17 replies to this topic

[Catwoman]

It's not something which keeps me from work of just living, but I'm getting them frequently: (small) shocks, zaps or twitches in my legs and sometimes in one of my shoulders, ankles or hands. 

This started 8 years ago, around the same time I started taking Luvox (for Pure O). I get enough sleep and I'm not anxious or tense during day time. I do feel depressed on and off because of my battle with intrusive / stuck thoughts. 
I'm also tapering from Lexapro (escitalopram) because of tolerance and I didn't want to switch to another drug. I'm doing this very slowly. I get the impression that they are getting worse now I'm reaching zero mg (I take 2,5 mg a day for about 4 weeks now). 

The zaps occur while I'm sitting down (upper legs), but also when I'm meditating or just lying down on my back relaxing or reading. One zap can follow to another one quickly, but I'm not shaking for minutes ;-)
For example: I'm lying down and one of my lower legs suddenly twitches and gives my lower body a firm pull.
Or when I'm just writing this I feel one of my elbows pulling back for just a moment. When I'm almost falling asleep my whole body gets a big shock.
It's not frightening to me, but I'm just wondering if there's any explanation. 

I'm in good shape, not overweight, I get enough sleep, run a few times a week and eating healthy. Those twitchy eyelids...used to have them as a teenager, but the current zaps are not the same (and I'm not super tired).
Started taking some standard supplements a few months ago (omega 3, magnesium 300 mg a day, vit B complex and vit D3). 

I always figured the zaps were from the SSRI use. Or can it say something about a deficiency in minerals or vitamins?Or does the Lexapro deplete certain substances?

It's not my intention to find a supplement or cure for the zaps. I do hope that it won't get worse....

Thanks!

ps. I know about the 'famous' brain zaps from withdrawing from venlafaxine (Effexor) and similar psych drugs. Luckily I don't experience these.
 

[Junk Master]

Good question.

 

I'm getting them while tapering from a low dose of Phenibut, but only when I'm sleep deprived.  Which, unfortunately, is most of the time since I have insomnia and sleep apnea.

 

 

[Junk Master]

Also, I never had brain zaps or any muscle zaps/twitching when withdrawing cold turkey from Lexapro, Effexor, or Pristiq.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Antidepressants: Get tips to cope with side effects

By Mayo Clinic Staff

Antidepressants can cause unpleasant side effects. Symptoms such as nervousness, headache and upset stomach are common initially. For many people, these improve within a few weeks of starting an antidepressant. In some cases, however, antidepressants cause side effects that don't go away.

 

http://www.mayoclini...ts/art-20049305

[gamesguru]

minor transient fasciculations are quite common. i get them in random muscles, like my shoulder will suddenly give off this very rapid pulsation. like paresthesia, it is typically benign. unless in my case, it is due to exploding arteries, a process which no doubt has extensively affected my brain as well.

 

and according to the ultimate source of fact-checked information, medications (many of which were mentioned above) have the potentiality to amplify this process. although in my case a healthy diet and active lifestyle seem to have cut them down to less about once every three weeks? i hardly notice them. but idk, who's keeping track?

[Catwoman]

 

Antidepressants: Get tips to cope with side effects

By Mayo Clinic Staff

Antidepressants can cause unpleasant side effects. Symptoms such as nervousness, headache and upset stomach are common initially. For many people, these improve within a few weeks of starting an antidepressant. In some cases, however, antidepressants cause side effects that don't go away.

 

http://www.mayoclini...ts/art-20049305

 

Thanks ;-) Fortunately I never had to deal with the side effects they mention. The muscle twitches seem like a side effect (I was just very curious which process in the brain is causing them) and on higher dosages I used to gnaw my teeth or lock my jaws. I also have very vivid dreams. Another thing...Escitalopram messed with my menstrual cycle (very irregular).
I'm wondering how next week (when I'm planning on stopping escitalopram) will be like. I guess the second week I will have to deal with some more withdrawal problems, even though I'm already on such a lose dose for a while.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

If your looking for something on the safer side:

Hydroxyzine

http://mentalhealthd...iety-disorders/

Adjunct: Hydroxyzine is an antihistaminergic anxiolytic that can be prescribed as an adjunct to many other psychiatric medications, including SSRIs.  Some may prefer hydroxyzine over other adjunct options due to: its distinct pharmacodynamics (from other agents), based on the fact that it doesn’t cancel out the therapeutic effects of other drugs, and its low propensity for abuse.  Furthermore, animal studies suggest that when a benzodiazepine is administered with an SSRI, learned helplessness increases.

