9 replies to this topic

[MarianVB]

Hi there,

 

I have functioned well until 29 years old. Then I suffered from PTSD and anxiety in response to an abusive relationship. I was prescribed drugs (benzo's, antipsychotic) and upon withdrawal suffered my first psychosis. After that my issues got worse and worse with more meds and withdrawals. Antipsychotics are known to make you more sensitive to psychosis, ironically. It's called supersensitivity psychosis or rebound psychosis. At the moment I use an antipsychotic (haldol) in relatively small dose (30mg/4 weeks). I suffer from unbearable anhedonia/flat affect/depression/lack of energy and cognitive problems/concentration loss because of haldol. Quitting the meds lifts these issues for a large part, but causes another problem: horrible withdrawals. Psychosis, terror, anger and mood swings. I feel much much worse than before getting hooked on meds. I had no family history of psychosis, no psychotic symptoms before meds and have no diagnosis of schizophrenia.

 

I hate my life like this, I have zero trust in psychiatrists and I am desperate to find out a more bearable solution than the one they have on offer (a lifelong as a haldol-zombie). I want to reverse some of the damage the antipsychotics did, reverse supersensitivity psychosis. I just can't figure out how. It's kind of a complicated issue, but I am willing to try a lot and spend a lot of time and money to find a solution. Even if it only helps me lower meds it would be helpful! I have found some ideas on alternatives on this forum for either trauma or psychosis, but not specifically on the reversal of supersensitivity psychosis.

 

Any ideas?

 

Some ideas in my solo-brainstorm sessions: 

 

1. Reverse dopamine supersensitivity. Downregulate and desensitize dopamine receptors in the striatum and mesolimbic system. How to achieve this? I thought about:

- Experimenting with some research peptides like cyclo-leu-gly or pro-leu-gly that are supposed to reverse dopamine supersensitivity... in rats. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6145116

- Following a high carbohydrate-low protein diet - http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1349715

- Using mucuna pruriens (l-dopa) - http://europepmc.org...ract/med/847296

Although it's also said that it doesn't help or even worsens the problem - http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6815701

- Switching to Abilify first. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21402722

 

2. Reverse cholinergic interneuron loss. Upregulate cholinergic system? How???

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7904833

 

3. Reverse Gaba downregulation. How???

 

4. Find alternative ways to decrease psychotic and anxiety symptoms. I was thinking of trying:

- neurofeedback (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22715481)

- diet (funnily i have read success stories both about high carb-low fat and low carb-high fat ketogenic diets

- trauma-therapy (somatic experiencing, EMDR, etc).

I am scared of herbal remedies, because they hit the same receptors, so might have the same problems as regular meds.

 

5. Experiment with stem cell treatments in China... which is probably totally unhelpful (because they haven't figured out how to use it for psychosis yet) and very expensive. But - desperate.

 

All other ideas on how to reverse supersensitivity/rebound psychosis are welcome.

 

Thanks.

[Dextroamphetamine]

Hmm well for decreasing psychotic symptoms there is CBD. It's an effective antipsychotic(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22832859) but it seems to have none of the side effects of traditional antipsychotics. In fact, it has a side effect profile similar to placebo. It doesn't directly block dopamine but works through a complex system involving reducing activation of CB1 receptors and agonizing the 5-ht1a receptor. CBD also seems to have some anti-anxiety and antidepressant effects in some studies as well. I see your from the netherlands so im guessing it probably isn't that difficult for you to get ahold of cannabis products(hopefully).

 

Since psychosis is caused generally by deficient activation of NMDA receptors, maybe supplements that potentiate activation of NMDARs would help. L-theanine comes to mind, not only because its an agonist of NMDARs but also because it in itself seems to be an effective sedative and anxiolytic. It also shows some promise in schizophrenia(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21208586) Also sarcosine might be worth a try.

 

Oh you also might wanna look into CB2 agonists, they regulate and reduce midbrain dopamine release, and psychosis patients tend to have severely downregulated CB2 receptors(http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4246322/). CB2 knockout mice also display very psychotic behaviours as well(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21430651). Beta-caryophyllene is probably the easiest to get.

 

That's just off the top of my head, I can't really help you with much else but since you stated you were anxious, why not take Phenibut or another short term benzo-esque sedative until you can wean yourself of the antipsychotic and get back on your feet? Just a thought.

