% or so without any signs of hypothyroidism approaching bodybuilder leanness (albeit, without the guns... "ottermode", perhaps) -- if anything, I might run a little on the hyperthyroid side as I usually have very warm hands and stay fairly lean and energetic -- it takes some real conscious and consistent over-eating to pull off weight gain for me.  I very easily and naturally eat at energy balance or a bit below at a slight deficit.  (Although, my blood pressure and heart rate run low, which might be an indicator of calorie restriction -- my resting rate is around 42bpm and BP stays around 90/55.)

 

The last I checked on inflammation, hs-CRP measured <= 0.2 mg/L -- this was the lowest value the analytical sensitivity could measure on the test.  In general, I have very little inflammation and recover quite quickly from hard exercise -- it's very difficult for me to reach a state of DOMs.  I'm not overly concerned about inflammation.

 

Nuts / Seeds I do soak prior to eating them.  Although, my diet is so packed with minerals that I sometimes wonder if a lower bioavailability might be ideal (eg. I don't need as much manganese as I'm taking in.)  Eventually, I wouldn't mind getting some kind of micro nutrient panel.

 

I'm primarily concerned about MCT somehow messing up my otherwise fairly-ideal lipid panel.  I think it's going to provide a great source of energy and help to bring down PUFA a little bit, but I'll have to try it out.  If it does worsen lipids, it seems like this would be via lower Bile Acid clearance and lower LDL receptors.  Perhaps regular carbohydrate refeeds could help to increase LDL receptor density and increase thyroid hormones.

 

L-tyrosine looks interesting for providing a precursor for thyroid hormones, but reading online it sounds like it increases cholesterol.  Perhaps a soluble fiber supplement could be useful.


Edited by brosci, 16 July 2016 - 09:40 PM.






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