 

On the other hand, when hydroxyzine is administered with an SSRI, a reversal of learned helplessness is maintained (as induced by the SSRI).  This suggests that hydroxyzine may be a superior complementary option to benzodiazepines for SSRI users.  Additionally, it may potentiate therapeutic alterations in monoamine levels throughout the brain to bolster anxiolytic effects.

 

When considering any agent as a potential adjunct for psychiatric conditions, a low propensity for abuse, addiction, dependence, and toxicity is necessary.  Most professionals consider hydroxyzine safer than benzodiazepines with fewer potential deleterious effects.  Therefore, it may be a favorable adjunct anxiolytic to many other medications.

Anxiety subtypes: Individuals with specific subtypes of anxiety may not respond to standard first-line neuropsychiatric interventions.  Many people test every SSRI and not only find that their anxiety doesn’t improve, but in some cases, it’s exacerbated.  Emerging evidence supports the idea that SSRIs may worsen some cases of anxiety due to the fact that certain anxious subtypes may manifest from too much serotonin (or high serotonin in specific neural regions).

 

If you’re an individual that doesn’t respond to standardized treatments (e.g. SSRIs), and have gone through the ringer of first-line medications only to feel miserable, you may derive benefit from hydroxyzine.  Although no anxiolytic medication can be considered a panacea intervention, for certain individuals, hydroxyzine may be their “magic bullet” or one of a few medications that actually works.  Others may find that hydroxyzine isn’t a perfect anxiolytic, but it works better than all other interventions that they’ve tried.

 

Research suggests that individuals with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and/or anxiety as induced by a medical condition may benefit from hydroxyzine.  Since hydroxyzine downregulates activity in subcortical regions of the brain, those with anxiety provoked by subcortical abnormalities may derive significant benefit from this medication.  Additionally, those with anxiety as a result of poor slow wave sleep may benefit significantly from hydroxyzine’s 5-HT2A antagonism.

 

Lexapro withdrawl forum:

http://www.neurotalk...p/t-202690.html

 

[Catwoman]

Thanks Mr. Psychillogical!

I've been looking for new treatments for Pure O but can't really decide yet on supplements. There have been moments when I just didn't know what to do (so I did nothing) and thought about asking my doctor for something like clomipramine (TCA).
Still not something one would like to use for the long term, but OK...I'm leaning towards the serotonergic supplements now, because I've responded well to SSRI's before. Helped me a lot and made the intrusive thought(s) go away after a few weeks. Maybe a supplement could help me as well.

Hydroxine sounds interesting. I don't feel anxious during day time, but I do feel like I need to get rid of the intrusion(s) I'm dealing with. Most of the time it's just one. I'm used to having it, so it makes me more sad and depressed than anxious.
I worry about it though..."why doesn't it go away, why do I have it all the time, does it ever end?"
Fortunately therapy helped a lot, so most of the time I manage to stop the excessive worrying and ruminating.

I'm don't have any allergies, so I have no idea how I would react to anti-histamine medication.

Edited by Catwoman, 19 August 2016 - 10:04 AM.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

You are most welcome!

5 HTP is a pretty decent serotonin supplement as is Tryptophan. Both serotonin precursors. 

Medication wise, I've had decent success with buspar and mirtazapine.

 

 

[Catwoman]

You are most welcome!

5 HTP is a pretty decent serotonin supplement as is Tryptophan. Both serotonin precursors. 

Medication wise, I've had decent success with buspar and mirtazapine.

Thanks for replying again.

Looked into the TCA's like mirtazapine and clomipramine. Seems like a 'kill or cure' remedy? I'm not sure if this is the right expression (In Dutch we call it a 'paardenmiddel' which would say something about the drug as 'as strong as a horse').
Like very effective, but with side effects that not every one can tolerate? TCA's are less selective right?
On the other hand, I might go back (as a last resort though) to fluvoxamine, because I had such positive results (till the point it pooped out anyway).

I will probably try either 5htp or tryptohan. My sleep is good so I don't see why I need tryptophan.
But we'll see, this is my last day on 2,5 mg of escitalopram. Who know's when hell will break loose ;-)


 

[Catwoman]

Hell didn't break loose just yet :-)

I don't feel motivated for work though, but I'm doing great with running. Physically I feel fine. 