 

[Water Buffalo]

I have personal experience with psychosis. To reduce the symptoms, you may want to try 60 mg/kg of D-serine. It was used with some success with people at high-risk of developing schizophrenia. In a study assessing 60 mg/kg it reduced the negative symptoms of the participants by 35-37%. The negative symptoms of Schizophrenia include flat affect and the positive symptoms include psychosis. D-serine activates the glycine site of the NMDAR with a greater effect than glycine. It consistently reduces both positive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Sarcosine doesn't significantly affect the positive symptoms used at the typical 2g dosage. This will probably have the greatest effect of everything that I suggest.

 

BDNF can upregulate the alpha7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. You can increase the amount of BDNF that you produce by exercising. Participants in one study saw an average of a 17% increase in BDNF during the first 2 weeks of the study. There are other ways of increasing BDNF, but exercising has other benefits besides BDNF. A target that you can use for decreasing psychosis is increasing your overall cognition and decreasing anxiety. Exercise also has anti-depressive properties, in some cases, it can be as beneficial as an anti-depressive drug. You can start out at 30 min 3x a week.

 

Galantamine or GTS-21 have great anti-psychotic potential as well. GTS-21 will probably have a greater effect than Galantamine, but it is more expensive. I believe Heisenburger is still selling some GTS-21 in his thread if you're interested in that. Also, NSI-189 has the potential to help your flat affect as the molecular pathway and probable positive effect on the Hippocampus that NSI-189 has can be substantial if you stick to the 40 mg dosage that they used in the 28-day safety trial. I strongly suggest you start low if you decide to take NSI-189 because some people can experience anxiety with it, maybe 5 mg. Strangelove in the NSI-189 thread might be able to help you out with acquiring some. He's well trusted on this forum and his supply has been independently tested by the members of this forum.

 

To go along with exercise, eccentric exercises(think, pushing on the bench press), or any sort of weight training, can reduce the amount of Kynurenic Acid that your body produces. In Schizophrenics, the amount of Kynurenic Acid that they produce under stress is increased above the normal level. The prevailing theory that puts together the glutamate and dopamine theories of schizophrenia is Kynurenic Acid, as it affects both dopamine and NMDAR. Also, D-serine and other "cognitive enhancers" are known to antagonize Kynurenic acid.

 

As Dextroamphetamine mentioned, a GABA agonist like Phenibut can help you cope with the anxiety that follows with psychosis. Also, something mild like Ashwagandha, although it is an herb, might help. A study assessing the links between GABA and glutamate in schizophrenic patients came to the conclusion that GABA levels in the prefrontal cortex of schizophrenic patients tended to predict their functioning status (IQ).

Edited by Novas, 11 August 2016 - 01:53 AM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Exercise can actually induce psychosis. Be careful with it. In some people, exercise increase dopamine, in others it's the opposite. Exercise works paradoxically in different people.

[DomoTheHungry]

Has anyone tried the paopa? There are a lot of studies on it that are very promising for those with dopamine problems like schizophrenia but I haven't found people who has tried it even when there are a lot of people who need it.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Dopamine supersentivity is caused by reduced nmda function? At least it seems so. Area-1255 used to post about that but I can't find those old posts he made.

[AOLministrator]

Don't take those meds in the first place. Continuing to take antipsychotics is the most retarded thing you can do. Especially if its Haldol. Have fun with brain damage, idiot.

There is one simple solution: Face the withdrawal, live thought it, learn to live *with* it.

A few days or a week or two of shitting your pants, then accept how you are and work from there on. Enduring withdrawal builds character. Live with your mother or family, always have someone around, go for plenty of walks, don't be alone, etc, if you want to combat psychosis. Try to think straight, instead of fucking yourself up with drugs. Don't withdraw with your family, the first few days when the drug is really out of your system. Change environment afterwards.


If you really want a fucked up solution, do some 4F-MPH with GHB for a week or two with 8 hour pause per day. If it doesn't make you crazy by itself, nor super-addicted to those drugs, it will burn out whatever it is, that psychosis feeds on.


Don't do Phenibut, its a GABA-A drug. GHB and baclofen are GABA-B drugs, zero cross tolerance to benzos. Though obviously, they will cause very similar withdrawal symptoms on the long run.

