955 replies to this topic

[Jaris]

I've seen even lower prices, so I'm not surprised. Many online pharmacies way overcharge. As mentioned before, this Canadian site has pills from India (Rapacan) for $3.59 a pill: https://www.canadaph...me=Rapamune2555

I have yet another source that's $3 a pill (Rapacan mfg by Biocon), but it's a small biz in India that takes orders on Reddit. In other words, maybe a bit more risk. So I think we have plenty of inexpensive sources. I'm still tracking down an inexpensive testing lab in the US.

Edited by Jaris, 13 January 2017 - 05:30 AM.

[malbecman]

It looks like one can analyze sirolimus via LC-MS (eg, it does ionize via electrospray ionization) which is good news.   An accurate mass instrument would verify that you have the molecule but its not a guarantee of purity.   For that, you'd likely also want a LC-UV run at a non-specific wavelength like 220nm.
 
 
 

Rapacan is Sirolimus manufactured by Biocon (India).  Rapimune is Sirolimus manufactured by Wyeth (India).  And Rocas Sirolimus is marketed by Emcure Pharmaceuticals, India and manufactured by Swiss Garnier Life Sciences in India.[/size]

 
This price is the best I've seen, so low I would be suspicious but for the fact that I trust and respect you, and you trust your source, who recommends this trusted source,  so I am sure it is good.  But can we verify?  Can I get it tested [/size]by a mass spectrometer for you?

Edited by Michael, 30 June 2017 - 10:21 PM.

[Jaris]

I would like someone to test Rapacan (Biocon) pills from India. Can anyone one here do it or refer me to a lab - or someone trustworthy who can do it?

[aribadabar]

 ....Everolimus - a cousin of Sirolimus that's owned by Pfizer.

.....

9 supplements daily to support it.

 

 

I think the cousin is owned by Novartis.

 

Would you share those 9 supplements ?

Edited by aribadabar, 14 January 2017 - 03:12 AM.

[aribadabar]

 If one's CYP enzymes are inefficient due to a common genetic SNP variant, or depressed due to use of various phytochemicals, one might want to consider a longer interval between doses.

 

Would you mention which specific SNPs you are referring to?

 

Thanks!

[maxwatt]

The rs2740574(G) allele encodes a variant form of CYP3A4 which is involved in the metabolism if rapamycin, cyclosporine and other drugs.
 

[Jaris]

 

 ....Everolimus - a cousin of Sirolimus that's owned by Pfizer.

.....

9 supplements daily to support it.

 

 

I think the cousin is owned by Novartis.

 

Would you share those 9 supplements ?

 

Sure. I posted most this a month or so ago. I'm open to suggestions.

(Some of the following is probably not supported  by studies, but is also not too far fetched.)

 

Liposomal Glutathion

Cleanses the brain at the cellular level. Antioxidant and detoxification functions. The liposomal delivery system bypasses the digestive process and its payload is instead directly absorbed.

 

Nicotinamide Riboside

Optimizes NAD+ levels and sirtuin function in cells to support their most critical metabolic processes like cellular detoxification, DNA repair and energy production.

 

Hydroxycitric Acid (HCA) 

Protects mitochondria & reduces inflammation.

 

PQQ

Activates cell signaling pathways that have the potential to reverse cellular aging.

Promotes growth of new mitochondria within aging cells, up-regulates cellular metabolism, protects neurons, and repairs DNA.

 

QH

The reduced, active, antioxidant form of Co-Q10, which is significantly better absorbed than ubiquinol.

PQQ along with QH promotes the creation of new mitochondria, a process known as mitochondrial bio-genesis. Supports both heart health and cognitive function.

 

Those are the important ones, but also:

D3

Krill Oil

Niacin (B3)  I just added this, because: "... the team fed fruit flies with the mutated PINK1 gene food supplemented with niacin, which is made into NAD inside the body. With this extra source of NAD, the flies had far fewer faulty mitochondria than their mutant peers on a regular diet."  https://www.scienced...70110092059.htm

Edited by Jaris, 14 January 2017 - 05:27 AM.

[Jaris]

"Niacin (B3)  I just added this, because: "... the team fed fruit flies with the mutated PINK1 gene food supplemented with niacin, which is made into NAD inside the body. With this extra source of NAD, the flies had far fewer faulty mitochondria than their mutant peers on a regular diet."  https://www.scienced...70110092059.htm"

 

Just remove this - I didn't like what other studies discovered about Niacin supplements. I'll boost my B3 through diet instead.

 

Edited by Jaris, 15 January 2017 - 08:21 PM.

[FrankT.Hippo]

"Niacin (B3)  I just added this, because: "... the team fed fruit flies with the mutated PINK1 gene food supplemented with niacin, which is made into NAD inside the body. With this extra source of NAD, the flies had far fewer faulty mitochondria than their mutant peers on a regular diet."  https://www.scienced...70110092059.htm"

 

Just remove this - I didn't like what other studies discovered about Niacin supplements. I'll boost my B3 through diet instead.