The muscle spasms aren't that frequent anymore.
I've read that people with low magnesium levels can have muscle spasms, jerky muscle movements and muscle weakness.
Wondering if the escitalopram can be linked to low magnesium then. 

I take 150 to 300 mg of of magnesium bisglycinate (from chelate) a day for about a week now. Before I took the same but then with taurine for about 4 weeks, didn't notice anything different 'Pure O-wise' and also had the twitches and spasms. I stopped for a few weeks and bought a new bottle last week. 

Maybe I overthink this too much   

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Give Magnesium L-threonate a shot! = ) It's supposed to have greater Blood-brain-barrier penetration than others, and hence it has mild NMDA-antagonising properties - could be pretty beneficial.

 

On another note - I've noticed these muscle spasms slightly when titrating up SSRI's, and slightly less when titrating down as well. The substance which REALLY put the muscle-spasming and strange phenomena into overdrive though, is BUPROPION (voxra, wellbutrin).

 

They really start affecting you on that drug! 0_o The quality of them seems a bit different though, as if there are different muscle-groups acting up... seems to be related to the anti -nicotinergic acetylcholine -receptor effects of Bupropion - may have to do with the M1 -receptors being involved in Nicotinic receptor firing in periferal muscle-tissue - the nAch-receptors are in essence shut down, but the Muscarinics tell them to OPEN FIRE, hence a very strange, jerky sort of muscular movement.

[Catwoman]

Thanks for the background information on buproprion, Stinkorninjor. 

Never heard of that form of magnesium, but from newer research we know that NMDA receptors can be linked to ocd, so that might be worth trying out.
This was my first search result with Google though:

http://www.longecity...n-sulfate-form/
Will look into it later ;-)

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Thanks for the background information on buproprion, Stinkorninjor. 

Never heard of that form of magnesium, but from newer research we know that NMDA receptors can be linked to ocd, so that might be worth trying out.
This was my first search result with Google though:

http://www.longecity...n-sulfate-form/
Will look into it later ;-)

 

 

That thread is like 4 years old, after the OP, ScienceGuy, posted, newer evidence had been published, which showed that he had made some ERRORS in his hypothesizing. ; )

 

But, what are you gonna' do? When there's no data, there's no data. Nowadays though, we know that M-L-Threonate is the bees-knees - it wasn't as clear-cut back in the day though. Have a check at the last post, and you'll get a quick rundown of the newest data.

[Test-200]

Lexapro commonly causes the zaps when tapering off, not sure what would cause them at a steady dose.


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[Catwoman]

 

Thanks for the background information on buproprion, Stinkorninjor. 

Never heard of that form of magnesium, but from newer research we know that NMDA receptors can be linked to ocd, so that might be worth trying out.
This was my first search result with Google though:

http://www.longecity...n-sulfate-form/
Will look into it later ;-)

 

 

That thread is like 4 years old, after the OP, ScienceGuy, posted, newer evidence had been published, which showed that he had made some ERRORS in his hypothesizing. ; )

 

But, what are you gonna' do? When there's no data, there's no data. Nowadays though, we know that M-L-Threonate is the bees-knees - it wasn't as clear-cut back in the day though. Have a check at the last post, and you'll get a quick rundown of the newest data.

 

I'll stick with the Magnesium bisglycinate for now :-) But thanks for looking up the newer info!

@Test-200, I had them on a steady dose, but not as much as when tapering.
Now that I've been off Lexapro for a few days it seems I don't get them that frequent anymore.

I do feel quite depressed (yay....) and stuck in that vicious  circle once again...Magnesium or any other vitamines / fish oils I'm taking do not have any effect on my mood or Pure O....

[Catwoman]

Update: I've been off Lexapro for about 5 weeks now and the twitches and zaps are almost completely gone.

But something interesting happened last night:

I was listening to my yoga nidra session (just before sleeping) and every time I drifted off I had a big zap in one of my shoulders or one of my legs.
Really weird because I thought they were from withdrawal. 

I'm about the order the Magnesium L-Threonate / Magtein. Now that I looked longer into it, it seems the only magnesium that crosses the blood brain barrier. 

[Doc Psychoillogical]

try L-theanine w/ mag and taurine, to eliminate zaps/convulsions.... increasing Gaba maybe be your best friend