Don't do BDNF drugs or any of that shit. Psychosis is not a matter of neurotransmitters, that's foolish nonsense. Schizophrenic psychosis is simply the end-result of a disturbed mind, accompanied by nonsensical beliefs and perceptions. ANY drug that will disturb your neurology further, will worsen psychosis. Including drugs, which are by effect calming you down from it for a short while (alcohol, benzos, baclofen, etc.).

A reminder: ANY theory that links neurotransmitters to schizophrenic psychosis is BULLSHIT. Remember that: BULLSHIT and nothing more than that.

But the 4F-MPH + GHB combo can work. Its like putting out a forest fire with napalm, while being drunk and laughing like a madman.

Edited by Aolministrator, 14 February 2017 - 04:45 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Don't take those meds in the first place. Continuing to take antipsychotics is the most retarded thing you can do. Especially if its Haldol. Have fun with brain damage, idiot.

There is one simple solution: Face the withdrawal, live thought it, learn to live *with* it.

A few days or a week or two of shitting your pants, then accept how you are and work from there on. Enduring withdrawal builds character. Live with your mother or family, always have someone around, go for plenty of walks, don't be alone, etc, if you want to combat psychosis. Try to think straight, instead of fucking yourself up with drugs. Don't withdraw with your family, the first few days when the drug is really out of your system. Change environment afterwards.


If you really want a fucked up solution, do some 4F-MPH with GHB for a week or two with 8 hour pause per day. If it doesn't make you crazy by itself, nor super-addicted to those drugs, it will burn out whatever it is, that psychosis feeds on.


Don't do Phenibut, its a GABA-A drug. GHB and baclofen are GABA-B drugs, zero cross tolerance to benzos. Though obviously, they will cause very similar withdrawal symptoms on the long run.

Don't do BDNF drugs or any of that shit. Psychosis is not a matter of neurotransmitters, that's foolish nonsense. Schizophrenic psychosis is simply the end-result of a disturbed mind, accompanied by nonsensical beliefs and perceptions. ANY drug that will disturb your neurology further, will worsen psychosis. Including drugs, which are by effect calming you down from it for a short while (alcohol, benzos, baclofen, etc.).

A reminder: ANY theory that links neurotransmitters to schizophrenic psychosis is BULLSHIT. Remember that: BULLSHIT and nothing more than that.

But the 4F-MPH + GHB combo can work. Its like putting out a forest fire with napalm, while being drunk and laughing like a madman.

I didn't tag your post anything, I'm interested in the idea that psychosis or schizophrenia is not based in neurotransmitters. I wonder, then what is it based in? You said a disturbed mind but I assume you don't mean psychology because this sort of thinking clearly didn't work out well in the 20th century.

 

If you believe that psychosis or schizophrenia is caused by brain structure abnormalities or something alike, which makes it unable to be treated with pharmacological approaches like antipsychotics (even if we assumed new drugs were developed for never neurotransmitter models), then why is remission from psychosis and schizophrenia, through medication and by supposed chance, possible? Why are there days where the individual completely or partially recovers.

As I've said many times before, I've never heard of a mentally retarded person, whose low intelligence is due to a brain structure defect, suddenly finds himself with a completely normal or above normal intelligence one day.

 

[Ark]

If you want some relief consider a combination of adoptogens and low side effect noots with exercise and meditation.

P.M. me if your interested in a suggested stack.

[Galaxyshock]

Add Panax Ginseng to your regimen and add it now.

 

It should be helpful for antipsychotic taper off, it has shown antipsychotic-like effects without harsh sides of pharmaceuticals. Ginseng has affinity at NMDA, Dopamine, Serotonin, GABA receptors and seems to be a partial kappa-antagonist on top that.

 

Efficacy Study of Panax Ginseng to Boost Antipsychotics Effects in Schizophrenia

 

Short-term improvement in visual memory by a proprietary North American ginseng extract in stable schizophrenia

 

Effect of Ginsenosides on Memory Retention of Rats in Animal Models of Schizophrenia

 

Several pharmacological properties have been reported for ginsenosides or ginseng, including
effects on the central nervous system, tranquilizing and antipsychotic actions

 

Ginseng has massive range of beneficial effects. In fact, there's a whole journal dedicated to it:

http://www.ginsengres.org/