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Forsythia Suspensa Seed Extract

pde4 inhibitor pde4 nootropic forsythia

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#1 thedevinroy

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 06:42 PM


Anyone ever try this?

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0115937

 

 
Novel PDE4 Inhibitors Derived from Chinese Medicine Forsythia

 

Cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) is a crucial intracellular second messenger molecule that converts extracellular molecules to intracellular signal transduction pathways generating cell- and stimulus-specific effects. Importantly, specific phosphodiesterase (PDE) subtypes control the amplitude and duration of cAMP-induced physiological processes and are therefore a prominent pharmacological target currently used in a variety of fields. Here we tested the extracts from traditional Chinese medicine, Forsythia suspense seeds, which have been used for more than 2000 years to relieve respiratory symptoms. Using structural-functional analysis we found its major lignin, Forsynthin, acted as an immunosuppressant by inhibiting PDE4 in inflammatory and immune cell. Moreover, several novel, selective small molecule derivatives of Forsythin were tested in vitro and in murine models of viral and bacterial pneumonia, sepsis and cytokine-driven systemic inflammation. Thus, pharmacological targeting of PDE4 may be a promising strategy for immune-related disorders characterized by amplified host inflammatory response.

 

 



#2 thedevinroy

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 06:54 PM

For those of you who aren't aware, PDE4 is an enzyme that is generated via a negative feedback loop in the CREB cycle.  Inhibiting it can therefore increase LTP.  Autism, for instance, has an enormous correlation with enhanced PDE4 activity, and therefore, inhibiting PDE4 could provide some relief.  However, there are various different types of PDE4 enzymes, and their expression is quite diverse across the brain and other tissues.  Therefore, it would be really cool to know a description of subjective effects before one just dives into a supplement first hand.

 

The type of PDE4 enzyme that is mentioned above for negative CREB and autism is the PDE4B2 subtype.  This is not mentioned in the Forsythia essay, only PDE4D.  However, there still may be some subjective beneficial effects on cognition via the immune system route.

 

Sources:

PDE4's in Autism: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18090323

PDE4's in CREB negative feedback loop:  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12065634


Edited by devinthayer, 05 August 2016 - 07:05 PM.

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#3 thedevinroy

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 05:03 PM

Okay... No forsythia takers...

I got this app times out sooo much... Drives me nuts.

Anyway, what I had written was that basically the fruit, not the liquid extracts, have a better bang for the buck. The liquid extracts are seriously watered down (333mg dried herb per mL), which is $30 for 4 oz. It is diluted 3x that of the raw fruit and then the same price for 4oz as a pound of the dried fruit. You would need 1.362 L to equal a pound of dried herb. Basically, it is 11.5x the price to get the liquid extract per same constituents.

So I'll see if I can get 500g of the dried fruit, make some tea, an ethanol extract, a dried ethanol extract, a resin or crushed version... Maybe throw some in my coffee maker with some tea leaves. I'll try just eating them straight. I mean kind of new to making my own supplements... But one of the reviewers on Amazon made a tea from it. I guess I'll start there.

Edited by devinthayer, 06 August 2016 - 05:51 PM.


#4 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 01:57 PM

b7036d722bf91c69e3be56c17ff12e80.jpg

Had a spicy smell only when crushed and an herbally, woody taste and smell as a tea. It is actually a light anxiolytic and potent anti-inflammatory from what I can tell. Notice less back pain and a bit of numbness. It's also slightly easier to breathe, not that I have any trouble, but the anti-inflammatory effects due present themselves in the lungs and sinuses. As far as an effect on ADHD-PI, it really only has a calming effect, so you would still have to stack it with caffeine. Like Zembrin, another PDE4 inhibitor, it does reduce the side effects from caffeine making it kind of like a taurine or theanine in that regard - but lets through creativity and charm.

As for how to prepare it, You actually don't need to chop it up with a coffee grinder like in the picture underneath. You can use the whole pods twice. The reason why I did chop it up was to reduce volume. It's about a third of the size. With my tea making apparatus (strainer from target, comes with a cup and lid), it does leave some sediment when using the chopped pods. It's a hard tea to pallet (bitter) and stomach, and too much makes you not hungry and a little upset in the stomach, so I mixed it with some Sweet Tea Mio and only put in a couple tablespoons to make it more tolerable.

That's pretty much it!

I'm going to make some more tea right now. My neck is killing me, and the coffee I drank is a bit overwhelming since I started taking Strattera (atomoxetine) again.

Edited by devinthayer, 27 August 2016 - 02:07 PM.

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#5 Jo Vandevenne

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 06:26 PM

Hi Devin. Interesting study you referring to. You have to know that Forsythia has been used to cure pharyngitis and tonsillitis for centuries. It's really one of my favorites and it eases a sore throat in a matter of hours(8-24h). Known as Yin Chiao Chieh Tu Pien it is mostly combined with Lonicera and other herbs. 

Do not know anything about autism and forsythia but please let me know if you have any results. You probably have a better effect with a 5:1 dry extract of the herb. You can find these extract from sun ten and other Chinese herbal companies. 

 

Greetings, 

 

Jo

 



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#6 thedevinroy

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 11:45 PM

Hi Devin. Interesting study you referring to. You have to know that Forsythia has been used to cure pharyngitis and tonsillitis for centuries. It's really one of my favorites and it eases a sore throat in a matter of hours(8-24h). Known as Yin Chiao Chieh Tu Pien it is mostly combined with Lonicera and other herbs.
Do not know anything about autism and forsythia but please let me know if you have any results. You probably have a better effect with a 5:1 dry extract of the herb. You can find these extract from sun ten and other Chinese herbal companies.

Greetings,

Jo

Thanks Jo!

I have plenty of it for tea in the morning. Don't notice much in terms of sore throat since I don't have one. I did notice it was one of the ingredients in an over the counter cold remedy.

UPDATE: Notice zero tenderness in my back, even in spots that were always tender from soccer injuries as a child. The only thing that comes close to this as an anti-inflammatory is a high dose Ashwagandha+Curcumin combo which I have recommended to close friends and family for their back and joint discomfort. I now have another alternative. As for cognition, even after a week I still notice that mellowing out effect that really reduces side effects from caffeine - more so than theanine in my opinion. Interesting to see if others have that finding, too.

Edited by devinthayer, 02 September 2016 - 11:45 PM.






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