 

Better to get it as nicotinamide riboside, which you are taking: https://clinicaltria...e&Search=Search

 

[to age or not to age]

OK, I have received rapamycin from the canadian pharmacy, two weeks after the prescription was approved. 100 1 mg tablets for 349.

[tintinet]

Shipping included?

[to age or not to age]

yes tintinet , including shipping.  It's pretty clear from the packaging, enclosed materials etc that this is a legitimate source. Now, as to what it does to humans.....we shall see

[Hip]

60% increase in lifespan from rapamycin? If that translates to humans, it may just mean you extend your old age, so you get a few more geriatric decades spent ambling around in your zimmer frame. 

 

Now if someone could find a substance that extends the lifespan of your body in its optimum state in your 20s, so that you have all the vigor and young looks of a 20 year old when you are 50, now that would be interesting. 

[DareDevil]

Now if someone could find a substance that extends the lifespan of your body in its optimum state in your 20s, so that you have all the vigor and young looks of a 20 year old when you are 50, now that would be interesting. 

Hi Hip,

 

This is the main residual bone of contention in anti-aging medication. Many of us don't want to wheeze several decades longer in a feeble state of degradation, merely extending our decline. Most of us wish to turn back the dial of time. This can be considered at least partly achievable by Tolomere repair using substances such as Epitalon. However we must realize that our appearance may not completely match our condition. This is due to several reasons:

 

- gravity has acted upon our tissues, causing some of them to stretch and "dangle"

- skin laxity is often hard to reverse even among a young population

 

This means that although you've rebecome young, your body tissues may still be distorted when compared to their original youthful condition. You may have tendons that have extended and which don't contract back to their earlier shorter length. Facial muscles may be more loosely attached to underlying tissues causing your face to sag. Skin anywhere on your body may wrinkle once fat or water retention subsides leaving it loose over a less voluminous enveloppe. 

 

So you may actually in fact become younger but still seem at least partially old, due to wrinkles and telltale signs of having spend many years walking about in a gravitational field.

 

For what it's worth

 

DareDevil

[Hip]

Thanks for your response DareDevil

 

I guess I would not mind a few wrinkles and sagging of aging, provided that mentally and energetically I remained young. That seems far more important; after all, if you feel like a decrepit elderly person, but look 25, what's the use of that?

[DareDevil]

Hi Hip,

 

There are ways to "shore up" sagging flesh and to tighten loose skin, but these are in the realm of cosmetic intervention using a variety of technologies. They range from the rapid but brutal interventions of plastic surgery to less intrusive methods using a variety of methods and instruments to reshape the body. Korea is a leader innovating in this realm but most such instruments are today manufactured in China. For loose skin Velashape, now in its 4th iteration, comes to mind, as does Ulthera also sold generically as HiFu. There are also CO2 fractional laser, chemical peels, injectable fillers based on Hyaluronic acid to plump up and put volume behind loose skin, and a battalion of cosmetic creams and dietary supplements all of which purport to help make one's tissues younger.

 

Like you said, it is better to actually be younger than merely look younger. But if you can swing both, why not? The hardest to accomplish is actually reversing the aging process. We are well on our path to this and should be grateful that we are among the very few who are fortunate enough to live in such exceptional times.

 

DareDevil

[Hip]

In fact, DareDevil, I am skeptical that current ways of thinking and approaching the postponement of aging will be fruitful. 

 

I tend to think that much of the deterioration and dysfunction in the body comes not from the usually investigated mechanisms of aging (eg, oxidation, DNA damage, telomere shortening, etc), but from the toll that infectious pathogens inflict on the body, as we accumulate these through life. Pathogens can cause dysfunction by many mechanisms: they can ramp up damaging inflammation; they may trigger autoimmunity; they can infect and kill cells either directly, or from the immune attack on the infected cells.  

 

 

Edited by Hip, 21 January 2017 - 05:29 AM.

[DareDevil]

I tend to think that much of the deterioration and dysfunction in the body comes not from the usually investigated mechanisms of aging (eg, oxidation, DNA damage, telomere shortening, etc), but from the toll that infectious pathogens inflict on the body, as we accumulate these through life. 

 

Would you be inclined to reduce age-induced disease with immune system boosters such as the injectable Selenium branded as Kynoselen? 

 

http://mindandmuscle...cles/kynoselen/

 

 

And do you see hope in the preventative use of broadband anti-retroviral drugs such as those for AIDS prevention, Emtricitabine and Tenofovir?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...anism_of_action

 

 

While you may have the end word and hold the truth of the matter, I tend to agree that our aged condition is impacted by harmful infections but that our resistance to them is something we can possibly address chemically with current research efforts. How effective our latest solutions are is where we fall short, most people finding limited results when using a variety of drugs and supplements. There are many mirages out there, among them surely some may hold greater promise?

 

 

DareDevil

[waverock]

 Arlan Richardson PHD , take a look at him in this video of 2013, then look at him in the video from 2011. I'm sure he's on it. good video, explains all that you need to know.

 

 

 

[Jaris]

This topic seems to have veered off-course a bit. I think it used to be about experimenting with Rapamycin? If nobody else cares, that's fine, but I see other topics die out when this happens. I, personally, would like to keep this topic flowing with helpful tips and updates for Rapamycin experimentalists. If you want to start a topic about looking fabulous when you hit 160, that might be a popular conversation. I'm not really interested though.

Edited by Jaris, 21 January 2017 - 08:59 PM.

[zorba990]

Arlan Richardson PHD , take a look at him in this video of 2013, then look at him in the video from 2011. I'm sure he's on it. good video, explains all that you need to know.



https://www.youtube....h?v=RBiBtaxmDNQ

He looks like he lost weight, but did not maintain muscle mass or integrity of fast growing tissue (skin looks worse) . Loss of muscle mass and depressed immunity are some scary side effects, so I would want some evidence that exercise or other strategies could mitigate those issues. I guess longecity members are willing to try it so we will see....his hairline looks lower, but it could be the lighting or style comparing that video to this
http://www.ouhsc.edu.../OurPeople.aspx

Edited by zorba990, 21 January 2017 - 09:13 PM.

[tintinet]

Rapamycin ordered and reportedly shipped.

[Jaris]

In fact, DareDevil, I am skeptical that current ways of thinking and approaching the postponement of aging will be fruitful. 

 

I tend to think that much of the deterioration and dysfunction in the body comes not from the usually investigated mechanisms of aging (eg, oxidation, DNA damage, telomere shortening, etc), but from the toll that infectious pathogens inflict on the body, as we accumulate these through life. Pathogens can cause dysfunction by many mechanisms: they can ramp up damaging inflammation; they may trigger autoimmunity; they can infect and kill cells either directly, or from the immune attack on the infected cells.  

I will just point out that a recent study on elderly humans measured their response to a flu vaccine. Those taking the rapalog Everolimus had a better response. Not a definitive answer to the points you bring up, but it's a start.

Also, I think that Rapamycin is a step or two beyond "current ways of thinking". 

[DareDevil]

Sorry for veering off track. You are right to defend the topic of this thread which is a vital link to research in this area.

 

After testing Epitalon with TB500 and now Dasatinib with Quercetin I shall soon be joining you in trying Rapamycin.

 

DD

[Jaris]

No problem, DD.

Starting 3rd week. Nothing to report, which is a good thing; no side effects. Probably way too early to see positive results.

I still would like to test for purity.

[mrkosh1]

One of the downsides of rapamycin is that it can activate myrostatin. What I find interesting is that sulforaphane inhibits myrostatin, at least in pigs.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23092945

 

However, sulforaphane still activates AMPK and NRF2. This would provide some of the same autophagy, mitochondrial, and antioxidant benefits.

 

So these questions come to mind.

 

1) Which is the most potent substance at inducing AMPK, sulforaphane or rapamycin?

 

2) If rapamycin is the most potent substance at inducing AMPK, is there a drawback to blocking myrostatin at the same time?

 

3) Other than supplementing sulforaphane at the same time, are there any other strategies to block the increase in myrostatin from rapamycin?

 

 

 

[Valijon]

Myostatin the word is myostatin. Myo means muscle and statin is a blocker or inhibitor.

[waverock]

[Jaris]

Thanks, waverock. It's always good to be aware of potential side effects. Here's a video that was released about a year ago that collects tons of studies about MTOR inhibitors and makes sense of them. As he says several times, lower doses and intermittent use has the opposite effect (in particular on immunity) as high, prolonged dosing. The video is long - almost an hour - and it's all very good. But if you want to skip ahead to his main conclusions, it really gets interesting 47 minutes in: 

Interestingly (to me at least) he starts out talking about Lyme Disease. What does that have to do with aging? It's all linked together, as I can demonstrate by sharing a brief version of my own story. About ten years ago, just before I turned 50, I discovered a tick between my toes, and it had been there for several hours. A month or so later, I noticed a circular rash on that leg. Convinced that I had Lyme, I got tested, which came back negative. Only years later, I learned that the test that most US doctors perform is useless. Two years later, i began having very early symptoms of Parkinson's.

Recently I saw a study which showed that the brain's normal response to serious infections (Lyme bacteria can invade the brain) can cause the mis-folded proteins that triggers Parkinson's (and AD). After that, it's a cascade effect. 8 years into it, i'm learning about Rapamycin, and I'm hoping that it can trigger the autophagy cleanup that's needed. Anti-aging is just a happy possibility for me, not my immediate goal.

Edited by Jaris, 23 January 2017 - 08:49 PM.

[tintinet]

1. The challenge appears to be optimizing the dose.

2. Decreased anxiety and depression would be nearly as good as life extension since I spend way too much time in both states.

3. Thought I might have have a tick bite and risk of Lyme disease some years ago. I skipped testing and took docyciline for a few weeks just in case. I'm tempted to take doxycycline intermittently just to reduce inflammation and clear out any potential lingering infections.

Edited by tintinet, 24 January 2017 - 01:14 AM.